Euthanasia; Yeah or Nay? (3 Viewers)

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    Farb

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    This is becoming a talking point or will be soon. I personally have no issue with medical assisted suicide in a hospice care environment. There is a push, and this is in Canada, to include the mentally ill, disabled, and even the homeless. That I cannot get behind. What does everyone else think about it?

    https://www.thestar.com/opinion/con...-of-abuse-is-becoming-ever-more-apparent.html

    How does the unthinkable become not only thinkable, but seemingly inevitable? How do we normalize things we recently considered not just abnormal, but horrifying?

    The question arises because a major Canadian medical organization is pushing the idea of allowing doctors to do something that’s long been considered unthinkable and abnormal: killing infants who are born with conditions that make survival impossible.

    The Quebec College of Physicians made the case for this before a parliamentary committee studying changes to Canada’s law on medical assistance in dying (MAID), a.k.a. assisted suicide.

    To be clear, the college’s proposal involves only newborns with severe malformations whose chance for life is “basically nil.” It wouldn’t be a license to kill babies. But let’s also be clear about this: authorizing doctors to actively euthanize infants — rather than allowing nature to take its course — does cross a line once thought inviolable.


    The college suggests blurring things in other ways, too. It supports extending MAID to “mature minors,” i.e. teenagers aged 14 to 17, and wants us to think about allowing euthanasia for old people who are just “tired of living.”

    Now, Canada’s laws on MAID have long been stretched far beyond the original (and praiseworthy) concept of sparing terminally ill people from unnecessary agony at the end of their lives, allowing a so-called “death with dignity.” When the law was passed in 2016 it didn’t specify that a person must be terminally ill to qualify for a medically assisted death, and last year it was amended to remove the requirement that death be “reasonably foreseeable.”

    https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/famil...ssion-wasn-t-fit-for-assisted-death-1.4609016

    A British Columbia man who struggled with depression and showed no signs of facing an imminent demise was given a medically-assisted death despite desperate pleas from his loved ones, family members say.

    Alan Nichols was admitted to Chilliwack General Hospital in June, at age 61, after he was found dehydrated and malnourished. One month later, he died by injection.

    Days before his death, family members begged Nichols, a former school janitor who lived alone and struggled with depression, not to go through with the procedure. They still don’t know why doctors approved the life-ending procedure and insist that Nichols did not fit the government criteria of facing an “imminent death.”

    https://www.foxnews.com/media/canad...law-include-mentally-ill-enable-mature-minors
     
    I don't know that I agree with that. I think a person who's life has been really shirtty, difficult, lonely and unloved could make a rational decision that they'd rather not just live life any more and would seek an end of life remedy. That person could be depressed but at the same time want to act rationally to end their life.

    Having said that, I don't necessarily think the government should aid in that decision or allow for it legally by doctor's absent a real, terminal illness. Mostly for the same dystopian reasons that @J-DONK mentioned. I'd much rather the government invest in mental health services and in social services to make peoples lives better and encourage its citizens to seek a more fulfilling life situation by connecting with others.

    In the end, if people in that situation want to really end their life, they will find a way to commit suicide absent doctors or government aid.

    This is where I'm at as well. Well stated.
     
    My stance is predicated on fetuses and people being vastly different. I can make an anti-capital punishment argument without discussing the sanctity of life or protecting the innocent.
    Do you think there should be a limit on abortion, and what is that limit?
     
    Do you think there should be a limit on abortion, and what is that limit?

    I think something like fetal viability with clear exceptions in place for life-threatening complications to the health of the mother is a good place to start the discussion.
     
    I think something like fetal viability with clear exceptions in place for life-threatening complications to the health of the mother is a good place to start the discussion.
    Ok. Say the baby is healthy and the mother. There is no rape or incest. What is the time frame that you think an abortion should not be an option?
     
    Ok. Say the baby is healthy and the mother. There is no rape or incest. What is the time frame that you think an abortion should not be an option?
    when fetus can survive on its own.
    we know you think pro choice people want abortion until the 9th month but that's just the crazies anti abortionists try to make people believe.
     
    You mean a federal law of the land, not up to states?
    The states already could ban abortions beyond viability or have their own rules up to a point, I don't recall the exact verbiage, but even under Roe, abortion on demand at all points of the pregnancy was never a thing.
     
    The states already could ban abortions beyond viability or have their own rules up to a point, I don't recall the exact verbiage, but even under Roe, abortion on demand at all points of the pregnancy was never a thing.
    yea, i don't think any states allowed any past the first trimester unless there was complications that put the mother's life at risk or unless the fetus was already dead/ dying.. but the right loved to put that boogeyman out there in their massive misinformation quest making it seam pro life meant abortion until the due date.
     
    Ok. Say the baby is healthy and the mother. There is no rape or incest. What is the time frame that you think an abortion should not be an option?

    Fetal viability. I said that in the post you are quoting.
     
    yea, i don't think any states allowed any past the first trimester unless there was complications that put the mother's life at risk or unless the fetus was already dead/ dying.. but the right loved to put that boogeyman out there in their massive misinformation quest making it seam pro life meant abortion until the due date.
    I think Roe’s standard was viability of the fetus - so some of the second trimester is included. I think limit of viability is about 20-22 weeks. Almost all later abortions are due to health of the mother - could be cancer diagnosis where they cannot start treatment - could be something like severe eclampsia which can be fatal - could be abruption, also life threatening to the mother OR fatal abnormality in the fetus. Almost all. Another small number of second trimester abortions are in children who didn’t realize they were pregnant until later and were obviously raped, whether by their stepdad, father, uncle, cousin, etc.
     
    when fetus can survive on its own.
    we know you think pro choice people want abortion until the 9th month but that's just the crazies anti abortionists try to make people believe.
    Are you saying that is the extreme left, or alt-left or there are people that want abortion legal up until birth?
     
    The states already could ban abortions beyond viability or have their own rules up to a point, I don't recall the exact verbiage, but even under Roe, abortion on demand at all points of the pregnancy was never a thing.
    A state could not ban abortion while Roe was active. It might have been able to set limits (safe, legal and rare) but abortion was a federally protected right under Roe. So yeah, I think we are saying the same thing.
     

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