Does Trump ever do any jail time? (1 Viewer)

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Optimus Prime

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Looks like Biden is going with 'We can't do that do the country" with a side of "For the nation to heal we need to move on"
==========================================

WASHINGTON — President-elect Joe Biden has privately told advisers that he doesn't want his presidency to be consumed by investigations of his predecessor, according to five people familiar with the discussions, despite pressure from some Democrats who want inquiries into President Donald Trump, his policies and members of his administration.

Biden has raised concerns that investigations would further divide a country he is trying to unite and risk making every day of his presidency about Trump, said the sources, who spoke on background to offer details of private conversations.

They said he has specifically told advisers that he is wary of federal tax investigations of Trump or of challenging any orders Trump may issue granting immunity to members of his staff before he leaves office. One adviser said Biden has made it clear that he "just wants to move on."

Another Biden adviser said, "He's going to be more oriented toward fixing the problems and moving forward than prosecuting them."...............

 

Saint by the Bay

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Looks like Biden is going with 'We can't do that do the country" with a side of "For the nation to heal we need to move on"
==========================================

WASHINGTON — President-elect Joe Biden has privately told advisers that he doesn't want his presidency to be consumed by investigations of his predecessor, according to five people familiar with the discussions, despite pressure from some Democrats who want inquiries into President Donald Trump, his policies and members of his administration.

Biden has raised concerns that investigations would further divide a country he is trying to unite and risk making every day of his presidency about Trump, said the sources, who spoke on background to offer details of private conversations.

They said he has specifically told advisers that he is wary of federal tax investigations of Trump or of challenging any orders Trump may issue granting immunity to members of his staff before he leaves office. One adviser said Biden has made it clear that he "just wants to move on."

Another Biden adviser said, "He's going to be more oriented toward fixing the problems and moving forward than prosecuting them."...............

The SDNY won't care what he wants any more than they cared what Trump wants. Neither will the House, which is going to do all the investigating they were blocked from doing the last 4 years. They are going to want to destroy Trumpism, but ultimately I think the investigations will just strengthen it and make him a martyr.
 
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The Washington Post's response to Biden's stance
================================

................We’ve heard this idea that we should “move on” before. Twelve years ago, Barack Obama said that when it came to the fact that his predecessor had initiated a program of torturing prisoners that was not only a moral abomination but also did incalculable harm to America’s image in the world, “we need to look forward as opposed to looking backwards.”

No one was ever held accountable in any way. So what would happen to an official who was an active participant in the torture program, first overseeing a “black site” where torture took place, and later supporting the destruction of videotape evidence showing the brutality of the agency’s torture program? In a country where moral principles reigned, she wouldn’t be able to get a job in a McDonald’s, so profound would be the disgust at her actions. But today she’s the director of the CIA..........

Which leads to this disheartening line in the NBC News story:

One of the reasons [Biden] has given aides is that he believes investigations would alienate the more than 73 million Americans who voted for Trump, the people familiar with the discussions said.
You have got to be kidding me.

Those 73 million Americans voted for the most corrupt president in American history, a con man and a liar and a bigot and a tax cheat and a sexual predator and someone who as we speak is poisoning our democracy on his way out the door. And Biden is worried that exposing his misdeeds will hurt their feelings?..........

 

DaveXA

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The SDNY won't care what he wants any more than they cared what Trump wants. Neither will the House, which is going to do all the investigating they were blocked from doing the last 4 years. They are going to want to destroy Trumpism, but ultimately I think the investigations will just strengthen it and make him a martyr.
Yeah, I agree with Biden. But, unfortunately not a lot of people will. Meh.
 

Lapaz

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Looks like Biden is going with 'We can't do that do the country" with a side of "For the nation to heal we need to move on"
==========================================

WASHINGTON — President-elect Joe Biden has privately told advisers that he doesn't want his presidency to be consumed by investigations of his predecessor, according to five people familiar with the discussions, despite pressure from some Democrats who want inquiries into President Donald Trump, his policies and members of his administration.

Biden has raised concerns that investigations would further divide a country he is trying to unite and risk making every day of his presidency about Trump, said the sources, who spoke on background to offer details of private conversations.

They said he has specifically told advisers that he is wary of federal tax investigations of Trump or of challenging any orders Trump may issue granting immunity to members of his staff before he leaves office. One adviser said Biden has made it clear that he "just wants to move on."

Another Biden adviser said, "He's going to be more oriented toward fixing the problems and moving forward than prosecuting them."...............

I understand Biden's desire to not be consumed by Trump's crimes, but prosecuting Trump will disincentivize future presidents from committing similar crimes. While it is dangerous to prosecute your opponent, if the crimes are real, then it could be the best legacy of all. I hope he at least reviews the crimes, and doesn't close the door on that. He may be saying this to appease Trumpers to reduce the resistance to the transition.

If we don't prosecute Trump, then we need to make sure that the next Trump can not destroy our checks and balances. We need to put laws in place to close the weaknesses in our system. The norms are not adequate. We need laws to prevent a president from ever abusing the office as badly as Trump has. That includes protecting the independence of the Justice Department and the FBI, since those are the departments that would have the most power to investigate the Executive Department. If they are fired, then it should require approval from congress, subject to veto by the president, and then a super majority override. I also want more independence for Inspector Generals. Presidents should not be able to fire them. I think they should be congressional employees, rather than executive branch employees, and only fired by a committee super majority that should oversee their work. Also, I want reforms of the pardon power. No president should be able to pardon anyone that is involved in a prosecution involving the president, and certainly clarify that you can't pardon yourself. We need laws of the electoral college to assure that legislatures can not override their citizen's votes without a supermajority vote and judicial approval. That needs to be ironclad, not easily manipulated by political pressure.
 

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The Washington Post's response to Biden's stance
================================

................We’ve heard this idea that we should “move on” before. Twelve years ago, Barack Obama said that when it came to the fact that his predecessor had initiated a program of torturing prisoners that was not only a moral abomination but also did incalculable harm to America’s image in the world, “we need to look forward as opposed to looking backwards.”

No one was ever held accountable in any way. So what would happen to an official who was an active participant in the torture program, first overseeing a “black site” where torture took place, and later supporting the destruction of videotape evidence showing the brutality of the agency’s torture program? In a country where moral principles reigned, she wouldn’t be able to get a job in a McDonald’s, so profound would be the disgust at her actions. But today she’s the director of the CIA..........

Which leads to this disheartening line in the NBC News story:


You have got to be kidding me.

Those 73 million Americans voted for the most corrupt president in American history, a con man and a liar and a bigot and a tax cheat and a sexual predator and someone who as we speak is poisoning our democracy on his way out the door. And Biden is worried that exposing his misdeeds will hurt their feelings?..........

It really isn't about anyone's feelings. It's about the government not being bogged down in stuff that has nothing to do with changing policy. Focus on the agenda. Let the investigative agencies do their work and move on. I'm with Biden on his goals of looking forward rather than back. The Trump stuff will ultimately be pointless. Let SDNY try to prosecute him. Hopefully that sticks.
 

DaveXA

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I understand Biden's desire to not be consumed by Trump's crimes, but prosecuting Trump will disincentivize future presidents from committing similar crimes. While it is dangerous to prosecute your opponent, if the crimes are real, then it could be the best legacy of all. I hope he at least reviews the crimes, and doesn't close the door on that. He may be saying this to appease Trumpers to reduce the resistance to the transition.

If we don't prosecute Trump, then we need to make sure that the next Trump can not destroy our checks and balances. We need to put laws in place to close the weaknesses in our system. The norms are not adequate. We need laws to prevent a president from ever abusing the office as badly as Trump has. That includes protecting the independence of the Justice Department and the FBI, since those are the departments that would have the most power to investigate the Executive Department. If they are fired, then it should require approval from congress, subject to veto by the president, and then a super majority override. I also want more independence for Inspector Generals. Presidents should not be able to fire them. I think they should be congressional employees, rather than executive branch employees, and only fired by a committee super majority that should oversee their work. Also, I want reforms of the pardon power. No president should be able to pardon anyone that is involved in a prosecution involving the president, and certainly clarify that you can't pardon yourself. We need laws of the electoral college to assure that legislatures can not override their citizen's votes without a supermajority vote and judicial approval. That needs to be ironclad, not easily manipulated by political pressure.
I'm more about initiating reforms to prevent future Presidents from doing the stuff Trump did. Also clarifying and codifying things like business entanglements that could potentially cause conflicts of interest, increasing transparency, requiring disclosure of tax records prior to being allowed to run for President. Stuff like that. That would be more meaningful than just trying to prosecute Trump which would no doubt consume Washington and miss a chance to impact future policy changes for the better.
 

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I'm a bit torn on this one. I think Biden's stance is a noble one and he should be focused on fixing the country, no argument there.

On the other hand, this country is broken because of Trump and his minions. That should not go unpunished....what's that old saying about history repeating itself?

In the end I hope SDNY has enough criminal evidence to make the rest of his life very difficult for him...
 

zztop

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You have got to be kidding me.

Those 73 million Americans voted for the most corrupt president in American history, a con man and a liar and a bigot and a tax cheat and a sexual predator and someone who as we speak is poisoning our democracy on his way out the door. And Biden is worried that exposing his misdeeds will hurt their feelings?..........
I agree, how many chances should they be given. I remember how Obama would try to reach out the the (R) and try to compromise, my feeling was it just made him look weak (to the republicans) and they didn't try to compromise in good faith in return. No, all they did was vilify him even more. Those people who voted for trump are just as bad as he is. At least in my opinion they are complicit in every action he has taken in the past 4 years. And sadly most(all?) that voted for him don't have any problem with the things he did. The country won't be healed any time soon. It might take another generation. We might all be dead by then before we see it, who knows
 
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I'm more about initiating reforms to prevent future Presidents from doing the stuff Trump did. Also clarifying and codifying things like business entanglements that could potentially cause conflicts of interest, increasing transparency, requiring disclosure of tax records prior to being allowed to run for President. Stuff like that. That would be more meaningful than just trying to prosecute Trump which would no doubt consume Washington and miss a chance to impact future policy changes for the better.
Why does preventing future presidents from doing what Trump did and investigating and prosecuting Trump for what he did an either or situation?



 

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Why does preventing future presidents from doing what Trump did and investigating and prosecuting Trump for what he did an either or situation?



Because one can derail the other. If we can have both, that's fine. But I suspect spending all our time on one will get in the way of the other one being accomplished. Better to get most or all of one than little to nothing from both, imho.
 

efil4

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Because one can derail the other. If we can have both, that's fine. But I suspect spending all our time on one will get in the way of the other one being accomplished. Better to get most or all of one than little to nothing from both, imho.
Biden wont have to do any investigation.

I think had Trump immediately conceded election and acted like an adult, there would have been some movement behind the scenes to mitigate what was coming.

I think that his actions post election has soured any opportunity to mitigate his issues
 

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Biden wont have to do any investigation.

I think had Trump immediately conceded election and acted like an adult, there would have been some movement behind the scenes to mitigate what was coming.

I think that his actions post election has soured any opportunity to mitigate his issues
Maybe in some circles. But there certainly are groups who wanted their pound of flesh no matter what he did.

That said, he made his mess. Now he's gonna have to deal with the fallout. No one to blame but himself.
 

LA - L.A.

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I'm a bit torn on this one. I think Biden's stance is a noble one and he should be focused on fixing the country, no argument there.

On the other hand, this country is broken because of Trump and his minions. That should not go unpunished....what's that old saying about history repeating itself?

In the end I hope SDNY has enough criminal evidence to make the rest of his life very difficult for him...
Biden knows he and we can do both at the same time. It's pure, rationalized BS and fear to make excuses for not holding Trump accountable. If we are afraid to hold people accountable, then we will continue to devolve as a society and erode our adherence to our constitutional principles.
 

LA - L.A.

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Because one can derail the other. If we can have both, that's fine. But I suspect spending all our time on one will get in the way of the other one being accomplished. Better to get most or all of one than little to nothing from both, imho.
We can spend all the time that is needed for both at the same time. The idea that we only have enough time for one or the other is absurdly false.
 

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We can spend all the time that is needed for both at the same time. The idea that we only have enough time for one or the other is absurdly false.
I'm not talking about time, although that can be an issue. I'm speaking more towards poisoning the well. As bad and messed up our Congress is, it would be straight war until it is either ended or one party takes over the entire process. It's going to be a tragic mess. If you think that's worth going through, ok. But I don't.

That poisoning the well will lead to one or the other happening but almost certainly not both imho.

And this is from someone who despises Trump. Let him be prosecuted by the SDNY and hope that's enough to keep him away from politics at least in the near term.
 

LA - L.A.

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I'm not talking about time ...
But I suspect spending all our time on one will get in the way of the other one being accomplished.
You literally said "spending all of our time" which clearly implies we don't have enough time to do both.

Poisoning the well has nothing to do with time. That can be done in short order. Look how little time and effort it takes for Trump to poison wells. People who poison wells, are going to try to poison those wells no matter what anyone else does or doesn't do.

We built this country on the courage to stand up and fight for what is right. We are losing this country because too many people are now too afraid to stand up and fight for what is right.
 

DaveXA

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You literally said "spending all of our time" which clearly implies we don't have enough time to do both.

Poisoning the well has nothing to do with time. That can be done in short order. Look how little time and effort it takes for Trump to poison wells.
Yeah, my first quip was a bit of a short sighted first blush comment. But you're right it's not a time issue as much as whether Congress would be willing to war over it.
 

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