Does Trump ever do any jail time? (3 Viewers)

[Optimus Prime]

Everything I've seen and heard says that the split second Donald Trump is no longer president there will be flood of charges waiting for him

And if he resigns and Pence pardons him there are a ton of state charges as an understudy waiting in the wings if the fed charges can't perform

What do you think the likelihood of there being a jail sentence?

In every movie and TV show I've ever seen, in every political thriller I've ever read about a criminal and corrupt president there is ALWAYS some version of;

"We can't do that to the country",

"A trial would tear the country apart",

"For the nation to heal we need to move on" etc.

Would life imitate art?

Even with the charges, even with the proof the charges are true will the powers that be decide, "we can't do that to the country"?

 

[insidejob]

This is kind of like an old Western movie

Small town ruled by a local gang leader - Big Donnie

Everyone wants him gone but are scared to death of him and his gang and decides it best to leave well enough alone

A new sheriff comes to town and decides enough is enough and bring him to justice

No one wants him to do it because the wrath could be painful, but the sheriff does it, the town rallies and justice prevails

The line has to be drawn somewhere

During 2016 Trump famously said "I can shoot someone in the middle of 5th Avenue and not lose any voters"

are we okay with that turning that into "I can shoot someone in the middle of 5th Avenue and not get arrested"


start at 29 seconds

That was basically the premise of a Criminal Minds episode too, actually. But it was the Feds that came in and exposed the corruption and all that entailed.

 

[donato]

Two questions:

1. Do we still have the number for the three amigos?

2. Can we sew?

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Two questions:

1. Do we still have the number for the three amigos?

2. Can we sew?

3. Has Jefe figured out what is a 'plethora'?

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

The only way Trump will do jail time is if there's clear and overwhelming evidence of major criminal wrong doing. If it's tax avoidance or something along those lines, he'll pay a fine and move on.

If it's money laundering, the case will need to be super air tight, not rely on anything circumstantial and so on.

There absolutely are two standards of justice, but in this case I support it. The harm any indictment would cause would outweigh the good unless the evidence is super clear and overwhelming.

 

[MT15]

The kids are fair game, though, right? (Only half serious)

 

[wardorican]

This is just a random comment i came across on a random website- so I’m not posting it as truth.. but does anyone think there might be a kernel of truth here, and and might Help explain the firing of Esper today?



.

I don't think we should post this kind of drivel we 'stumble' upon.

 

[Mr. Blue Sky]

I don't think we should post this kind of drivel we 'stumble' upon.

Fair enough, i went to great pains to say that i only wonder if that’s part of the reason why Trump might have fired Esper, and not to state anything as gospel truth.. but feel free to delete.


So why do YOU think Trump fired Esper?

 

[Saint by the Bay]

Fair enough, i went to great pains to say that i only wonder if that’s part of the reason why Trump might have fired Esper, and not to state anything as gospel truth.. but feel free to delete.


So why do YOU think Trump fired Esper?

I think it's simple grievance from the BLM protest fiasco in DC when Esper wouldn't play ball. Plus Esper would never kiss the ring, that's what Trump hated about him and Mattis. He didn't just fire Esper, he did it in the most disrespectful way possible as he did with Comey. That was a grudge, not policy.

 

[wardorican]

I think it's simple grievance from the BLM protest fiasco in DC when Esper wouldn't play ball. Plus Esper would never kiss the ring, that's what Trump hated about him and Mathis. He didn't just fire Esper, he did it in the most disrespectful way possible as he did with Comey. That was a grudge, not policy.

This. Esper even alluded to it.

 

[Lapaz]

I think a civil war is a stretch, but I do think there would be violent clashes in the street that will go on for some time (I'm still not convinced we won't get there just with the election).

That's going to lead to people dead in the street and for what? Cheating on his taxes? Campaign finance violations? Obstruction of justice?

None of that cost lives. Fine the ever-loving hell out of him, shame him and move on. I don't want to see anyone die over any of that.

What about ignoring the bounties on Americans by the Russians? What about downplaying the gravity of Covid? So in addition to white collar crimes, he has indirectly committed murder. Isn't that reckless manslaughter?

 

[DaveXA]

What about ignoring the bounties on Americans by the Russians? What about downplaying the gravity of Covid? So in addition to white collar crimes, he has indirectly committed murder. Isn't that reckless manslaughter?

Good luck pinning that on him and proving that in a court of law. I don't disagree with the sentiment, but I don't see him ever being convicted of that.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

What about ignoring the bounties on Americans by the Russians? What about downplaying the gravity of Covid? So in addition to white collar crimes, he has indirectly committed murder. Isn't that reckless manslaughter?

If incompetence or loss of life due to political calculation was a crime we would have to build more jails. This was the Republican position on Benghazi with Hillary and Obama (they should be in jail because people died due to their inaction). I don't think we want to get into locking up politicians on those grounds. Washington DC would quickly become a very quiet neighborhood (50% of Congress was complicit on downplaying COVID alone).

 

[Lapaz]

If incompetence or loss of life due to political calculation was a crime we would have to build more jails. This was the Republican position on Benghazi with Hillary and Obama (they should be in jail because people died due to their inaction). I don't think we want to get into locking up politicians on those grounds. Washington DC would quickly become a very quiet neighborhood (50% of Congress was complicit on downplaying COVID alone).

A few people died at Benghazi, and the errors were not gigantic like they have been with Covid. Some of the problem has been incompetence, and some has been intentionally lying to the public to affect their behavior. The Russian bounty on our soldiers matter is also not about incompetence.

 

[LA - L.A.]

If incompetence or loss of life due to political calculation was a crime we would have to build more jails. This was the Republican position on Benghazi with Hillary and Obama (they should be in jail because people died due to their inaction). I don't think we want to get into locking up politicians on those grounds. Washington DC would quickly become a very quiet neighborhood (50% of Congress was complicit on downplaying COVID alone).

What Trump did in regards to COVID is more than just incompetence or inaction, it was intentionally reckless endangerment. I'm not saying he can or should be charged for it, but let's not falsely frame it as simply incompetence or inaction.

 

[DaveXA]

A few people died at Benghazi, and the errors were not gigantic like they have been with Covid. Some of the problem has been incompetence, and some has been intentionally lying to the public to affect their behavior. The Russian bounty on our soldiers matter is also not about incompetence.

Again, that's a noble view, but good luck getting a court to convict. I just don't see that happening.

 

[DaveXA]

What Trump did in regards to COVID is more than just incompetence or inaction, it was intentionally reckless endangerment. I'm not saying he can or should be charged for it, but let's not falsely frame it as simply incompetence or inaction.

However you define it, the result is going to be the same. I thought it was reckless, and have thought so ever since he claimed to shut down all travel from China, which in and of itself was a farce. I personally know people who flew from China to the US during that no travel order. It had no teeth. My brother in laws flew into to states from S. Korea when Covid was rapidly spreading there.

When they arrived, they were not checked or tested or required to do anything different than pre-Covid. It was a joke.

I would have liked something to have been done about it, but short of getting impeached, there was nothing anyone could do other than protest in the streets.

 

[Taurus]

Well, he's looking at one count of campaign finance fraud, at least. Probably more.
Plus, multiple counts of obstruction of justice.
Solicitation of bribery.
Violations of the Hatch Act too numerous to mention.
The Emoluments Clause, though Yahweh only knows who's got standing to pursue it. (Another of the things we really need to fix, now that we're aware.)

 

[DaveXA]

Well, he's looking at one count of campaign finance fraud, at least. Probably more.
Plus, multiple counts of obstruction of justice.
Solicitation of bribery.
Violations of the Hatch Act too numerous to mention.
The Emoluments Clause, though Yahweh only knows who's got standing to pursue it. (Another of the things we really need to fix, now that we're aware.)

And I hope they can make it stick after he's out of office. I'm not optimistic it will happen though. SDNY is probably the best bet to see him convicted of something.