Explain how Trump has so much support (1 Viewer)

[Bayouboy]

I would like some layman answers to the question "How does Trump have so much support, right now"? The final two word are important context.

I somewhat understand how he became a "force" prior to the 2016 election. There were many factors that allowed him to gain steam. Anti-establishment and not being a true politician was a big turn on to some voters on the right at the time. He talked a good game and somehow found a way to the Presidency despite acting "unpresidential". Trump's time in office had some victories for the Republicans and the economy was humming prior to COVID.....but the shirt show that happened on a daily basis with him firing executive staff (that didn't agree with him) and the overall chaos that was the White House certainly should've had an effect on his supporters. This was all BEFORE losing the 2020 election and what ensued. What happened after the 2020 election is well documented and, in my opinion, should have buried him as a candidate for office for eternity.

With ALL of what happened since the 2020 election, how can he still have half of the country (give or take) as supporters? Had all the election denying, countless gaffs, and the attempt to circumvent the Constitution had not occurred and had he regrouped and formed a strategy to compete in 2024, I could see a lot of his supporters continuing to follow him and his message. But I can't get how so many Americans can overlook what happened in front of their own eyes. I am truly bewildered.

I realize this is a mostly left leaning community, so maybe you folks do not have a clue either but would like to hear opinions. Especially, if you still support Trump through all of the mess.

 

[DaveXA]

Human beings are emotional beings capable of rational thought. As long as we remain self-aware of that and of our emotions, we can make more rational than irrational choices. If we fool ourselves into believing we are rational beings, then we are going to make more irrational than rational choices. Also, suppressing or ignoring emotions leads to destructively irrational choices.

I'm not sure I agree that believing we are rational beings necessarily leads to making irrational choices. If anything, I tend to think it's actually the opposite. People who tend to think we are irrational beings tend to do irrational things because if we're irrational by nature, then we are excused for being irrational. It's some convoluted thinking though. Lol. And, it's sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

[UriUT]

Responding in general and not solely to you. I think we have got to stop repeating the lie that "perception is reality." That lie is contributing significantly to the individual and social emotional/mental health crisis in this country. That phrase is being used to slowly normalize the alarming rise in delusional and psychotic behavior.

Most people take it literally and don't understand the nuance behind the words. An individual may act on their perceptions as if they are real, but their perceptions do not alter or change the actual reality they are in. A person hallucinating will react to their hallucination as if it's real, but that does not make their hallucination reality.

It's an important distinction that we need to always be aware of and communicate. "Perception is reality" goes hand in hand with treating facts the same as opinions, and that not accepting facts is the same as disagreeing with an opinion.

Those are both examples of "defective or lost contact with reality" which is the literal definition of psychosis. We need less psychotic rhetoric and thinking, not more.

Definition of PSYCHOSIS

a serious mental illness (such as schizophrenia) characterized by defective or lost contact with reality often with hallucinations or delusions… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

In Jordan Peterson's interpretation of truth, dragons are real. Are lions predator? predators are real. Tigers are predators? so on and so on. So if lions, tigers, and bears are predators, and they're real...then...we can conclude: dragons are predators. Therefore dragons are real!!!

In such an inarticulate, absurd way, what I believe he's arguing is that symbolism/mythology/stories/fiction can create a truth that is real. (I may be giving him more credit than he deserves here...as listening to him makes my mind turn into pudding). For the birth of christ, richard dawkins may argue that it's not real...peterson won't touch that idea. Regardless, in Peterson's mind, it doesn't matter. The idea of the birth of christ is real, even if born out of lies. I fall back to the Watchmen when I listened to Peterson ramble on and on about dragons in defense of the story of jesus' birth. Ozimandias created a world based on a lie. In that Watchmen world, peace was achieved through the lie that Dr. Manhattan perpetrated a plan to destroy humanity. That's great in that story. However, let's examine the truth based on lies like N. Korea? Millions are starving, but the state's story is that N. Korea is the greatest in the world. Or how about the lie that Trump is a great businessman. The lie that he's a blue collar billionaire. Or the probability cone for a hurricane would affect alabama. And much worse, that masks aren't effective. Or all these rw polls that skew the polling average? Or the betting markets.

We may as well turn back time to the dark ages and rely on the unknown to guide our lives if we allow perception is reality. Ignore the enlightment. Ignore science. We didn't land on the moon. I believe tom nichols argue this in his criticism about the death of expertise. Reality then becomes what dear leader makes of it. Or in the managed democracy that is Russia, the multitude of conspiracies that cause their citizens not to have footing in objective truths.

"Perception is reality" is an intellectually lazy way raising the white flag. Declaring subservience to an authority. Texas! Your taxes for those non 1% top earners are higher than that of CA, but hey! Perception is reality. Let's ignore the following finding.

https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/texans-pay-more-taxes-than-californians-17400644.php?utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=referral

 

[bird]

Human beings are emotional beings capable of rational thought. As long as we remain self-aware of that and of our emotions, we can make more rational than irrational choices. If we fool ourselves into believing we are rational beings, then we are going to make more irrational than rational choices. Also, suppressing or ignoring emotions leads to destructively irrational choices.

Won’t argue that at all

 

[bird]

In Jordan Peterson's interpretation of truth, dragons are real. Are lions predator? predators are real. Tigers are predators? so on and so on. So if lions, tigers, and bears are predators, and they're real...then...we can conclude: dragons are predators. Therefore dragons are real!!!

In such an inarticulate, absurd way, what I believe he's arguing is that symbolism/mythology/stories/fiction can create a truth that is real. (I may be giving him more credit than he deserves here...as listening to him makes my mind turn into pudding). For the birth of christ, richard dawkins may argue that it's not real...peterson won't touch that idea. Regardless, in Peterson's mind, it doesn't matter. The idea of the birth of christ is real, even if born out of lies. I fall back to the Watchmen when I listened to Peterson ramble on and on about dragons in defense of the story of jesus' birth. Ozimandias created a world based on a lie. In that Watchmen world, peace was achieved through the lie that Dr. Manhattan perpetrated a plan to destroy humanity. That's great in that story. However, let's examine the truth based on lies like N. Korea? Millions are starving, but the state's story is that N. Korea is the greatest in the world. Or how about the lie that Trump is a great businessman. The lie that he's a blue collar billionaire. Or the probability cone for a hurricane would affect alabama. And much worse, that masks aren't effective. Or all these rw polls that skew the polling average? Or the betting markets.

We may as well turn back time to the dark ages and rely on the unknown to guide our lives if we allow perception is reality. Ignore the enlightment. Ignore science. We didn't land on the moon. I believe tom nichols argue this in his criticism about the death of expertise. Reality then becomes what dear leader makes of it. Or in the managed democracy that is Russia, the multitude of conspiracies that cause their citizens not to have footing in objective truths.

"Perception is reality" is an intellectually lazy way raising the white flag. Declaring subservience to an authority. Texas! Your taxes for those non 1% top earners are higher than that of CA, but hey! Perception is reality. Let's ignore the following finding.

https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/texans-pay-more-taxes-than-californians-17400644.php?utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=referral

Oh, I do not raise a white flag at all. If irrationality is not real then Bernays would have failed. He did not.

I simply note the impact of irrationality on decision making as well as on the consequences of decision making.

 

[LA - L.A.]

In Jordan Peterson's interpretation of truth, dragons are real. Are lions predator? predators are real. Tigers are predators? so on and so on. So if lions, tigers, and bears are predators, and they're real...then...we can conclude: dragons are predators. Therefore dragons are real!!!

In such an inarticulate, absurd way, what I believe he's arguing is that symbolism/mythology/stories/fiction can create a truth that is real. (I may be giving him more credit than he deserves here...as listening to him makes my mind turn into pudding). For the birth of christ, richard dawkins may argue that it's not real...peterson won't touch that idea. Regardless, in Peterson's mind, it doesn't matter. The idea of the birth of christ is real, even if born out of lies. I fall back to the Watchmen when I listened to Peterson ramble on and on about dragons in defense of the story of jesus' birth. Ozimandias created a world based on a lie. In that Watchmen world, peace was achieved through the lie that Dr. Manhattan perpetrated a plan to destroy humanity. That's great in that story. However, let's examine the truth based on lies like N. Korea? Millions are starving, but the state's story is that N. Korea is the greatest in the world. Or how about the lie that Trump is a great businessman. The lie that he's a blue collar billionaire. Or the probability cone for a hurricane would affect alabama. And much worse, that masks aren't effective. Or all these rw polls that skew the polling average? Or the betting markets.

We may as well turn back time to the dark ages and rely on the unknown to guide our lives if we allow perception is reality. Ignore the enlightment. Ignore science. We didn't land on the moon. I believe tom nichols argue this in his criticism about the death of expertise. Reality then becomes what dear leader makes of it. Or in the managed democracy that is Russia, the multitude of conspiracies that cause their citizens not to have footing in objective truths.

"Perception is reality" is an intellectually lazy way raising the white flag. Declaring subservience to an authority. Texas! Your taxes for those non 1% top earners are higher than that of CA, but hey! Perception is reality. Let's ignore the following finding.

I completely agree with this and is why the phrase "perception is reality" is dangerous. Manipulators and cult leaders are the one's who push that concept, because the first thing they have to do is to get people not to believe their own eyes and ears.

https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/texans-pay-more-taxes-than-californians-17400644.php?utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=referral

 

[LA - L.A.]

Won’t argue that at all

I'm really not trying to argue. I'm just sharing what I think, but I usually come across as more argumentative than I actually am.

 

[UriUT]

Oh, I do not raise a white flag at all. If irrationality is not real then Bernays would have failed. He did not.

I simply note the impact of irrationality on decision making as well as on the consequences of decision making.

Firstly, I wasn't making a targeted accusation against anyone.

Put it this way, some authority may push that gravity isn't real at the golden gate bridge. We then have acolytes testing this out and jumps off. I don't deny that their beliefs are real. I would contend that every obsever would come to that conclusion. The problem is that gravity is real...and unfortunately, those followers will find out. How about that heavens gate cult?

I don't deny stupidity exists either. But the work laid forth by intellectuals throighout history pulling us out of irrational thinking shouldn't be cast off. Again, tom nichols observes this with his death of expertise critique. We as a society progresses bc of our embrace of objectivity. Our media is failing us by failing to point out the objective truth.

 

[bird]

I'm really not trying to argue. I'm just sharing what I think, but I usually come across as more argumentative than I actually am.

No more so than I do as well.

It’s all good.

 

[bird]

Firstly, I wasn't making a targeted accusation against anyone.

Put it this way, some authority may push that gravity isn't real at the golden gate bridge. We then have acolytes testing this out and jumps off. I don't deny that their beliefs are real. I would contend that every obsever would come to that conclusion. The problem is that gravity is real...and unfortunately, those followers will find out. How about that heavens gate cult?

I don't deny stupidity exists either. But the work laid forth by intellectuals throighout history pulling us out of irrational thinking shouldn't be cast off. Again, tom nichols observes this with his death of expertise critique. We as a society progresses bc of our embrace of objectivity. Our media is failing us by failing to point out the objective truth.

If I come across as ignoring work done to advance casting off ignorance and irrationality then I apologize. Perhaps it is merely the times.

What it appears you as well I would like is a matured society. I, personally, would love that. Unfortunately, I won’t live to see it.

 

[UriUT]

If I come across as ignoring work done to advance casting off ignorance and irrationality then I apologize. Perhaps it is merely the times.

What it appears you as well I would like is a matured society. I, personally, would love that. Unfortunately, I won’t live to see it.

I wasn't offended nor took what you said as anything more than opinions from your vantage point. And I expressed mine from my view. So no need to apologize for anything. Plus I wanted to dunk on peterson. Scientists' quest is to discover absolute truths. He seems to care about creating perceptive truths. Pseudo science.

I do worry about nichols point though. With the internet, we are less reliant on expert conclusions and believe our opinions are best.

 

[superchuck500]

This is really good

Trump's Followers Are Living in a Dark Fantasy

MAGA adherents deny and dismiss what they are a part of, but they believe Trump’s lies, and will support him until the end.

www.theatlantic.com