Critical race theory (6 Viewers)

[DaveXA]

Frankly, I'm completely ignorant when it comes to the Critical Race Theory curriculum. What is it, where does it come from, and is it legitimate? Has anyone here read it and maybe give a quick summary?

If this has been covered in another thread, then I missed it.

 

[samiam5211]

Yes, and no. Greedy banks, yeah, for sure. But, a lot of people, including some banks lost everything because of that greed. One of the largest investment banks went under, and if not for the bailouts, whether you agree with them or not, literally pulled the entire financial system from the brink. I don't think many people realize we were literally days, maybe even hours away from a complete collapse of the financial system. It could have been a whole heck of a lot worse, and it would have been without the bailouts. In a way, I wanted to just let it happen, but, our country would have looked very different after 2008.

Yea, it would have been bad for a while had we not bailed out the banks. I wasn't necessarily saying we shouldn't have bailed them out. Heck, my wife was a banker at the time, they started sending her out to work deals with other banks on credit default swaps, and paying her tons to do it. It wasn't sustainable.

I do wonder though, where would be be now 13 years later if we had just allowed the banks to fail. Would we have a totally overhauled financial system now that might be more equitable and stable than what we have now?

 

[DaveXA]

Yea, it would have been bad for a while had we not bailed out the banks. I wasn't necessarily saying we shouldn't have bailed them out. Heck, my wife was a banker at the time, they started sending her out to work deals with other banks on credit default swaps, and paying her tons to do it. It wasn't sustainable.

I do wonder though, where would be be now 13 years later if we had just allowed the banks to fail. Would we have a totally overhauled financial system now that might be more equitable and stable than what we have now?

That's a good question. I think it would have been, but, people are still greedy people and ultimately, it would have ended up back where we started, to some degree.

 

[Paul]

There was a single cause. The greed of the people running the banks.

Credit default swap - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The banks and traders were going to profit whether the loans they made were paid off or not. Tricks like credit default swaps were 100% to blame for the 2008 financial crisis.

The top 1% screwed us and then we bailed them out.

If it helps you accept the truth, i am sure a handful of those bankers were non whites.

Nothing is due to a single cause.
BTW, it would be racist to assume only white people can be greedy.
Thanks for the clarification.

The point I have been trying to make is that a greedy capitalists will not be racist if he or she can make money by not being racist.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Agree 100%.
BTW, it would be racist to assume only white people can be greedy.
Thanks for the clarification.

In fact the reason we had a Real Estate debacle in 2088 was because lenders gave too many large loans to unqualified minorities who then defaulted on the loans

but for some reason not racist at all to say the cause of the Great Recession was “unqualified minorities”

 

[samiam5211]

but for some reason not racist at all to say the cause of the Great Recession was “unqualified minorities”

It seems like he often says "I agree, that thing i said earlier is racist"

 

[Paul]

Yea, it would have been bad for a while had we not bailed out the banks. I wasn't necessarily saying we shouldn't have bailed them out. Heck, my wife was a banker at the time, they started sending her out to work deals with other banks on credit default swaps, and paying her tons to do it. It wasn't sustainable.

I do wonder though, where would be be now 13 years later if we had just allowed the banks to fail. Would we have a totally overhauled financial system now that might be more equitable and stable than what we have now?

I just remember that the root of the debacle can be traced back to Bill Clinton. It is one of those classic good intention programs that end up in disaster.

Minorities’ Home Ownership Booms Under Clinton but Still Lags Whites’​

Minorities' Home Ownership Booms Under Clinton but Still Lags Whites'

It's one of the hidden success stories of the Clinton era.

www.latimes.com

In the end minorities that bought homes ended up underwater with homes that were valued much less than the principal of the mortgage. This was very much like the student loans for college debacle. Another well intentioned program that turns into hell. I was lucky because I live in the recession proof area of Washington DC and suburbs. My home did not lose any value.

 

[Paul]

but for some reason not racist at all to say the cause of the Great Recession was “unqualified minorities”

Thanks for the clarification. I am happy to admit I mispoke.

 

[Paul]

It seems like he often says "I agree, that thing i said earlier is racist"

1. Discuss the topic, not the poster. It is not your job to question someone's intelligence, motives or ability to respond to you in the way you would like. In fact, when you re-read your post before hitting send, which I recommend you do, if you have used the word "you," it would be a good idea to ask yourself if you should delete that comment. Making veiled insults are bad enough ("anyone who thinks that would have to be stupid"), but most of the offending posts I have seen after reviewing the last couple of days are direct insults. The way Farb was treated in one thread is totally unacceptable. You don't like the way he or any other member posts? Do NOT speak to that member with disrespect. If you can't discuss the topic without referring to the poster (or "people who think that way"), you would be better served to step away from the keyboard. It is a relatively simple concept -- don't talk to or about other members in a negative or confrontational way.

 

[samiam5211]

I just remember that the root of the debacle can be traced back to Bill Clinton. It is one of those classic good intention programs that end up in disaster.

Minorities’ Home Ownership Booms Under Clinton but Still Lags Whites’​

Minorities' Home Ownership Booms Under Clinton but Still Lags Whites'

It's one of the hidden success stories of the Clinton era.

www.latimes.com

In the end minorities that bought homes ended up underwater with homes that were valued much less than the principal of the mortgage. This was very much like the student loans for college debacle. Another well intentioned program that turns into hell. I was lucky because I live in the recession proof area of Washington DC and suburbs. My home did not lose any value.

Nope.

That didn't create credit default swaps. Keep blaming efforts to increase minority home ownership, and then claim you aren't racist.

 

[samiam5211]

1. Discuss the topic, not the poster. It is not your job to question someone's intelligence, motives or ability to respond to you in the way you would like. In fact, when you re-read your post before hitting send, which I recommend you do, if you have used the word "you," it would be a good idea to ask yourself if you should delete that comment. Making veiled insults are bad enough ("anyone who thinks that would have to be stupid"), but most of the offending posts I have seen after reviewing the last couple of days are direct insults. The way Farb was treated in one thread is totally unacceptable. You don't like the way he or any other member posts? Do NOT speak to that member with disrespect. If you can't discuss the topic without referring to the poster (or "people who think that way"), you would be better served to step away from the keyboard. It is a relatively simple concept -- don't talk to or about other members in a negative or confrontational way.

You really aren't going to like the post above this one.

I'm sorry i keep accusing you of acting like a racist. I'm attacking your words, not you. Nothing personal.

 

[Paul]

You really aren't going to like the post above this one.

I'm sorry i keep accusing you of acting like a racist. I'm attacking your words, not you. Nothing personal.

More form the guidelines.

2. Discuss the topic. If your purpose in posting on a thread is to belittle, scoring points with people who think like you or make someone else look bad, stay out of the thread. The idea is to have an exchange of ideas. It is possible to learn something from someone with a different point of view. Each thread is not a game to determine who can make more points before others with opposing views give up. Try to offer something of value to the discussion. There is nothing wrong with stating opinions or supporting the opinion of someone else. That can make for better discussion. Instead of browbeating someone with a different opinion though, try asking questions. I'm not talking about questions leading to a gotcha moment, but rather questions that can help you understand why they think the way they do and maybe even help them question their own position without making them feel defensive. It's the difference between being an interested participant in a discussion and being a jerk.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

Speaking generally here, not about anyone specifically. I'm just musing a little bit about human behavior.

There's a phenomena that happens with some people when they envy other ethnic groups that they try and "fit in" by showing that group they are aligned with them. It happened to me as a kid. Having spent my early school years in an all-white neighborhood where I was called the N-word daily, jumped, and humiliated, I found myself trying so hard to "fit in" as a young man. It was my way of trying to assimilate. It affected how I spoke, what I claimed to be interested in, and my opinion of other black people. Fortunately, by the time I reached Jr. High I matured out of that, and the strong natural sense of self-identity and self-reliance I have caused me to find myself in the mess of my young life.

That doesn't happen with everyone. Some people continue to try and "fit in". They call it assimilation. They take illogical and odd opinions that they can't adequately defend because it isn't based on fact but solution shopping for a way to fit in. They may go as far as to puff out their chest with pride repeatedly pointing out their children married whites as if that was a badge of honor because to them it is. Just some random examples there.

Honestly, when I see people like that I feel sorry for them because I was one up until I turned 12. I understand the depth of identity crisis that causes the mindset and it's not a pleasant internal state of being.

 

[DaveXA]

Speaking generally here, not about anyone specifically. I'm just musing a little bit about human behavior.

There's a phenomena that happens with some people when they envy other ethnic groups that they try and "fit in" by showing that group they are aligned with them. It happened to me as a kid. Having spent my early school years in an all-white neighborhood where I was called the N-word daily, jumped, and humiliated, I found myself trying so hard to "fit in" as a young man. It was my way of trying to assimilate. It affected how I spoke, what I claimed to be interested in, and my opinion of other black people. Fortunately, by the time I reached Jr. High I matured out of that, and the strong natural sense of self-identity and self-reliance I have caused me to find myself in the mess of my young life.

That doesn't happen with everyone. Some people continue to try and "fit in". They call it assimilation. They take illogical and odd opinions that they can't adequately defend because it isn't based on fact but solution shopping for a way to fit in. They may go as far as to puff out their chest with pride repeatedly pointing out their children married whites as if that was a badge of honor because to them it is. Just some random examples there.

Honestly, when I see people like that I feel sorry for them because I was one up until I turned 12. I understand the depth of identity crisis that causes the mindset and it's not a pleasant internal state of being.

This was totally me when I was a kid. Being hard of hearing, I never fully fit in with the hearing world, and yet I struggled with fitting in with the deaf world because I was mainstreamed in public schools, so I found myself trying to fit in both worlds and never really succeeding at either. Frustrating.

 

[V Chip]

1. Discuss the topic, not the poster. It is not your job to question someone's intelligence, motives or ability to respond to you in the way you would like. In fact, when you re-read your post before hitting send, which I recommend you do, if you have used the word "you," it would be a good idea to ask yourself if you should delete that comment. Making veiled insults are bad enough ("anyone who thinks that would have to be stupid"), but most of the offending posts I have seen after reviewing the last couple of days are direct insults. The way Farb was treated in one thread is totally unacceptable. You don't like the way he or any other member posts? Do NOT speak to that member with disrespect. If you can't discuss the topic without referring to the poster (or "people who think that way"), you would be better served to step away from the keyboard. It is a relatively simple concept -- don't talk to or about other members in a negative or confrontational way.

 

[Paul]

Miore guidelines:

The idea here is to discuss political topics in hopes that we all learn something. It might not happen in every thread, but it can't happen at all unless we treat each other better. It's been said on here before and I think there is truth in it -- we should discuss topics with people who hold opposing views as if they are a family member like your wife, husband, mother or grandmother. You wouldn't insult them; you would try to gain understanding.

 

[samiam5211]

Miore guidelines:

The idea here is to discuss political topics in hopes that we all learn something. It might not happen in every thread, but it can't happen at all unless we treat each other better. It's been said on here before and I think there is truth in it -- we should discuss topics with people who hold opposing views as if they are a family member like your wife, husband, mother or grandmother. You wouldn't insult them; you would try to gain understanding.

I have told my mother and grandmother that some of the things they say are racist... plenty of times, and it always comes from a place of love.

 

[V Chip]

Miore guidelines:

The idea here is to discuss political topics in hopes that we all learn something. It might not happen in every thread, but it can't happen at all unless we treat each other better. It's been said on here before and I think there is truth in it -- we should discuss topics with people who hold opposing views as if they are a family member like your wife, husband, mother or grandmother. You wouldn't insult them; you would try to gain understanding.

 

[Paul]

I have told my mother and grandmother that some of the things they say are racist... plenty of times, and it always comes from a place of love.

OK, that is great. We can have a discussion about that. Who decides what is racist and what is not racist? I ask the question because it would be easy for a poster to say "that is racist" and walk away without trying to argue a point. Many other posters simply say a few derogatory words and walk away without trying to refute a point.

The great thing about free speech is that we are able to communicate a point and the opposing side can refute the point in a free manner with no fear . If I have to walk on eggshells on a debate then I cannot communicate the ideas I want to transmit.

Do people get offended in debates? Sure! Many do, but that is the price of free speech.