Drag Queens in society -what's appropriate and what isn't (1 Viewer)

[VoxPopuli]

There has been an interest in discussing the role of drag queens in the public arena, and what is appropriate with children. This specifically was an area of concern:



So, are there dangers present in transgenders reading stories to children. If so, what are they? What is government's role in this? Is it a local or federal issue?

 

[GMRfellowtraveller]

I tend to believe that people are either born gay or not. (Doesn't really matter on the issue of acceptance - it's not necessary for it to be outside of a person's control). There is, however, a phenomenon known as rapid onset gender dysphoria. This is where a child shows a sudden interest in identifying as transgender later in life than one would expect. I think it's important to note that this phenomenon often occurs in clusters within a population and such clusters are almost always comprised of teenage biological girls. To me, that suggests that this is the result of influences from society. In other words, it sounds like it's a fad in those instances.

I have an issue with people exposing children to sexual issues by - well, who really knows who these people are.

I am not making the argument that trans people or drag queens are more likely to be pedophiles. However, I do think the prospect of presenting sexual issues to kids may very well be something a pedophile would be interested in. Self selection.

Regardless of what our philosophical views are, this has already proven to be a problem.

As a parent, I would not take my kids to see a presentation by drag queens, but I also would not take them to a presentation about the wonders of BDSM given by a dominatrix all decked out in leather and chains either. I guess I am old fashioned.

there is a lot of conflating sex and gender in here

to the 1st point you make - gay is not really binary -more like fuzzy control than a toggle switch

the rapid onset gender dysphoria is an interesting one i think - yes there is probably a lot of social context to it - i wonder if it's not a bit of kids who were socialized in ways that are over-genderized for them - "too" girly or butch - and it wasn't a fit. so when they find a trans option - and that's really the only one 'offered' naturally they will experiment
this past summer i had 2 kids who were biological males and now identify as female - one clearly is just struggling with identity writ large and will probably try out many identities before s/he finds some comfort - the other clearly will be female for the rest of her life

the last part bdsm vs trans is a MASSIVE false equivalency

 

[dtc]

Well of course you should and so should I.. But... Can you honestly say that this little internet TV is something that you would let you kids watch?

I can say that others can raise thier kids any way that they want.. Sure.. Does that mean I think that this is acceptable? No..

Where is your stance..
Do you feel that this TV show is acceptable for little kids?
Would you let your kids watch "Queer KId Stuff" on a regular basis?
Do you feel that Google has a right to refuse them an ad?

You just refuse to understand the point.

No, I wouldn't let my kid watch that or most any other crap, but that's my job as a parent. It's not yours.

You do you and I'll do me.

If you decide you want to teach your kids the joys of bondage, the joys of Christ or the joys of hermaphodite bondage it's on you.

Get out of my business.

 

[Joe Okc]

Get out of my business.

Then don't inject your business onto my kids...

ANd YOU are the one not understanding the point.

Is this acceptable for the little kids???... the question is not "What are a parents rights here." I get the parents rights part... I am asking you personally..

"Do you think this TV show is acceptable for the little Kids"?

 

[Beach Friends]

there is a lot of conflating sex and gender in here

to the 1st point you make - gay is not really binary -more like fuzzy control than a toggle switch

the rapid onset gender dysphoria is an interesting one i think - yes there is probably a lot of social context to it - i wonder if it's not a bit of kids who were socialized in ways that are over-genderized for them - "too" girly or butch - and it wasn't a fit. so when they find a trans option - and that's really the only one 'offered' naturally they will experiment
this past summer i had 2 kids who were biological males and now identify as female - one clearly is just struggling with identity writ large and will probably try out many identities before s/he finds some comfort - the other clearly will be female for the rest of her life

the last part bdsm vs trans is a MASSIVE false equivalency

I wasn't really trying to equate the two. Hell, it could even be a problem where the presenter might be tempted into a discussion of the good, wholesome sex I ascribe to (man on top, lights out, get it over quickly and for procreation only).

Regardless of the merits of the arguments that these presentations are not inherently sexual, it didn't take long before there were instances where they turned undeniably sexual. Or for instances where pedophiles were attracted to them.

I heard an interesting interview with a journalist who is a lesbian, and she was relating that she believes if she had grown up just a few years later she would have been drawn into identifying as transgender. That would have been her youthful decision, and she knows now after maturing that such a decision would have been a mistake for her. She is very happy being female and lesbian.

I don't pretend to have all the answers but I am concerned about young people taking steps toward transitioning. I think that a significant number of those people, if not most, will discover after they are more mature that they can live their best life as their biological gender.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

Then don't inject your business onto my kids...

ANd YOU are the one not understanding the point.

Is this acceptable for the little kids???... the question is not "What are a parents rights here." I get the parents rights part... I am asking you personally..

"Do you think this TV show is acceptable for the little Kids"?

So, I’m wondering what it is that you think is harmful here. This isn’t something that I’d show my kids, but if some parents do, I don’t think they’d be harming their kids either.

this obviously bothers you because you bring it up occasionally. But I’m not sure what the purpose is... you don’t want the government to interfere right? Do you think we should shame parents that watch this with their kids.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

I tend to believe that people are either born gay or not. (Doesn't really matter on the issue of acceptance - it's not necessary for it to be outside of a person's control). There is, however, a phenomenon known as rapid onset gender dysphoria. This is where a child shows a sudden interest in identifying as transgender later in life than one would expect. I think it's important to note that this phenomenon often occurs in clusters within a population and such clusters are almost always comprised of teenage biological girls. To me, that suggests that this is the result of influences from society. In other words, it sounds like it's a fad in those instances.

I have an issue with people exposing children to sexual issues by - well, who really knows who these people are.

I am not making the argument that trans people or drag queens are more likely to be pedophiles. However, I do think the prospect of presenting sexual issues to kids may very well be something a pedophile would be interested in. Self selection.

Regardless of what our philosophical views are, this has already proven to be a problem.

As a parent, I would not take my kids to see a presentation by drag queens, but I also would not take them to a presentation about the wonders of BDSM given by a dominatrix all decked out in leather and chains either. I guess I am old fashioned.

there is a lot of conflating sex and gender in here

to the 1st point you make - gay is not really binary -more like fuzzy control than a toggle switch

the rapid onset gender dysphoria is an interesting one i think - yes there is probably a lot of social context to it - i wonder if it's not a bit of kids who were socialized in ways that are over-genderized for them - "too" girly or butch - and it wasn't a fit. so when they find a trans option - and that's really the only one 'offered' naturally they will experiment
this past summer i had 2 kids who were biological males and now identify as female - one clearly is just struggling with identity writ large and will probably try out many identities before s/he finds some comfort - the other clearly will be female for the rest of her life

the last part bdsm vs trans is a MASSIVE false equivalency

I wasn't really trying to equate the two. Hell, it could even be a problem where the presenter might be tempted into a discussion of the good, wholesome sex I ascribe to (man on top, lights out, get it over quickly and for procreation only).

Regardless of the merits of the arguments that these presentations are not inherently sexual, it didn't take long before there were instances where they turned undeniably sexual. Or for instances where pedophiles were attracted to them.

I heard an interesting interview with a journalist who is a lesbian, and she was relating that she believes if she had grown up just a few years later she would have been drawn into identifying as transgender. That would have been her youthful decision, and she knows now after maturing that such a decision would have been a mistake for her. She is very happy being female and lesbian.

I don't pretend to have all the answers but I am concerned about young people taking steps toward transitioning. I think that a significant number of those people, if not most, will discover after they are more mature that they can live their best life as their biological gender.

So, I probably know more about this than most people since I’m going through it with my middle child. There is not a ton of research available, and a lot of politics, where people are pushing their agendas instead of worrying about the health of the kids. Fortunately, there are a number of good therapists out there who are both supportive of kids experiencing gender dysphoria, while realizing that it might not be persistent.

 

[Joe Okc]

What do you think we should do about it?

Should we ban these videos? Boycott YouTube?

I don;t believe that there is anything we can do about it.... But we can stop supporting nonsense like this is about all...

I don;t have problems with Drag Queens.. I don;t have problems with Drag Queens even when they interact with children... But when they are put in a position that the child starts looking up to them as a role model, and being taught that their way of life is fun, exciting, normal and the whole world is doing it so they should be too, and they need to start thinking what their drag names are gonna be.. Then I have a problem.

 

[Joe Okc]

So, I’m wondering what it is that you think is harmful here. This isn’t something that I’d show my kids, but if some parents do, I don’t think they’d be harming their kids either.

this obviously bothers you because you bring it up occasionally. But I’m not sure what the purpose is... you don’t want the government to interfere right? Do you think we should shame parents that watch this with their kids.

It does bother me and worries me.. More about the sanity our us as a people more than anything.

Seems that you and dtc are so woke that you support something for no more reason than people should have a right to do something, even if you think it may be wrong for the children to be a part of.. ie- adults rights are more important than the kids health and well being.

Both of you state that it isn't something that you;e show your kids... But you think it's more important that the parent has the right to make that decision rather than what may actually be the best outcome for the child.

If I start my kid at two growing up thinking drinking beer and Harleys are cool.. Most likely the kid will grow up thinking beer and harleys are cool... IF kids at two grow up thinking drag queens are cool, then most likely the kids will grow up thinking drag queens are cool...

I continue to bring this up because more and more effort is being put into pushing alternative lifestyles upon our kids because the parents want it to be so.

Take a look at Desmond is amazing.. His mother started him watching drag shows at the age of two. She took him to see Drag queen shows live.. Took him to gay and Drag parades.... Now the kid is 11 and guess what? He's a Drag Kid... Imagine that... So you don;t think that this kids life was influenced by what his mother decided for him at 2 years old and older?

Your child was able to make their own decision.. and theres nothing wrong with it.. But it was their choice as they aged.. and not by you pushing something upon them as a toddler.

 

[CoolBrees]

My kids went to a drag queen reading of green eggs and ham about a month ago. It was amazing. I would absolutely recommend it if you have never been.

my daughters are 10 and 8 and their PUBLIC school taught sex Ed in second grade. There are two transgendered kids in our school. They give a presentation about this the first day of school and the kindergarten are part of it. My kids have been to a lesbian wedding that was one of their teachers and my oldest was in a gay wedding of her best friend. Both my kids have received citizenship awards and work with special needs kids on their own volition.

My wife is a social worker for foster kids and her main clients are trans kids. Most of the fost-to-adopt families are same sex couples.

Oh I am an athiest and my kids think god is faker than Santa.

I also have a 5000 sq foot home in Portland’s most expensive per sq ft neighborhood. I pulled my Bootstraps like I was told.

Nobody lets their kids do that? I do. What say you? I’m a bad father or citizen? Because my kids know that people are different from each other and that is amazing?

 

[samiam5211]

I don;t believe that there is anything we can do about it.... But we can stop supporting nonsense like this is about all...

I don;t have problems with Drag Queens.. I don;t have problems with Drag Queens even when they interact with children... But when they are put in a position that the child starts looking up to them as a role model, and being taught that their way of life is fun, exciting, normal and the whole world is doing it so they should be too, and they need to start thinking what their drag names are gonna be.. Then I have a problem.

I don’t have a problem with drag queens teaching children about their lifestyle and suggesting that it is ok for someone to choose to be a drag queen.

I don’t think it amounts to indoctrination or even recruiting.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

It does bother me and worries me.. More about the sanity our us as a people more than anything.

Seems that you and dtc are so woke that you support something for no more reason than people should have a right to do something, even if you think it may be wrong for the children to be a part of.. ie- adults rights are more important than the kids health and well being.

Both of you state that it isn't something that you;e show your kids... But you think it's more important that the parent has the right to make that decision rather than what may actually be the best outcome for the child.

If I start my kid at two growing up thinking drinking beer and Harleys are cool.. Most likely the kid will grow up thinking beer and harleys are cool... IF kids at two grow up thinking drag queens are cool, then most likely the kids will grow up thinking drag queens are cool...

I continue to bring this up because more and more effort is being put into pushing alternative lifestyles upon our kids because the parents want it to be so.

Take a look at Desmond is amazing.. His mother started him watching drag shows at the age of two. She took him to see Drag queen shows live.. Took him to gay and Drag parades.... Now the kid is 11 and guess what? He's a Drag Kid... Imagine that... So you don;t think that this kids life was influenced by what his mother decided for him at 2 years old and older?

Your child was able to make their own decision.. and theres nothing wrong with it.. But it was their choice as they aged.. and not by you pushing something upon them as a toddler.

I'm not sure what being woke has to do with anything. You haven't explained to me why you think dressing in drag is harmful... so let's walk through this. A young boy watches this show, sees men dressing up in dresses and wearing makeup and thinks, "hey, that looks fun, I want to try this." The parents are ok with it and he wears a dress and wears lipstick.

Has the kid been harmed? In what way?


The Desmond is Amazing is an issue with the sexualization of a young child. I think your issue is with beauty pagents and focusing on sex appeal with young children not drag queens.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

I tend to believe that people are either born gay or not. (Doesn't really matter on the issue of acceptance - it's not necessary for it to be outside of a person's control). There is, however, a phenomenon known as rapid onset gender dysphoria. This is where a child shows a sudden interest in identifying as transgender later in life than one would expect. I think it's important to note that this phenomenon often occurs in clusters within a population and such clusters are almost always comprised of teenage biological girls. To me, that suggests that this is the result of influences from society. In other words, it sounds like it's a fad in those instances.

No, there's not. There's a single study that is highly controversial and flawed. The researcher behind the study didn't even interview the kids, instead surveying the parents.

I have an issue with people exposing children to sexual issues by - well, who really knows who these people are.

What sexual issues are kids being exposed to?

I am not making the argument that trans people or drag queens are more likely to be pedophiles. However, I do think the prospect of presenting sexual issues to kids may very well be something a pedophile would be interested in. Self selection.

By this logic, health and PE teachers should have the largest percentage of pedophiles.

Regardless of what our philosophical views are, this has already proven to be a problem.

What has proven to be a problem and hows has it been proven?

As a parent, I would not take my kids to see a presentation by drag queens, but I also would not take them to a presentation about the wonders of BDSM given by a dominatrix all decked out in leather and chains either. I guess I am old fashioned.

This is a terrible analogy. BDSM is a sexual practice. Drag is not.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Maybe you should explain what sex is to the kids first before they can even understand gender identity, drag and sexual orientation... I mean... Gotta make this shirt clear to the kids right, so they can decide for themselves?

I think 3 years old is a perfect age to start telling kids about the birds and the bees, don;t you. ANd don;t forget to tell the kids that Mommies toys are not to be played with. And daddies new toy is actually their aunt Linda.

They'll understand.

If you are going to reply to me, please have show me the courtesy of actually addressing what I wrote. I asked two question and you ignored them both. I will copy and paste my post below in the hopes that you will address it.

Original Post:

I'd love to have this conversation, but I need to ask two questions first: Are you aware that not all young people identify as cis hetero, and are you aware that gender identity, drag, and sexual orientation can be discussed without talking about the act of sex?

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

No, there's not. There's a single study that is highly controversial and flawed. The researcher behind the study didn't even interview the kids, instead surveying the parents.

So, this is kind of what I was talking about there not being a lot of research and a lot of agendas not driven by concern for the health of the kids.

The study itself is neither controversial nor flawed. I've read the paper, it's merely describing an observed phenomenon. It is not making any judgement of causation or anything else like that. It's been peer reviewed (twice now), and accepted both times, the second made some pretty minor clarifications due to people with agendas fighting over it.

As I've said, I'm going through this with my middle child. There's a lot of agendas being pushed and quite annoying because it seems like a lot of people are trying to prove their point without thinking about what is best for the kid. But as I've also said, there are some really good therapists out there that do just focus on the kid.

 

[Joe Okc]

so let's walk through this. A young boy watches this show, sees men dressing up in dresses and wearing makeup and thinks, "hey, that looks fun, I want to try this." The parents are ok with it and he wears a dress and wears lipstick.
Has the kid been harmed? In what way?

And if the boy never saw a show of men dressing up in dresses and thinking that it looked fun, that he may have never wanted to try it himself? And since his parents encouraged it, maybe he just thought this was normal.

If you are going to reply to me, please have show me the courtesy of actually addressing what I wrote. I asked two question and you ignored them both. I will copy and paste my post below in the hopes that you will address it.

Original Post:

I'd love to have this conversation, but I need to ask two questions first: Are you aware that not all young people identify as cis hetero, and are you aware that gender identity, drag, and sexual orientation can be discussed without talking about the act of sex?

I am going to respectfully answer to the best of my ability, and I am sure that it won;t be satisfactory.

The above linked videos were put on by the LGBTQ... They have used that in the title of the video.

L - Lesbian - Specific Sexual acts
G - Gay - Specific Sexual Acts
B - Bisexual - Specific Sexual acts
T - Transgender -
Q - Queer - Associated with the Gay Community due to specific sexual acts.

Now... are you going to tell me that this has absolutely nothing to do with sex.

this obviously bothers you because you bring it up occasionally. But I’m not sure what the purpose is... you don’t want the government to interfere right? Do you think we should shame parents that watch this with their kids.

and one more thing Jim... And I mean this respectfully and I hope my posting style (Which seems bother so many) doesn;t come across as snarky or rude.

It is my understand that this is a Political Discussion website where members are allowed to discuss issue that may or may not effect our nation, politicians, people and other things.
I don't know how I came across this.. But its like guns, politicians, crime, laws, cops, war, college professors, teachers, movie stars. Isn;t that what this website is for?

 

[cuddlemonkey]

So, this is kind of what I was talking about there not being a lot of research and a lot of agendas not driven by concern for the health of the kids.

The study itself is neither controversial nor flawed. I've read the paper, it's merely describing an observed phenomenon. It is not making any judgement of causation or anything else like that. It's been peer reviewed (twice now), and accepted both times, the second made some pretty minor clarifications due to people with agendas fighting over it.

As I've said, I'm going through this with my middle child. There's a lot of agendas being pushed and quite annoying because it seems like a lot of people are trying to prove their point without thinking about what is best for the kid. But as I've also said, there are some really good therapists out there that do just focus on the kid.

The surveys targeted parents of youth that identify as trans through three websites that are essentially critical of gender identity and the notion of being trans. When you intentionally seek out parents that visit anti trans websites, you are not getting unbiased results. A researcher from Brown did a critique of the methodology earlier this year and goes into pretty good detail.

I absolutely agree that what the parents and medical professionals involve decide to be best for each individual child should be the course of action taken. No two cases are alike and all treatment plans (no matter what is being treated) should be tailored to what is best for the individual. In general, agendas and those that push them suck.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

And if the boy never saw a show of men dressing up in dresses and thinking that it looked fun, that he may have never wanted to try it himself? And since his parents encouraged it, maybe he just thought this was normal.

Right, but I'm not seeing how that is harmful. I introduced my kid to soccer, he thought it looked fun and started to try and now he loves it. I also introduced him to baseball, he tried it but didn't like it. That's how things work. Why do you think it's harmful if a boy sees another boy wearing a dress and wants to try it, and ends up liking it?

I'm specifically asking for, what is the harm of boys wearing dresses?

I am going to respectfully answer to the best of my ability, and I am sure that it won;t be satisfactory.

The above linked videos were put on by the LGBTQ... They have used that in the title of the video.

L - Lesbian - Specific Sexual acts
G - Gay - Specific Sexual Acts
B - Bisexual - Specific Sexual acts
T - Transgender -
Q - Queer - Associated with the Gay Community due to specific sexual acts.

Now... are you going to tell me that this has absolutely nothing to do with sex.

I think you are a bit off on your terminology. Those terms don't refer to specific sexual acts. It refers to attraction.

For example, if you have a married heterosexual couple reading a story - are you teaching children about sexual acts.

and one more thing Jim... And I mean this respectfully and I hope my posting style (Which seems bother so many) doesn;t come across as snarky or rude.

It is my understand that this is a Political Discussion website where members are allowed to discuss issue that may or may not effect our nation, politicians, people and other things.
I don't know how I came across this.. But its like guns, politicians, crime, laws, cops, war, college professors, teachers, movie stars. Isn;t that what this website is for?

I don't think this is snarky at all. I get what you're saying, and I think it certainly can fit in the discussion, but I guess I also don't quite get where you're going with this. I get that you're uncomfortable with a boy wearing a dress, but you haven't explained why. And you also haven't explained what you think should be done about it.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

I am going to respectfully answer to the best of my ability, and I am sure that it won;t be satisfactory.

The above linked videos were put on by the LGBTQ... They have used that in the title of the video.

L - Lesbian - Specific Sexual acts
G - Gay - Specific Sexual Acts
B - Bisexual - Specific Sexual acts
T - Transgender -
Q - Queer - Associated with the Gay Community due to specific sexual acts.

Now... are you going to tell me that this has absolutely nothing to do with sex.

Yes. Unless you think someone that identifies as cis hetero and reads books to kids about families with mommies and daddies is pushing an agenda of specific heterosexual acts.

If it's possible to be hetero and discuss that without discussing the act of sex, it's possible to do that for the LGBTQ community as well.

Since my kids have been old enough to understand that adults have relationships and get married, they have known that sometimes a man likes a woman (like me) and sometimes men like men (such as my cousin). They also know that sometimes a woman can like a man (just like my mom) and sometimes a woman can like a woman (like my sister and her wife). They also know that there's nothing wrong with feeling that way.

I just covered Lesbian and Gay without sex. How the hell is it so hard for you to separate the person from the sex act?