Explain how Trump has so much support (2 Viewers)

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    Bayouboy

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    I would like some layman answers to the question "How does Trump have so much support, right now"? The final two word are important context.

    I somewhat understand how he became a "force" prior to the 2016 election. There were many factors that allowed him to gain steam. Anti-establishment and not being a true politician was a big turn on to some voters on the right at the time. He talked a good game and somehow found a way to the Presidency despite acting "unpresidential". Trump's time in office had some victories for the Republicans and the economy was humming prior to COVID.....but the shirt show that happened on a daily basis with him firing executive staff (that didn't agree with him) and the overall chaos that was the White House certainly should've had an effect on his supporters. This was all BEFORE losing the 2020 election and what ensued. What happened after the 2020 election is well documented and, in my opinion, should have buried him as a candidate for office for eternity.

    With ALL of what happened since the 2020 election, how can he still have half of the country (give or take) as supporters? Had all the election denying, countless gaffs, and the attempt to circumvent the Constitution had not occurred and had he regrouped and formed a strategy to compete in 2024, I could see a lot of his supporters continuing to follow him and his message. But I can't get how so many Americans can overlook what happened in front of their own eyes. I am truly bewildered.

    I realize this is a mostly left leaning community, so maybe you folks do not have a clue either but would like to hear opinions. Especially, if you still support Trump through all of the mess.
     
    I saw a post about a young gay man, 27 yo or so and studying for his masters in music, who is a proud Trump voter. He wrote in Bernie in 2016 and voted for Biden in 2020 but has now convinced himself that Trump will prevent wars. This is the faction that has worried me - the misogynistic Bernie Bros. The amount of pretzel logic needed to convince this man to vote for Trump is astonishing. The hatred of women and the entitlement is really strong. I just hope that there aren’t too many of them.

    But misogyny has been my main fear. Because, at least online, misogyny is very prominent these days.
    We should tell people that Trump is an appeaser! I think Trump supporters hate that. I remember some people telling me they hated appeasers because I was arguing against going to war against Iraq, and I know they are Trump supporters. Now Trump is essentially planning to appease bullies (Putin, Jinping and Netanyahu). Let them do whatever they want and flaunt international law, which can only lead to more flaunting in the future. Jinping will do whatever he wants to Taiwan, Hong Kong and maybe more. Putin will finish Ukraine, and move on to other ex-soviet states. Netanyahu will keep killing civilians and extend the war to stay out of prison. Maybe the Bernie Bros prefer appeasement to ruthless leaders, but maybe they will understand that it is a short-sighted approach. The only people Trump won't appease are our NATO friends.
     
    We should tell people that Trump is an appeaser! I think Trump supporters hate that. I remember some people telling me they hated appeasers because I was arguing against going to war against Iraq, and I know they are Trump supporters. Now Trump is essentially planning to appease bullies (Putin, Jinping and Netanyahu). Let them do whatever they want and flaunt international law, which can only lead to more flaunting in the future. Jinping will do whatever he wants to Taiwan, Hong Kong and maybe more. Putin will finish Ukraine, and move on to other ex-soviet states. Netanyahu will keep killing civilians and extend the war to stay out of prison. Maybe the Bernie Bros prefer appeasement to ruthless leaders, but maybe they will understand that it is a short-sighted approach. The only people Trump won't appease are our NATO friends.
    They will just come up with a different excuse. They won’t vote for a woman is what it comes down to. The war thing is just an excuse.
     
    They will just come up with a different excuse. They won’t vote for a woman is what it comes down to. The war thing is just an excuse.
    Will change few opinions and maybe none, but you never know when something can connect dots for people.
     
    They will just come up with a different excuse. They won’t vote for a woman is what it comes down to. The war thing is just an excuse.

    Reminds me of a story I heard on Morning Edition today on NPR. They were interviewing people at a rodeo in Pahrump, NV. One of the people was a guy who works with horses and they played a clip of him talking about how gas prices were too high and it hurts when you drive so much towing a heavy horse trailer. The interviewer then said something like, "and then he went on to use vulgar terms to describe Vice President Harris."
     
    Reminds me of a story I heard on Morning Edition today on NPR. They were interviewing people at a rodeo in Pahrump, NV. One of the people was a guy who works with horses and they played a clip of him talking about how gas prices were too high and it hurts when you drive so much towing a heavy horse trailer. The interviewer then said something like, "and then he went on to use vulgar terms to describe Vice President Harris."
    There is so much hatred of women right now. I’ve never seen it this bad in my life. I’m starting to get the feeling that men are going to elect Trump with the help of the 30% of women who are brainwashed. I’ve been bummed out all day.
     
    Watch this


    I posted this before



    I think a combination of these two explain a great deal of his support

    Since 2015 people have said that Trump revealed that America as a whole was more sexist, racist, xenophobic, homophobic and just plain meaner than we thought.

    Trump allowed people to be unapologetically open about that like the tik tok video says

    But the line from the Batman clip "that's power you can't buy" is a big part of his appeal too, especially for young men

    When "men were men" and you could say or do whatever you wanted without remorse, apology or consequence

    When billionaires worth several times what Trump kowtow and bend the knee that's a power you can't buy

    When you have an army of people who will defend anything you say no matter how offensive, how illegal, how mean or just plain stupid, that's a power money can't buy

    We had a rep one time who was middle eastern and her husband was clearly the boss. Dinner had to be served at 6pm no matter what. She passed on appointments with CEOs who could only meet after 5pm because she had to have dinner on the table at 6. When she was sick with the flu she still had to make dinner. When her husband was overseas for a few weeks due to a family emergency. A respite? Nope. Dinner still had to be on the table at 6. He called to check. We were incredulous as she told the story. and when asked about these things she would always answer "I have a middle eastern husband"

    And the kicker? She made much much more money than he did. But that didn't matter. All that mattered was he was the man. He was king of the castle, he ruled the roost, his word was law, what he said went. Period

    That's a power money can't buy (if it could she would have had it)

    I can't say and can certainly be wrong but I didn't get the impression that there was any physical abuse, i thought it was more of a case of "that's how things were"

    And I think that a lot of young men want that to be how things are

    Say and do whatever, have people bow to your whims even if you no way no how are in any position to deserve any of it? Even if you are completely and obviously wrong? Sign em up!

    That's what Trump represents and what he offers, toxic combination of fake it till you make it and schoolyard bully

    We talked about in the election thread about issues facing young men, higher feelings of being left out, left behind, more feelings of depression and alienation etc.

    Kamala was taken to task by some for not targeting that demographic where Trump is

    But has he been? He certainly has done a lot of DudeBro reach out but has he offered any solution to any problem facing them?

    Other than "Wouldn't you like to go back to a time when women and minorities knew their place and stayed in it?"

    It's like the story of Donald Trump in some ways is the story of the Emperor Has No Clothes except a lot of people want to be the Emperor, the little girl is shouted down and vilified, the crowd and Fox News says how the Emperor is the best dressed emperor the nation has ever had

    That's power money can't buy, and that's the power millions of people wish they had
     
    Last edited:
    I posted this before



    I think a combination of these two explain a great deal of his support

    Since 2015 people have said that Trump revealed that America as a whole was more sexist, racist, xenophobic, homophobic and just plain meaner than we thought.

    Trump allowed people to be unapologetically open about that like the tik tok video says

    But the line from the Batman clip "that's power you can't buy" is a big part of his appeal too, especially for young men

    When "men were men" and you could say or do whatever you wanted without remorse, apology or consequence

    When billionaire worth several times what Trump kowtow and bend the knee that's a power you can't buy

    When you have an army of people who will defend anything you say no matter how offensive, how illegal, how mean or just plain stupid, that's a power money can't buy

    We had a rep one time who was middle eastern and her husband was clearly the boss. Dinner had to be served at 6pm no matter what. She passed on appointments with CEOs who could only meet after 5pm because she had to have dinner on the table at 6. When she was sick with the flu she still had to make dinner. When her husband was overseas for a few weeks due to a family emergency. A respite? Nope. Dinner still had to be on the table at 6. He called to check. We were incredulous as she told the story. and when asked about these things she would always answer "I have a middle eastern husband"

    And the kicker? She made much much more money than he did. But that didn't matter. All that mattered was he was the man. He was king of the castle, he ruled the roost, his word was law, what he said went. Period

    That's a power money can't buy (if it could she would have had it)

    I can't say and can certainly be wrong but I didn't get the impression that there was any physical abuse, i thought it was more of a case of "that's how things were"

    And I think that a lot of young men want that to be how things are

    Say and do whatever, have people bow to your whims even if you no way no how are in any position to deserve any of it? Even if you are completely and obviously wrong? Sign em up!

    That's what Trump represents and what he offers, toxic combination of fake it till you make it and schoolyard bully

    We talked about in the election thread about issues facing young men, higher feelings of being left out, left behind, more feelings of depression and alienation etc.

    Kamala was taken to task by some for not targeting that demographic where Trump is

    But has he been? He certainly has done a lot of DudeBro reach out but has he offered any solution to any problem facing them?

    Other than "Wouldn't you like to go back to a time when women and minorities knew their place and stayed in it?"

    It's like the story of Donald Trump in some ways is the story of the Emperor Has No Clothes except a lot of people want to be the Emperor, the little girl is shouted down and vilified, the crowd and Fox News says how the Emperor is the best dressed emperor the nation has ever had


    That's power money can't buy, and that's the power millions of people wish they had
    No one has any power over a person that isn't given to them by that person. People who lose sight of their power feel powerless, so they make the mistake of trying to feel more powerful by trying to have power over others. Bruce Wayne is more powerful in that clip than the person threatening him, because he refused to surrender to fear and give his power to some else.
     
    A couple of things going on that contribute to the problem and may even be foundational.

    This country is more rigidly class bound than England ever was. One of the contributors to that was/is race. Still, there was some upward social mobility. That has dwindled significantly. Now the fear is downward social mobility. It doesn’t matter whether or not wages have risen. Fear drives perception and perception is reality. One of the key things in that drive is those who see and believe are easily prone to charlatanism. That is what Trump is. His policies did nothing the last time. They will be actually worse this time should he win.

    The combination of Trumpism with a reactionary, radicalized Republican Party will cause harm on a scale not seen since Hoover and Mellon. Add in a flood of guns and then what?
     
    A couple of things going on that contribute to the problem and may even be foundational.

    This country is more rigidly class bound than England ever was. One of the contributors to that was/is race. Still, there was some upward social mobility. That has dwindled significantly. Now the fear is downward social mobility. It doesn’t matter whether or not wages have risen. Fear drives perception and perception is reality.
    Responding in general and not solely to you. I think we have got to stop repeating the lie that "perception is reality." That lie is contributing significantly to the individual and social emotional/mental health crisis in this country. That phrase is being used to slowly normalize the alarming rise in delusional and psychotic behavior.

    Most people take it literally and don't understand the nuance behind the words. An individual may act on their perceptions as if they are real, but their perceptions do not alter or change the actual reality they are in. A person hallucinating will react to their hallucination as if it's real, but that does not make their hallucination reality.

    It's an important distinction that we need to always be aware of and communicate. "Perception is reality" goes hand in hand with treating facts the same as opinions, and that not accepting facts is the same as disagreeing with an opinion.

    Those are both examples of "defective or lost contact with reality" which is the literal definition of psychosis. We need less psychotic rhetoric and thinking, not more.


    One of the key things in that drive is those who see and believe are easily prone to charlatanism. That is what Trump is. His policies did nothing the last time. They will be actually worse this time should he win.

    The combination of Trumpism with a reactionary, radicalized Republican Party will cause harm on a scale not seen since Hoover and Mellon. Add in a flood of guns and then what?
     
    Responding in general and not solely to you. I think we have got to stop repeating the lie that "perception is reality." That lie is contributing significantly to the individual and social emotional/mental health crisis in this country. That phrase is being used to slowly normalize the alarming rise in delusional and psychotic behavior.

    Most people take it literally and don't understand the nuance behind the words. An individual may act on their perceptions as if they are real, but their perceptions do not alter or change the actual reality they are in. A person hallucinating will react to their hallucination as if it's real, but that does not make their hallucination reality.

    It's an important distinction that we need to always be aware of and communicate. "Perception is reality" goes hand in hand with treating facts the same as opinions, and that not accepting facts is the same as disagreeing with an opinion.

    Those are both examples of "defective or lost contact with reality" which is the literal definition of psychosis. We need less psychotic rhetoric and thinking, not more.


    Thank you.

    I've always hated that phrase.

    A toddler may be completely unaware of that sliding-glass door. Their perception and therefore "reality" have the opening to the back yard completely unimpeded. But they'll smack into that glass regardless. They may even hurt themselves.

    Perception is NOT reality. Reality is what's there whether you perceive it or not.
     
    Responding in general and not solely to you. I think we have got to stop repeating the lie that "perception is reality." That lie is contributing significantly to the individual and social emotional/mental health crisis in this country. That phrase is being used to slowly normalize the alarming rise in delusional and psychotic behavior.

    Most people take it literally and don't understand the nuance behind the words. An individual may act on their perceptions as if they are real, but their perceptions do not alter or change the actual reality they are in. A person hallucinating will react to their hallucination as if it's real, but that does not make their hallucination reality.

    It's an important distinction that we need to always be aware of and communicate. "Perception is reality" goes hand in hand with treating facts the same as opinions, and that not accepting facts is the same as disagreeing with an opinion.

    Those are both examples of "defective or lost contact with reality" which is the literal definition of psychosis. We need less psychotic rhetoric and thinking, not more.

    I don’t arbitrarily dispute what you are saying. That being said people believe what they think they see or hear. Or worse, they have been conditioned through agitprop and theomythology that their conditions are either their own fault or they are the fault of the “other”. Charlatans can easily capitalize upon that. And, of course, it cannot be their own fault because of…reasons. Reasons can be: “I’m a good Christian”, “why are (fill-in-the-blank) getting whatever assistance”, “all the illegals are causing the problems” etc ad nauseum ad infinitum.

    This is populism on steroids. That the economy is good is irrelevant. Not because it doesn’t impact people but because various measurements are too nebulous and subject to twisting for the benefit of politicians. It also includes decisions made by individuals, by others that impact individuals and the law of unintended consequences. Those conditions or preconditions are more important to those individuals than reality.

    The problem also includes, imo, the vast majority of Americans are in need of mental healthcare.

    Our political economy system is toxic.
     
    I don’t arbitrarily dispute what you are saying. That being said people believe what they think they see or hear. Or worse, they have been conditioned through agitprop and theomythology that their conditions are either their own fault or they are the fault of the “other”. Charlatans can easily capitalize upon that. And, of course, it cannot be their own fault because of…reasons. Reasons can be: “I’m a good Christian”, “why are (fill-in-the-blank) getting whatever assistance”, “all the illegals are causing the problems” etc ad nauseum ad infinitum.

    This is populism on steroids. That the economy is good is irrelevant. Not because it doesn’t impact people but because various measurements are too nebulous and subject to twisting for the benefit of politicians. It also includes decisions made by individuals, by others that impact individuals and the law of unintended consequences. Those conditions or preconditions are more important to those individuals than reality.

    The problem also includes, imo, the vast majority of Americans are in need of mental healthcare.

    Our political economy system is toxic.
    My point of contention is that "perception is a reality" is a saying that does not mean what it literally says, but people take it literally and that's counterproductive to emotional/mental health and dangerous for society.

    It's absolutely true that people act on what they perceive reality to be which is what the phrase actually means. We should never give anyone any room to think that perception and reality are the same thing. People need to be reminded that our perceptions of reality are often inaccurate, so we need to take that into consideration when forming opinions and making decisions.

    I agree we need a massive amount of emotional/mental health care intervention in America. Me calling out the falsity in the phrase "perception is reality" is me doing my part to say we've got to stop reinforcing false ideas that enable and normalizing unhealthy emotional/mental beliefs. I'm doing my part as a member of America's emotional/mental health support group.
     
    Thank you.

    I've always hated that phrase.

    A toddler may be completely unaware of that sliding-glass door. Their perception and therefore "reality" have the opening to the back yard completely unimpeded. But they'll smack into that glass regardless. They may even hurt themselves.

    Perception is NOT reality. Reality is what's there whether you perceive it or not.
    I think that's a very relatable and clear explanation. It's the same thing illustrated in the story of misinterpreting shadows on the cave wall and the 3 blind men not knowing they were touching an elephant.
     
    My point of contention is that "perception is a reality" is a saying that does not mean what it literally says, but people take it literally and that's counterproductive to emotional/mental health and dangerous for society.

    It's absolutely true that people act on what they perceive reality to be which is what the phrase actually means. We should never give anyone any room to think that perception and reality are the same thing. People need to be reminded that our perceptions of reality are often inaccurate, so we need to take that into consideration when forming opinions and making decisions.

    I agree we need a massive amount of emotional/mental health care intervention in America. Me calling out the falsity in the phrase "perception is reality" is me doing my part to say we've got to stop reinforcing false ideas that enable and normalizing unhealthy emotional/mental beliefs. I'm doing my part as a member of America's emotional/mental health support group.
    I understand what you are saying. The problem lies in the fallacy of rationality. Humans are not rational. They are born as a blank slate but the informational inputs they receive from the moment that they can go beyond the need for feeding, warmth, etc as babies starts to create their reality. I do not talk of physical world reality but reality of society.

    From religion to political views to tribalism their sociological-psychological reality is built. That influences what they perceive others as doing and how it interacts with their belief structures. Certainly belief structures can change over time and thus their reality changes with it. The more humans age, in general, the more difficult it is to change their belief structures. If humans do not take steps outside of their tribalism as their beliefs are crystallizing and hardening then it takes increasingly stronger trauma to cause change.

    In point of opinion, the human brain and thus the human mind have not evolved sufficiently to cope with the impact of technology. The sheer volume of input as well as speed of input is overwhelming.

    The rationality issue is particularly evident in economics. Humans are not irrational all of the time nor about all things. Irrationality increases as complexity increases and as assaults on belief structures increase. Many times we have heard stories of how people have interacted with Trump supporters in non-threatening situations. There are stories of Trump supporters helping someone and so on. Yet, when the intrusion of belief threat enters the picture irrationality rises.

    When I say perception is reality I mean that belief colors perception, informs perception which makes perception mesh with belief to create a belief-based reality. This is best shown by the phrase “voting against their interests”. They do not vote against their interests in their minds because, as an example, in their minds deportation of immigrants is in their interest.

    Much of this has been caused by a toxic theomythology regarding this country and its history. On a side note, that is why a David Barton is so dangerous. Control of information particularly mythological information as regards history is not to be treated lightly.

    All of this does show that mental healthcare is needed and is needed all throughout life. Social control via agitprop, theomythology, religion (usually by religious “leaders”) and tribalism are tools that can be used for good or for creating havoc.
     
    I understand what you are saying. The problem lies in the fallacy of rationality. Humans are not rational. They are born as a blank slate but the informational inputs they receive from the moment that they can go beyond the need for feeding, warmth, etc as babies starts to create their reality. I do not talk of physical world reality but reality of society.

    From religion to political views to tribalism their sociological-psychological reality is built. That influences what they perceive others as doing and how it interacts with their belief structures. Certainly belief structures can change over time and thus their reality changes with it. The more humans age, in general, the more difficult it is to change their belief structures. If humans do not take steps outside of their tribalism as their beliefs are crystallizing and hardening then it takes increasingly stronger trauma to cause change.
    There's truth to that, but each individual can choose to change what you call "sociological-psychological reality." It's not immutable, because it is subjective and not an objective fact of reality. Trauma is not the only thing that can motivate someone to redefine their views and relationships with the rest of the world. In fact, healing from past traumas is one of the most powerful forces in allowing a person to choose the values that are internally true to themselves and then reshape their lives around that inner truth.

    I was 30 years old when I took my first step on that journey. It wasn't because of trauma, it was because I was honest with myself that I was not living how I wanted and needed to live for my own well being. That journey never ends by the way. Just like no breath of air ends our need for another breath of air.

    In point of opinion, the human brain and thus the human mind have not evolved sufficiently to cope with the impact of technology. The sheer volume of input as well as speed of input is overwhelming.
    I don't agree with that. Recent neurological research suggests that the struggle we're having is with trying to multitask. Digital technology can exacerbate the stress and strain of multitasking, but it doesn't require it. A person can use technology without multitasking.

    The other problem digital technology can make worse is not mentally pacing ourselves. We work best in short sessions with 5 to 10 minute breaks to relax. Again, that's a choice. Digital technology can be used in that way if one chooses to.

    Our brains can handle it if we approach it differently than the "4 hour straight on task/lunch break/4 more straight hours on task" cycle. The problem is not in our brains, it's that we are still using an routine used for a more physical activity which is counter productive for a more cerebral activity.
    The rationality issue is particularly evident in economics. Humans are not irrational all of the time nor about all things. Irrationality increases as complexity increases and as assaults on belief structures increase. Many times we have heard stories of how people have interacted with Trump supporters in non-threatening situations. There are stories of Trump supporters helping someone and so on. Yet, when the intrusion of belief threat enters the picture irrationality rises.

    When I say perception is reality I mean that belief colors perception, informs perception which makes perception mesh with belief to create a belief-based reality.
    Belief can align with reality or be out of line with reality, but belief and reality are never the same thing. The phrase "belief-based reality" doesn't exist. There is only one reality for everyone. There is no such thing as a "belief-based reality." Reality exists completely independent and unchanged by anyone's beliefs.

    Everyone in the world can believe without a doubt that I'm an imaginary 6 foot tall rabbit, but the reality that I am not will be unchanged. If everyone did belief that it would be mass psychosis and telling everyone that is their "belief-based reality" would just drive everyone farther into their delusion.

    Since 2019, I've had way too much experience interacting with someone who occasionally has intense and disturbing hallucinations. I learned from reading and asking questions that you don't try to convince them they are just hallucinating. You also don't play along with their hallucinations. You ask them how the what they are experiencing makes them feel and what you can do to help them feel safer if they are feeling anxiety.

    That's also the best approach with someone who has a belief system that is not in alignment with reality. Don't tell them their wrong. Ask them how they feel about it and what can be done to address any feelings of anxiety or pain they may have. That creates a cooperative relationship dynamic instead of a competitive dynamic.

    This is best shown by the phrase “voting against their interests”. They do not vote against their interests in their minds because, as an example, in their minds deportation of immigrants is in their interest.
    It's the flip side of enlightened self-interest.

    Much of this has been caused by a toxic theomythology regarding this country and its history. On a side note, that is why a David Barton is so dangerous. Control of information particularly mythological information as regards history is not to be treated lightly.
    I agree. No one has ever truly withheld information from society for society's own good. It's always been exclusively for the good of whoever is withholding the information. It's one of the fundamental flaws in almost every religion. Almost all of them have esotericism hard wired into their belief systems. It's inherently authoritarian.

    All of this does show that mental healthcare is needed and is needed all throughout life. Social control via agitprop, theomythology, religion (usually by religious “leaders”) and tribalism are tools that can be used for good or for creating havoc.
    I agree. Our public education needs to equally incorporate emotional education along sign of intellectual education. An imbalance or dysfunction between the two is unhealthy for the individual and for society.

    Human beings are emotional beings capable of rational thought. As long as we remain self-aware of that and of our emotions, we can make more rational than irrational choices. If we fool ourselves into believing we are rational beings, then we are going to make more irrational than rational choices. Also, suppressing or ignoring emotions leads to destructively irrational choices.
     
    Last edited:
    My point of contention is that "perception is a reality" is a saying that does not mean what it literally says, but people take it literally and that's counterproductive to emotional/mental health and dangerous for society.

    It's absolutely true that people act on what they perceive reality to be which is what the phrase actually means. We should never give anyone any room to think that perception and reality are the same thing. People need to be reminded that our perceptions of reality are often inaccurate, so we need to take that into consideration when forming opinions and making decisions.

    I agree we need a massive amount of emotional/mental health care intervention in America. Me calling out the falsity in the phrase "perception is reality" is me doing my part to say we've got to stop reinforcing false ideas that enable and normalizing unhealthy emotional/mental beliefs. I'm doing my part as a member of America's emotional/mental health support group.
    Yeah, I would say perception is reality to the individual perceiving it, but but that perception may or may not be true.
     

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