All things Racist...USA edition (2 Viewers)

[Farb]

I was looking for a place to put this so we could discuss but didn't really find a place that worked so I created this thread so we can all place articles, experiences, videos and examples of racism in the USA.

This is one that happened this week. The lady even called and filed a complaint on the officer. This officer also chose to wear the body cam (apparently, LA doesn't require this yet). This exchange wasn't necessarily racist IMO until she started with the "mexican racist...you will never be white, like you want" garbage. That is when it turned racist IMO

All the murderer and other insults, I think are just a by product of CRT and ACAB rhetoric that is very common on the radical left and sadly is being brought to mainstream in this country.

Another point that I think is worth mentioning is she is a teacher and the sense of entitlement she feels is mind blowing.

https://news.yahoo.com/black-teacher-berates-latino-la-221235341.html

 

[MT15]

If the team and coaches didn’t throw tortillas or encourage that behavior, then I don’t see how stripping them of a championship is fair. If it was a couple of teens acting a fool, then punish those teens. If players threw tortillas, then the punishment is more reasonable.

isn’t there a pretty established custom of penalizing teams for their home crowd behavior if it’s bad enough? I think I remember that happening during a game before although not stripping a win away. I doubt it was only a couple of kids to cause this reaction.

 

[Farb]

I think something happened similar in soccer when the Mexican team fans(I think) made some homo slurs recently to a player and because of that, they had to play without fans in the stadium.

 

[Paul]

I think something happened similar in soccer when the Mexican team fans(I think) made some homo slurs recently to a player and because of that, they had to play without fans in the stadium.

Is a tortilla a slur for Mexicans?

 

[wardorican]

If the team and coaches didn’t throw tortillas or encourage that behavior, then I don’t see how stripping them of a championship is fair. If it was a couple of teens acting a fool, then punish those teens. If players threw tortillas, then the punishment is more reasonable.

I agree with this, or sanction the school in other ways. Like, they're not allowed to have any fans at games the following season. I'm not sure what all is in an athletic association's arsenal, though.

 

[wardorican]

Is a tortilla a slur for Mexicans?

That seems like a silly question. I argue with Farb a lot, like, A LOT (just not lately, because I've been busy). But, bringing up similar bad behavior of fans, regardless if it's a 1 for 1 comparison, is totally reasonable. Just like when I played HS basketball and some kids in the crowd were making all kinds of sounds, seemingly indicating they thought I was Middle Eastern, not Puerto Rican, at one game. I mean, they didn't do it to be nice. They were clearly trying to mock me in a racist manner, just the wrong race.


In college, I was in the pep band, and we had a rule about not insulting the player, but the play is fair game. Even then, keep it witty.

Any sort of school event where fans are being that obnoxious, where they have to insult race, gender, looks, etc. They should be removed.

 

[Paul]

That seems like a silly question. I argue with Farb a lot, like, A LOT (just not lately, because I've been busy). But, bringing up similar bad behavior of fans, regardless if it's a 1 for 1 comparison, is totally reasonable. Just like when I played HS basketball and some kids in the crowd were making all kinds of sounds, seemingly indicating they thought I was Middle Eastern, not Puerto Rican, at one game. I mean, they didn't do it to be nice. They were clearly trying to mock me in a racist manner, just the wrong race.


In college, I was in the pep band, and we had a rule about not insulting the player, but the play is fair game. Even then, keep it witty.

Any sort of school event where fans are being that obnoxious, where they have to insult race, gender, looks, etc. They should be removed.

You are correct, however, when I was young (a long time ago) students ribbed each other a lot. I had a Polish friend who took 100n polish jokes a minute in stride. Polish jokes were popular in that era. Today we walk on eggshells and this is a new era. As I said you are 100%. The new PC rules have a lot of positives, but there is a price to pay. Good friends, really good friends rib each other. Today that is a non no.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

You are correct, however, when I was young (a long time ago) students ribbed each other a lot. I had a Polish friend who took 100n polish jokes a minute in stride. Polish jokes were popular in that era. Today we walk on eggshells and this is a new era. As I said you are 100%. The new PC rules have a lot of positives, but there is a price to pay. Good friends, really good friends rib each other. Today that is a non no.

Nobody is stopping friends from ribbing each other. "The new PC rules", as you put it, is just a way of saying that if your language offends someone, don't be a jerk by continuing to say those offensive things.

 

[Paul]

Nobody is stopping friends from ribbing each other. "The new PC rules", as you put it, is just a way of saying that if your language offends someone, don't be a jerk by continuing to say those offensive things.

OK, let's try to discuss this in a vacuum from a philosophical point of view. Why is the word tortilla offensive? Is that because tortillas are associated with a Mexican cuisine. BTW, tortillas are also associated with Spanish cuisine, but the tortilla is made with eggs rather than flour. Would Spaniards be offended with the word tortilla too?

Whether someone is offended or not is a personal choice and a sense of feeling put down by others. In other words the so-called racism requires one group to feel superior and the other group to feel inferior. If both groups felt they were equal it would be difficult to practice racism.

Lastly, being offended is always relative. Perhaps the Spaniards are not offended by the word tortilla whereas the Mexicans are hurt. Perhaps the Mexicans that live in Mexico have no issues with the word and the ones that are offended are Mexican-Americans. Insulting words are only powerful when the person that hears the words reacts negatively

 

[cuddlemonkey]

OK, let's try to discuss this in a vacuum from a philosophical point of view. Why is the word tortilla offensive? Is that because tortillas are associated with a Mexican cuisine. BTW, tortillas are also associated with Spanish cuisine, but the tortilla is made with eggs rather than flour. Would Spaniards be offended with the word tortilla too?

Whether someone is offended or not is a personal choice and a sense of feeling put down by others. In other words the so-called racism requires one group to feel superior and the other group to feel inferior. If both groups felt they were equal it would be difficult to practice racism.

Lastly, being offended is always relative. Perhaps the Spaniards are not offended by the word tortilla whereas the Mexicans are hurt. Perhaps the Mexicans that live in Mexico have no issues with the word and the ones that are offended are Mexican-Americans. Insulting words are only powerful when the person that hears the words reacts negatively

I may be misunderstanding what you are saying, so could you please clarify? To me, it sounds as if you are putting the blame for being offended on the offended party and not the party doing or saying offensive things.

 

[Paul]

I may be misunderstanding what you are saying, so could you please clarify? To me, it sounds as if you are putting the blame for being offended on the offended party and not the party doing or saying offensive things.

Nope, it is not about blame. It is about self esteem and a solid knowledge of psychology. Have you ever read The Four Agreements by Miguel Ruiz?

Agreement 2: Don't Take Anything Personally​

The second agreement provides readers with a way to deal with hurtful treatment from others that they may experience in life. It advocates the importance of having a strong sense of self and not needing to rely on the opinions of others in order to be content and satisfied with their self-image. This agreement also allows readers to understand the notion that each individual has a unique worldview that alters their own perceptions, and that the actions and beliefs of a person is a projection of their own personal reality. Ruiz believes that anger, jealousy, envy, and even sadness can lessen or dissipate once an individual stops taking things personally.

Robert McWhorter is an American black intellectual and he has seen racism growing up. He states he occasionally sees people acting racist to him. He smiles and says to himself: "What a loser and move on". He refuses to have an apoplexy and become highly offended. As a result he is a very happy individual. If you place your worth on the words of others you are unhappy.

 

[brandon]

Why is the word tortilla offensive? Is that because tortillas are associated with a Mexican cuisine. BTW, tortillas are also associated with Spanish cuisine, but the tortilla is made with eggs rather than flour. Would Spaniards be offended with the word tortilla too?

Why is the n-word offensive? Is it because negro is associated with the color black?

Whether someone is offended or not is a personal choice and a sense of feeling put down by others. In other words the so-called racism requires one group to feel superior and the other group to feel inferior. If both groups felt they were equal it would be difficult to practice racism.

If one group feels superior, and then uses their position of power to make the other feel inferior, then the power imbalance is no longer made up.

Further, if one group believes both groups are equal, but the other group believes the first group is inferior, then guess what? One group will still be treating the other group as if they are inferior, even if one group believes they are equal.

Insulting words are only powerful when the person that hears the words reacts negatively

So the n-word is just a run-of-the-mill word that is so totally not powerful that we self-censor it by calling it the n-word?

 

[brandon]

Robert McWhorter is an American black intellectual and he has seen racism growing up. He states he occasionally sees people acting racist to him. He smiles and says to himself: "What a loser and move on". He refuses to have an apoplexy and become highly offended. As a result he is a very happy individual. If you place your worth on the words of others you are unhappy.

It’s one thing to not dwell on racism. It’s another to ignore it and allow it to fester.

 

[DaveXA]

Why is the n-word offensive? Is it because negro is associated with the color black?


If one group feels superior, and then uses their position of power to make the other feel inferior, then the power imbalance is no longer made up.

Further, if one group believes both groups are equal, but the other group believes the first group is inferior, then guess what? One group will still be treating the other group as if they are inferior, even if one group believes they are equal.


So the n-word is just a run-of-the-mill word that is so totally not powerful that we self-censor it by calling it the n-word?

Fwiw, I've never heard of tortilla being an offensive word prior to reading this thread. I think maybe a more apt comparison is watermelon or fried chicken, which is more of a stereotype than the n-word.

That said, context matters. "Pass me the tortillas." vs "You're a tortilla eating fool." The word on it's own is fine. But when used in a derogatory manner, it takes on a different meaning.

All that said...n-word =/= tortilla.

 

[Paul]

Why is the n-word offensive? Is it because negro is associated with the color black?

OK, guys. let's continue to discuss this at a philosophical level. The N word or any other word is offensive because a group is massively offended if another group says the word. The more offended a person is the greater the power of the word. However, at the end of the day it is just a word. And we know is just a word because among POC the N word is no big deal. The word only has effect if the recipient group is sensitized to the word in a negative manner.

If one group feels superior, and then uses their position of power to make the other feel inferior, then the power imbalance is no longer made up.

Again, from a philosophical point of view: If a person feels superior that does not imply intrinsic superiority. If a person feels inferior that does not imply intrinsic inferiority. So at the end of the day we are talking about feelings. Feelings are powerful and not easy to control, particularly by those with low self esteem. Lastly, if two groups are equal then words cause minimal harm because the potency of the words rest on one group feeling superior and the other group feeling inferior.

As for power: Yes, you have a point. When a powerful group hinders the progress of a less powerful group then we have racism that has nothing to do with self esteem. This is real racism and should be taken seriously. But, the tortilla incident is not about power.

Further, if one group believes both groups are equal, but the other group believes the first group is inferior, then guess what? One group will still be treating the other group as if they are inferior, even if one group believes they are equal.

Miguel Ruiz speaks to this. If you feel you are inferior then you will be massiveky offended. If you have great self esteem you are untouched and actyally feel pity for the other side.

 

[Paul]

It’s one thing to not dwell on racism. It’s another to ignore it and allow it to fester.

Any discrimination based on skin color that causes actual harm (feelings excluded) should be taken seriously. I agree.

 

[Paul]

Fwiw, I've never heard of tortilla being an offensive word prior to reading this thread. I think maybe a more apt comparison is watermelon or fried chicken, which is more of a stereotype than the n-word.

That said, context matters. "Pass me the tortillas." vs "You're a tortilla eating fool." The word on it's own is fine. But when used in a derogatory manner, it takes on a different meaning.

All that said...n-word =/= tortilla.

I agree. However, the recipient must be sensitized to the words. For example first generation Latin Americans are much less sensitive to words that are seen as racist than Latins that were born in the USA. There is a learned cultural component to the degree of offense taken.

 

[SystemShock]

Or maybe the system has led to the culture and we need to work to fix both, but you can't fix either without fixing the other?

Just doing a little non-ideologically driven spitballing here.

But does the system exist without the culture? I see it like love and marriage in the song, or that old anti-drug ad "I do cocaine so I can work more so I can buy more cocaine so I can work more and so on: a culture that foments the system which foments the culture which foments the system and so on.

 

[DaveXA]

But does the system exist without the culture? I see it like love and marriage in the song, or that old anti-drug ad "I do cocaine so I can work more so I can buy more cocaine so I can work more and so on: a culture that foments the system which foments the culture which foments the system and so on.

Chicken or egg?

But seriously, I don't think one exists without the other in terms of culture and system. They seem to go hand in hand to me.