Does Trump ever do any jail time? (1 Viewer)

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cuddlemonkey

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Let's not forget that Congress and SCOTUS do have plenty of power and can handcuff the President if they feel its necessary.
McConnell has abdicated all power to the White House. What has he ever done that gives you reason to believe he will do anything to check him now?
 

DaveXA

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McConnell has abdicated all power to the White House. What has he ever done that gives you reason to believe he will do anything to check him now?
Because a coup is something completely different than anything we've talked about regarding Trump. This is a power issue. McConnell and the rest of Congress, whether Democrat or Republican will not stand for Congress being sidelined by Trump. It's not going to happen. And the military isn't going to attack it's own citizens. It's unthinkable.

That said, we're getting way ahead of the process. Let it play out and see where we are after November 20 (I think) when the states have completed their certifications.
 

Lapaz

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Because a coup is something completely different than anything we've talked about regarding Trump. This is a power issue. McConnell and the rest of Congress, whether Democrat or Republican will not stand for Congress being sidelined by Trump. It's not going to happen. And the military isn't going to attack it's own citizens. It's unthinkable.

That said, we're getting way ahead of the process. Let it play out and see where we are after November 20 (I think) when the states have completed their certifications.
Before Trump, much of what the Justice Department has done was unthinkable. If Trump declares martial law, I think he has a right to use the military. Would the military disobey their current Commander and Chief? Seemed unthinkable, but 72M people voted for a man that seemed to be dismantling our democratic checks and balances. So many things were unthinkable until Trump formed his cult, that I no longer think much is unthinkable.

Do you think Trump will leave office willingly? If not, what do you think will happen? If so, why do you think he’ll leave willingly? Either one seems unthinkable.
 

DaveXA

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Before Trump, much of what the Justice Department has done was unthinkable. If Trump declares martial law, I think he has a right to use the military. Would the military disobey their current Commander and Chief? Seemed unthinkable, but 72M people voted for a man that seemed to be dismantling our democratic checks and balances. So many things were unthinkable until Trump formed his cult, that I no longer think much is unthinkable.

Do you think Trump will leave office willingly? If not, what do you think will happen? If so, why do you think he’ll leave willingly? Either one seems unthinkable.
It's simple. I don't know if he'll leave on his own. I suspect he will. If he doesn't leave on his own, he'll be forcefully evicted by the Secret Service because at that point the transfer of power to Biden will have been completed and they'll have to answer to Biden, not Trump at that point. Unthinkable. Hopefully it doesn't get to that point.

As for martial law, I'm not convinced he has the authority to unilaterally declare martial law. Congress and SCOTUS would no doubt shoot that effort down if he does try. He'd have to basically dissolve Congress to be able to do what you're proposing he do. I don't think it will. You can continue the conspiracy theories. I'm done addressing it though.
 

cuddlemonkey

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It's simple. I don't know if he'll leave on his own. I suspect he will. If he doesn't leave on his own, he'll be forcefully evicted by the Secret Service because at that point the transfer of power to Biden will have been completed and they'll have to answer to Biden, not Trump at that point. Unthinkable. Hopefully it doesn't get to that point.

As for martial law, I'm not convinced he has the authority to unilaterally declare martial law. Congress and SCOTUS would no doubt shoot that effort down if he does try. He'd have to basically dissolve Congress to be able to do what you're proposing he do. I don't think it will. You can continue the conspiracy theories. I'm done addressing it though.
I am 99.99% sure you are right. The fact that I am not 100% sure is frightening to me. That's how far outside the norm we are right now.
 

Foreign National

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McConnell has abdicated all power to the White House. What has he ever done that gives you reason to believe he will do anything to check him now?
Hopefully Mr McConnell won’t put up with as much now that Mr Trump’s usefulness is running very low. He has to balance that with the voters who will remain a consideration even after Mr Trump is gone.
 

dtc

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But that's not what's at stake here. What's at stake is people getting their political payback for alleged crimes that were insufficient for an actual impeachment conviction. It's possible that SDNY has the goods and they can litigate that when he leaves office. He'll either leave or forcibly be removed if he refuses. There are protocols for something like that happening.

I never wanted Trump elected to begin with and I think he's terrible, but he's not worth wasting an ounce on. He'll be out of office in a few months and we can try and figure out a way forward at that point.
I've said this a number of times, but you are too nice. Maybe that's not true, but you're certainly nicer than me. It makes sense that you would be because your faith and observance seem so genuine, but nice isn't what we need.

IMHO, we need law and order. If Trump broke the law, he should be drawn and quartered. If his legions of followers act out, then they should be dealt with no differently than looters, rioters, murderers and other criminals.

Justice is supposed to be blind, compassionate and final. It's time we return to that in this nation.
 

dtc

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Good luck pinning that on him and proving that in a court of law. I don't disagree with the sentiment, but I don't see him ever being convicted of that.
Today on national TV broadcast from the White House we listened to a sitting President still clearly gasping for air due to covid or his general obesity. Between his little gasps he uttered lie after lie after lie.

He told us Pfizer was part of his Operation Warp Speed.

He told us that it was his actions that have resulted in a still unproven vaccine.

He blatantly lied about the words of the sittingNY Governor, Cuomo, and threatened to withhold lifesaving aid from Americans in NY due to the words of a sitting governor.

He told us that we are seeing an avalanche of new cases because we test too much and he told us that every request for PPE made by the states was fulfilled immediately.

For those lies alone he should be re-impeached or removed under the 25th Amendment.

There is no more gray area nor tolerance available from me for those who continue to support his refusal to accept the election and the gravity of his mental condition and the acts he's undertaking are of cataclysmic potential. Without exaggeration, his instability and infirmity could lead to a mass extinction event.

It's time for him to go.
 
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Lapaz

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It's simple. I don't know if he'll leave on his own. I suspect he will. If he doesn't leave on his own, he'll be forcefully evicted by the Secret Service because at that point the transfer of power to Biden will have been completed and they'll have to answer to Biden, not Trump at that point. Unthinkable. Hopefully it doesn't get to that point.

As for martial law, I'm not convinced he has the authority to unilaterally declare martial law. Congress and SCOTUS would no doubt shoot that effort down if he does try. He'd have to basically dissolve Congress to be able to do what you're proposing he do. I don't think it will. You can continue the conspiracy theories. I'm done addressing it though.
So I reconsidered my agreement that what I’m concerned about is a conspiracy theory. A conspiracy theory is an explanation for something that has already happened. I’m theorizing about Trump’s motives and that his limited options include a coup. Trump doesn’t have to dissolve congress nor the courts. All he needs is the military to back him. The courts can exclaim whatever they want, but who enforces their edicts? It can be officers of the court, but the military can stop any of these officials. Trump can order the military. If they obey, that’s all he needs. That’s all any dictator has ever needed.
 

dtc

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Because a coup is something completely different than anything we've talked about regarding Trump. This is a power issue. McConnell and the rest of Congress, whether Democrat or Republican will not stand for Congress being sidelined by Trump. It's not going to happen. And the military isn't going to attack it's own citizens. It's unthinkable.

That said, we're getting way ahead of the process. Let it play out and see where we are after November 20 (I think) when the states have completed their certifications.
They've already done it.
 

Goatman saint

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First, the military would never support Trump in this situation. If 50 states certify their results, and the electoral college votes in Biden, the military will never go against 250 or so years to support Trump.
Also, I highly doubt he does time. But, I do absolutely believe NY will go after bankrupting him. This time for good. If Deutsch Bank is true with pulling the support of the loans, he becomes a worthless burden to everyone else.
Between his taxes, insurance frauds (rumored) his campaign finance stuff that I’m sure has happened, they won’t send home to jail, they will hit him where it counts.
The reason I think this is he moved his home to Florida (Mar a Lago) which under Florida law they can’t take away. Now, it will be interesting to see if Florida allows what is, and always has been a business be counted as a home.
 

Lapaz

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First, the military would never support Trump in this situation. If 50 states certify their results, and the electoral college votes in Biden, the military will never go against 250 or so years to support Trump.
Also, I highly doubt he does time. But, I do absolutely believe NY will go after bankrupting him. This time for good. If Deutsch Bank is true with pulling the support of the loans, he becomes a worthless burden to everyone else.
Between his taxes, insurance frauds (rumored) his campaign finance stuff that I’m sure has happened, they won’t send home to jail, they will hit him where it counts.
The reason I think this is he moved his home to Florida (Mar a Lago) which under Florida law they can’t take away. Now, it will be interesting to see if Florida allows what is, and always has been a business be counted as a home.
I also think the military will PROBABLY not support Trump, but we can not know that for sure. Trump has installed some loyalists who may now be discussing who else is loyal to him, and how they would have to couch military orders to convince the military to support taking control. Some people are comforted because they think that the Joint Chief's of Staff are in command, and General Mark Milley wouldn't support a coup, but the JCS are not in the chain of command of troops per the Goldwater-Nichols DOD Reorganization Act of 1986. The chain of command is president to secretary of defense whose now a loyalist to combatant commander who I don't think is a loyalist. All that Trump would have to do is assure the Northcom Combatant Commander is a loyalist, and that would give him command of the troops in the U.S. If the orders came down from the Combatant Commander, there will be chaos which I can't predict. I think a coup is unlikely, but I don't think it is more than 99% unlikely. I don't know what the odds are, but Trump is trying to improve his odds, because he is in grave danger of going to jail if he can't pull it off.
 

MT15

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Do you think Trump is actually well versed in the nuance of the military command structure? He couldn’t possibly pull this off. So:

He would have to have help. I don’t think much of the people around Trump, there are only a couple who could probably be of any help at all. I really don’t think they are wanting a coup, though, one of them (Pompeo) wants to run for President in 2024.

This type of military coup isn’t going to happen, IMO. He’s just trying to grift money from the clueless base, and damage the Biden administration as much as he can before he goes.

I also think he doesn’t think he will go to jail, (I don’t either, unless more than tax fraud and insurance fraud is found). He’s gotten away with this stuff for his entire life. He doesn’t think he will do any jail time now, IMO.
 

GMRfellowtraveller

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First, the military would never support Trump in this situation. If 50 states certify their results, and the electoral college votes in Biden, the military will never go against 250 or so years to support Trump.
Also, I highly doubt he does time. But, I do absolutely believe NY will go after bankrupting him. This time for good. If Deutsch Bank is true with pulling the support of the loans, he becomes a worthless burden to everyone else.
Between his taxes, insurance frauds (rumored) his campaign finance stuff that I’m sure has happened, they won’t send home to jail, they will hit him where it counts.
The reason I think this is he moved his home to Florida (Mar a Lago) which under Florida law they can’t take away. Now, it will be interesting to see if Florida allows what is, and always has been a business be counted as a home.
then he just goers on TV and yammers fulltime and markets Trump Depends and Trump Catheters and Trump Commemorative Plates
i'm for throwing him under the border detention center or forcing him to manually dismantle the few parts of his wall that were built, BUT i definitely don't want him being a political martyr, so i'll take exile in ignominy and all the adult kids, jared, miller, bannon, et al being the ones who do actual time
 

DaveXA

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then he just goers on TV and yammers fulltime and markets Trump Depends and Trump Catheters and Trump Commemorative Plates
i'm for throwing him under the border detention center or forcing him to manually dismantle the few parts of his wall that were built, BUT i definitely don't want him being a political martyr, so i'll take exile in ignominy and all the adult kids, jared, miller, bannon, et al being the ones who do actual time
Yeah, it's gotta be ironclad and I agree, making him a martyr would be much worse than a political exile. If it gets the rest of the Trumpers out of politics, that would be great.
 

J-DONK

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Former acting FBI director Andrew McCabe has warned that classified intelligence from bureau’s investigation into President Donald Trump’s 2016 campaign ties to Russia could contain information that would “risk casting the president in a very negative light”.
 

not2rich

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Seriously, the best thing for the country would be for Trump to stroke out and die within the next year,
 

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