Biden seeking a $15 an hour minimum wage in his Covid relief proposal (1 Viewer)

[Incumbent]

If there’s already a Biden economy thread, I can add this there. It could have gone in the Covid thread, but the impact of this would extend well beyond that topic.

Well past time to raise the minimum wage, which hasn’t been increased since 2009.

Biden to seek $15 minimum wage in COVID-19 proposal

President-elect Joe Biden will include a proposal to raise the federal minimum wage to $15 as part of a COVID-19 relief package, the first major legislation of his presidency.Biden is expected to a…

thehill.com

 

[Killer Clouds]

You should read the article I posted to see why that phrase is racist. You could learn something here and maybe decide that there’s a better way to say what you mean.

Otherwise, I’ll have to assume you’re just a racist and the other conservatives here will just get so mad at me for pointing it out.

I already assume you are a racist so I guess we're even. I also assume you're maybe 12yo or less. Like I said earlier you need to look in the mirror when you call someone a racist. You might also want to learn the meaning of racist. It’s not what [Mod edit - Read the MCB forum rules and conform] have adopted it to be.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

I don't think you understand the law.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

Alright mods. We have someone who is tripling down on his use of a racist phrase, even after being clearly shown that it was a racist phrase.

I can call him a racist now, right?

I don't think that's how it works. It's a very unproductive line of discussion usually.

 

[brandon]

I don't think that's how it works. It's a very unproductive line of discussion usually.

I think it's quite productive to point out when someone is a self-admitted racist.

That informs the entire conversation.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

I think it's quite productive to point out when someone is a self-admitted racist.

That informs the entire conversation.

It doesn't inform the entire conversation, it pretty much ends it, which I guess is ok, but basically it just becomes "You're a racist", "No you are".

I actually thought bringing up how the phrase "Go back to where you came from" has racist connotation, could be a useful discussion if there was willingness to discuss it from @Killer Clouds , but that doesn't seem likely to happen. After that, though, it's pretty much over.

 

[brandon]

It doesn't inform the entire conversation, it pretty much ends it, which I guess is ok, but basically it just becomes "You're a racist", "No you are".

I actually thought bringing up how the phrase "Go back to where you came from" has racist connotation, could be a useful discussion if there was willingness to discuss it from @Killer Clouds , but that doesn't seem likely to happen. After that, though, it's pretty much over.

Well, yea. That's my point. He was given information that showed him that the phrase he was using was racist, and given an opportunity to clarify what he meant. He instead chose to double, then triple down on the racist phrase.

So I'm fine with moving on--just with the stipulation that he's an unapologetic racist.

So yea, pretty much over. But it does inform the rest of the conversation in the sense that any discussion with him is probably going to be unfruitful moving forward if we can't even agree that one of the most universally accepted racist phrases is, in fact, racist.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

Well, yea. That's my point. He was given information that showed him that the phrase he was using was racist, and given an opportunity to clarify what he meant. He instead chose to double, then triple down on the racist phrase.

So I'm fine with moving on--just with the stipulation that he's an unapologetic racist.

So yea, pretty much over.

The problem is, showing that a phrase can have racist connotations doesn't prove that it's the only purpose to use that phrase. Further, you can't prove that @Killer Clouds is doubling down on the phrase because his intent was to lean into the racist connotation, since a simpler explanation is that he just wants to spite you, which was my read on the conversation.

 

[brandon]

The problem is, showing that a phrase can have racist connotations doesn't prove that it's the only purpose to use that phrase. Further, you can't prove that @Killer Clouds is doubling down on the phrase because his intent was to lean into the racist connotation, since a simpler explanation is that he just wants to spite you, which was my read on the conversation.

Let's roll the tape.

So your friends are criminals. They should be sent back to where they came from.

Oh and “they should be sent back where they came from” is pretty racist.

There is nothing racist about wanting to send an illegal alien back to where they came from. Next time you call someone a racist you need to be looking in the mirror.

Suffice it to say that if it’s a phrase that’s pretty popular with the KKK, it might have some racial undertones.

I don't care what the KKK says or does. It has nothing to do with me. Illegal aliens need to go back to where they came from.

Spiteful? Sure. But also very much leaning in to the belief that "Illegal aliens need to go back to where they came from."

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

Let's roll the tape.







Spiteful? Sure. But also very much leaning in to the belief that "Illegal aliens need to go back to where they came from."

I'm not seeing it, you didn't prove that the only reason someone would ever use that phrase was because of race. Your link talks about the origins of the phrase and how it's use is often motivated by racial animus. However, that isn't exactly proof that anyone who uses the phrase is motivated by racial animus.

It's also clear @Killer Clouds didn't even read your link, so he's not even playing the same game as you, which I think would be crucial if you want to use his words as proof - he seemed to be explicitly denying the racial undertones of the phrase, so his repeated use of the phrase is not proof of racial animus.

And I agree with you that it's a loaded phrase, and I think a lot of the illegal immigration debate is driven by racial politics, but outright calling people a racist because they use a phrase you don't like is not going to be useful for a discussion board which I think the Main Community Board is supposed to be.

 

[Killer Clouds]

Let's roll the tape.








Spiteful? Sure. But also very much leaning in to the belief that "Illegal aliens need to go back to where they came from."

Illegal aliens do need to go back to where they came from. They are not US citizens and don't belong in this country. If they want to be in the US they should do it legally.

 

[brandon]

I'm not seeing it, you didn't prove that the only reason someone would ever use that phrase was because of race. Your link talks about the origins of the phrase and how it's use is often motivated by racial animus. However, that isn't exactly proof that anyone who uses the phrase is motivated by racial animus.

This is just not a realistic argument. As noted by the article I posted, there's no real context in the real world where that phrase can be used and not interpreted as racist. Using that phrase is treated as racism in pretty much every context.

Edit: Look, he's making the argument for me:

Illegal aliens do need to go back to where they came from. They are not US citizens and don't belong in this country. If they want to be in the US they should do it legally.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

The problem is, showing that a phrase can have racist connotations doesn't prove that it's the only purpose to use that phrase. Further, you can't prove that @Killer Clouds is doubling down on the phrase because his intent was to lean into the racist connotation, since a simpler explanation is that he just wants to spite you, which was my read on the conversation.

Racism for spiteful reasons is still racism.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

Illegal aliens do need to go back to where they came from. They are not US citizens and don't belong in this country. If they want to be in the US they should do it legally.

What if they make everyone richer by being here?

 

[brandon]

Racism for spiteful reasons is still racism.

In fact, it's almost a defining characteristic of racism.

 

[brandon]

What if they make everyone richer by being here?

The worth of humans shouldn't be determined by whether or not they are profitable.

Wow I sound like such a bleeding heart liberal. Back to the commie forum.

 

[Killer Clouds]

This is just not a realistic argument. As noted by the article I posted, there's no real context in the real world where that phrase can be used and not interpreted as racist. Using that phrase is treated as racism in pretty much every context.

Edit: Look, he's making the argument for me:

It is being used in the real world and it doesn't have any racist contention to say that ILLEGAL ALIENS NEED TO GO BACK WHERE THEY CAME FROM! Maybe you should try living in the real world instead of the make believe utopia of Ist.

 

[Killer Clouds]

What if they make everyone richer by being here?

What if we all hit the lottery and become millionaires?

 

[brandon]

It is being used in the real world and it doesn't have any racist contention to say that ILLEGAL ALIENS NEED TO GO BACK WHERE THEY CAME FROM! Maybe you should try living in the real world instead of the make believe utopia of Ist.

And this is why I said the stipulation informs the rest of the conversation. There's no point in further engagement with you because you're not listening and refuse to learn.

It's been stipulated that you're a racist. We don't have to discuss the phrase any more. We know where we stand and can move back to the actual topic of this thread, which is a $15 minimum wage.