Explain how Trump has so much support (2 Viewers)

[Bayouboy]

I would like some layman answers to the question "How does Trump have so much support, right now"? The final two word are important context.

I somewhat understand how he became a "force" prior to the 2016 election. There were many factors that allowed him to gain steam. Anti-establishment and not being a true politician was a big turn on to some voters on the right at the time. He talked a good game and somehow found a way to the Presidency despite acting "unpresidential". Trump's time in office had some victories for the Republicans and the economy was humming prior to COVID.....but the shirt show that happened on a daily basis with him firing executive staff (that didn't agree with him) and the overall chaos that was the White House certainly should've had an effect on his supporters. This was all BEFORE losing the 2020 election and what ensued. What happened after the 2020 election is well documented and, in my opinion, should have buried him as a candidate for office for eternity.

With ALL of what happened since the 2020 election, how can he still have half of the country (give or take) as supporters? Had all the election denying, countless gaffs, and the attempt to circumvent the Constitution had not occurred and had he regrouped and formed a strategy to compete in 2024, I could see a lot of his supporters continuing to follow him and his message. But I can't get how so many Americans can overlook what happened in front of their own eyes. I am truly bewildered.

I realize this is a mostly left leaning community, so maybe you folks do not have a clue either but would like to hear opinions. Especially, if you still support Trump through all of the mess.

 

[TampaJoe]

So now our basis on whether or not a president is good is whether or not the country actually survives after his presidency?

Feels like a pretty low bar.

And what does “survives” mean? Like, if we come out on the other side with a quasi-autocracy that has “elections” like Russia, does that mean we “survived”?


You keep acting like voting third party somehow makes you above partisan politics.

It doesn’t. It just makes you a tool for taking away votes from the better option.

Your choice is largely inconsequential in south Louisiana, that’s true.

If you lived in Pennsylvania, who would you have voted for? Bet you don’t answer.

And it’s because your vote did third party isn’t some enlightened vote against the system.

It’s cowardice.

I think the basis for any hiring decision is to vote for the candidate you believe is both qualified for the position and whom you believe will best benefit the country.

Personally, I dont believe in voting against a candidate. Your mileage may vary. A vote is an affirmation of support. If neither candidate has my support because I dont believe they are qualified or I dont believe they will take the country in the right direction, they dont get my vote by default because he/she is marginally better than their opponent.

You may have a different calculus/philosophy.

We should have better choices for the most important job in th free world. It shouldnt come down to a choice of the best of the worst.

Again. My opinion.

 

[Infoman]

So now our basis on whether or not a president is good is whether or not the country actually survives after his presidency?

Feels like a pretty low bar.

And what does “survives” mean? Like, if we come out on the other side with a quasi-autocracy that has “elections” like Russia, does that mean we “survived”?


You keep acting like voting third party somehow makes you above partisan politics.

It doesn’t. It just makes you a tool for taking away votes from the better option.

Your choice is largely inconsequential in south Louisiana, that’s true.

If you lived in Pennsylvania, who would you have voted for? Bet you don’t answer.

And it’s because your vote did third party isn’t some enlightened vote against the system.

It’s cowardice.

A few things... I didn't place the bar, the bar was already low... I want a higher one... The current status quo doesn't provide for that.

Survive means we have another election in 2 years and 4 years like we always do... some things will happen that I don't agree with... just like they always do.

I am not above anything... I strive to be beyond partisan politics... as we all should.

Better options is a point of view... my view is that all current options are shirt.

I would still vote 3rd party... any vote for a current 2 party candidate is a vote for the current failing system of divisionary oppression.

I don't claim to be enlightened like the ideological zombie crews do... I just want a fair and sane system, and I have the courage to not bow to either current system out of some misguided sense of duty to the hilarious notion of the lesser of two evils.

Also, since I am comfortable in my own skin, and don't feel the need to belong to a group to qualify my thoughts, stances, or opinions... that in itself... takes a measure of courage in today's world... being labeled a coward by a group of people that systematically follow party tag lines as opposed to bucking them in an effort to change the status quo / endless cycle of nothing changing (the definition of insanity)... Is a badge I will wear proudly... considering the source.

 

[DaveXA]

A few things... I didn't place the bar, the bar was already low... I want a higher one... The current status quo doesn't provide for that.

Survive means we have another election in 2 years and 4 years like we always do... some things will happen that I don't agree with... just like they always do.

I am not above anything... I strive to be beyond partisan politics... as we all should.

Better options is a point of view... my view is that all current options are shirt.

I would still vote 3rd party... any vote for a current 2 party candidate is a vote for the current failing system of divisionary oppression.

I don't claim to be enlightened like the ideological zombie crews do... I just want a fair and sane system, and I have the courage to not bow to either current system out of some misguided sense of duty to the hilarious notion of the lesser of two evils.

Also, since I am comfortable in my own skin, and don't feel the need to belong to a group to qualify my thoughts, stances, or opinions... that in itself... takes a measure of courage in today's world... being labeled a coward by a group of people that systematically follow party tag lines as opposed to bucking them in an effort to change the status quo / endless cycle of nothing changing (the definition of insanity)... Is a badge I will wear proudly... considering the source.

Eh, doing whatever you want to do doesn't take any courage at all. It's actually the easiest option and path of least resistance.

 

[Infoman]

Eh, doing whatever you want to do doesn't take any courage at all. It's actually the easiest option and path of least resistance.

Dave... what makes you think this is something "I want to do"? My belief is... "This MUST be done at some point (soon) if the Republic is to survive long term".... I don't have political discussions (with F&F) more times than not because I stand on an island in most discussions and take strays from both sides... How is that easy? We've had enough discussions... you know me better. I pull no punches.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

Since you admit that you paid zero attention to Kamala's campaign, I'll just go ahead and assume the rest of your post is wrong as well.

That's usually a very good assumption.

 

[coldseat]

A few things... I didn't place the bar, the bar was already low... I want a higher one... The current status quo doesn't provide for that.

Survive means we have another election in 2 years and 4 years like we always do... some things will happen that I don't agree with... just like they always do.

I am not above anything... I strive to be beyond partisan politics... as we all should.

Better options is a point of view... my view is that all current options are shirt.

I would still vote 3rd party... any vote for a current 2 party candidate is a vote for the current failing system of divisionary oppression.

I don't claim to be enlightened like the ideological zombie crews do... I just want a fair and sane system, and I have the courage to not bow to either current system out of some misguided sense of duty to the hilarious notion of the lesser of two evils.

Also, since I am comfortable in my own skin, and don't feel the need to belong to a group to qualify my thoughts, stances, or opinions... that in itself... takes a measure of courage in today's world... being labeled a coward by a group of people that systematically follow party tag lines as opposed to bucking them in an effort to change the status quo / endless cycle of nothing changing (the definition of insanity)... Is a badge I will wear proudly... considering the source.

What were you main objections/points of consternation with the Biden/Harris administration and the laws they were able to pass in the first 2 years when they had control? Other than them being Democrats. Did you think they did anything well?

 

[J-DONK]

I've been listening to a lot of Ezra Klein in my post-election malaise.

He brings up a good point a couple of good points. The Obama coalition is dead. Democrats are losing the people they fundmentally say they represent. That's the working class. This should, and really must start an era of introspection.

Also things like being ok campaigning with the Cheney's, but not ok going on Joe Rogan. What does it say about you if you are comfortable with the Cheney's but not Joe Rogan?

I think at the end of the day the question on why Trump is popular. That is inversely asking Why are Democrats so unpopular?

The answer on some fundementally level is Democrats are out of touch with the middle class.

 

[coldseat]

I've been listening to a lot of Ezra Klein in my post-election malaise.

He brings up a good point a couple of good points. The Obama coalition is dead. Democrats are losing the people they fundmentally say they represent. That's the working class. This should, and really must start an era of introspection.

Also things like being ok campaigning with the Cheney's, but not ok going on Joe Rogan. What does it say about you if you are comfortable with the Cheney's but not Joe Rogan?

I think at the end of the day the question on why Trump is popular. That is inversely asking Why are Democrats so unpopular?

The answer on some fundementally level is Democrats are out of touch with the middle class.

Republican's are popular because the appeal to the electorates base fears and anxieties.

Democrats are unpopular because they appeal to the electorates virtues that we we have more in common than what separates us.

One is a more powerful pull than the other, especially when times are uncertain. And Republicans have worked very hard to make these times uncertain.

 

[Infoman]

Republican's are popular because the appeal to the electorates base fears and anxieties.

Democrats are unpopular because they appeal to the electorates virtues that we we have more in common than what separates us.

One is a more powerful pull than the other, especially when times are uncertain. And Republicans have worked very hard to make these times uncertain.

I was going to take the time and really work on a honest and genuine response to your last questions - but then you did this... And I realized you don't want to ask me a question, because you care about my point of view, or why I have the stance I have... You just want to refute my answers so you can tell me how "virtuous" your side is, and how I am wrong for not seeing it exactly that way.

That being the case.... I'm not going through that exercise...

FWIW... I voted Dem many times prior to the arrival of Trump, which is about the time they (REPs too) lost their collective minds... and I summarily decided then I was completely done with the two party system... I do think the Biden / Harris administration did accomplish some good things... I also think they did some things that lead directly to the election results from last week... But at this point, the way both parties behave and prioritize power over people as a general rule... make them both non-starts for me now, and going forward.

 

[coldseat]

I was going to take the time and really work on a honest and genuine response to your last questions - but then you did this... And I realized you don't want to ask me a question, because you care about my point of view, or why I have the stance I have... You just want to refute my answers so you can tell me how "virtuous" your side is, and how I am wrong for not seeing it exactly that way.

I based that response on the political messaging from the campaigns. The adds I saw from Democrats did point out the danger of another Trump administration, but there were just as many adds about bringing us together and moving on from the current animosity and negativity in our society, about making thing better for citizens. You also saw this reflected in Harris's stump speeches.

By contrast, the adds Republicans ran almost universally dealt with fear of migrant crime, fear of transgendered people, fear of liberals and democrats, how horrible the economy was, etc. Everything was negative and fear mongering. I can't think of one positive add that Republicans ran. This was also reflected in Trump's stump speeches.

I don't know how I'm supposed to see all of that throughout the whole campaign season and not come away with that opinion or perception.

That being the case.... I'm not going through that exercise...

Okay.

FWIW... I voted Dem many times prior to the arrival of Trump, which is about the time they (REPs too) lost their collective minds... and I summarily decided then I was completely done with the two party system... I do think the Biden / Harris administration did accomplish some good things... I also think they did some things that lead directly to the election results from last week... But at this point, the way both parties behave and prioritize power over people as a general rule... make them both non-starts for me now, and going forward.

You've expounded endlessly on your dislike of the 2-party system. No matter how much you want it, we don't have multiple viable parties now. But there was a clear choice to make in the last election. The two were not the same.

 

[Infoman]

You've expounded endlessly on your dislike of the 2-party system. No matter how much you want it, we don't have multiple viable parties now. But there was a clear choice to make in the last election. The two were not the same.

I never said they are exactly the same... They are both power driven, lying, gaslighting, talking loud but saying nothing shirt sacks... Just executed in very different ways... You say there was a clear choice... I say the choice was never really given to us.... I will continue to choose to be unburdened by what has been.... and put all my effort into what can be.... (yeah, I said it)

 

[Huntn]

I dont think most of his supporters really listen or pay attention to what he says and does. they like his hate and he is a showman for sure.

But such a terrible showman, it seems that hate Trumps talent.

 

[coldseat]

I never said they are exactly the same... They are both power driven, lying, gaslighting, talking loud but saying nothing shirt sacks... Just executed in very different ways... You say there was a clear choice... I say the choice was never really given to us.... I will continue to choose to be unburdened by what has been.... and put all my effort into what can be.... (yeah, I said it)

What are your top 3 lies or gaslighting from Democrats? I can make a list a mile long for Republicans, but I'm interested in what you see from Democrats because I'm just not seeing it. That just seems like something people say when they argue both sides rational.

 

[Huntn]

I've been listening to a lot of Ezra Klein in my post-election malaise.

He brings up a good point a couple of good points. The Obama coalition is dead. Democrats are losing the people they fundmentally say they represent. That's the working class. This should, and really must start an era of introspection.

Also things like being ok campaigning with the Cheney's, but not ok going on Joe Rogan. What does it say about you if you are comfortable with the Cheney's but not Joe Rogan?

I think at the end of the day the question on why Trump is popular. That is inversely asking Why are Democrats so unpopular?

The answer on some fundementally level is Democrats are out of touch with the middle class.

Look at what Democrats offer compared to MAGA (GOP is dead). The Left offers realistic solutions, the Right offers hate driven fantasy, they appeal to the dark side of human nature, just about every issue if framed that way. It’s not realistic for the Left to become like them without being them.

Look at the labor movement, it became a movement because management tends to take advantage of workers. This has not changed in the slightest. The working class who turned to MAGA want to believe their lies, that they are part of the country club, that their lives will be better under Right Wing management. This is a fantasy, and what is required now is severe dissapointment and pain. So be it, the sooner the better.

I’m retired, I started out a Republican, in the military, I voted for Reagan, got out of the military, joined a union, and saw exactly how management operates, “sorry we afford your decent pay and lifestyle benefits, Mama needs a third vacation home and has been eyeing a new yacht.” The working class requires unions for any significant say in their work environment. Trump, he’s hard core management, he’s the one who gave Corporations 100s of millions in tax relief, and as far as I can tell, gave nothing to the working class except appeal to their white privaledge. If the sheep are STUIPD, what can you do? Pain must be felt by the people who you want to see the light. Unfortunately it’s likely IMO that by the time the masses see the light, our democracy will be dismantled and it could easily require a couple of generations to recover, if ever.

 

[Huntn]

I never said they are exactly the same... They are both power driven, lying, gaslighting, talking loud but saying nothing shirt sacks... Just executed in very different ways... You say there was a clear choice... I say the choice was never really given to us.... I will continue to choose to be unburdened by what has been.... and put all my effort into what can be.... (yeah, I said it)

You really are saying they are the same, a calculated equivalence argument. Look at the messaging, they're nothing alike.

 

[DaveXA]

I never said they are exactly the same... They are both power driven, lying, gaslighting, talking loud but saying nothing shirt sacks... Just executed in very different ways... You say there was a clear choice... I say the choice was never really given to us.... I will continue to choose to be unburdened by what has been.... and put all my effort into what can be.... (yeah, I said it)

You chose to sit out. That's a choice whether you like it or not. But yes, the choice was clear and to characterize as anything else is disingenuous. There was a clear better option between the two choices. Sitting out was a cop out.

 

[J-DONK]

Look at what Democrats offer compared to MAGA (GOP is dead). The Left offers realistic solutions, the Right offers hate driven fantasy, they appeal to the dark side of human nature, just about every issue if framed that way. It’s not realistic for the Left to become like them without being them.

Look at the labor movement, it became a movement because management tends to take advantage of workers. This has not changed in the slightest. The working class who turned to MAGA want to believe their lies, that they are part of the country club, that their lives will be better under Right Wing management. This is a fantasy, and what is required now is severe dissapointment and pain. So be it, the sooner the better.

I’m retired, I started out a Republican, in the military, I voted for Reagan, got out of the military, joined a union, and saw exactly how management operates, “sorry we afford your decent pay and lifestyle benefits, Mama needs a third vacation home and has been eyeing a new yacht.” The working class requires unions for any significant say in their work environment. Trump, he’s hard core management, he’s the one who gave Corporations 100s of millions in tax relief, and as far as I can tell, gave nothing to the working class except appeal to their white privaledge. If the sheep are STUIPD, what can you do? Pain must be felt by the people who you want to see the light. Unfortunately it’s likely IMO that by the time the masses see the light, our democracy will be dismantled and it could easily require a couple of generations to recover, if ever.

The argument I've heard made is this:

Democrats don't actually offer anything aspirational any longer.

Conserativism is always about outgrouping. They argue illegal immigrants as the outgroup and the reason for everyone's ills.

Republicans will always have a easier sell.

They've got to find a way to bring the group wavering middle class voters back into the fold.

Also, Democrats have for some reason become exclusionary. I don't blame young white males for voting Republicans. They wouldn't be wrong in getting the feeling that "the left" doesn't like them.

 

[Infoman]

You chose to sit out. That's a choice whether you like it or not. But yes, the choice was clear and to characterize as anything else is disingenuous. There was a clear better option between the two choices. Sitting out was a cop out.

I don't sit out... I vote 3rd party... How you rationalize my vote is irrelevant... I exercised my rights.

Which "choice" (party) that uses power driven, lying, gaslighting, etc to farm votes... Because one Is clearly worse than the other... Is a point of view....

A point of view that has clearly and nearly evenly divided the entire USA... My point of view is that neither is acceptable, and I am done acting like it is.

In fact, so much of it has been done by both parties.... That's it's nearly impossible to decipher anything you initially hear from either as truth... and you are left to decide on your own predisposition to the subject... which is an insane way to have to choose anything.

Asking me to weigh which lies and fabrications are more dangerous to the fabric of our country.... Is like asking me if I prefer to be pushed out of a plane at 30,000 ft or a helicopter at 10,000 ft... I choose to stay on the ground, and I am going to try to convince as many people as I can to join me.