All things Racist...USA edition (2 Viewers)

[Farb]

I was looking for a place to put this so we could discuss but didn't really find a place that worked so I created this thread so we can all place articles, experiences, videos and examples of racism in the USA.

This is one that happened this week. The lady even called and filed a complaint on the officer. This officer also chose to wear the body cam (apparently, LA doesn't require this yet). This exchange wasn't necessarily racist IMO until she started with the "mexican racist...you will never be white, like you want" garbage. That is when it turned racist IMO

All the murderer and other insults, I think are just a by product of CRT and ACAB rhetoric that is very common on the radical left and sadly is being brought to mainstream in this country.

Another point that I think is worth mentioning is she is a teacher and the sense of entitlement she feels is mind blowing.

https://news.yahoo.com/black-teacher-berates-latino-la-221235341.html

 

[LAhotsauce]

That is the 64 K question. Throughout world history some groups have conquered others. I would suggest you read Jared Diamond.

Technology, geography, read Jared Diamond

You are conflating issues like your buddy.

We are not talking about one country or one group of people overtaking another.

We are talking about within the same country where all of its citizens are subjected to the same laws. In that situation, why does one group have more power than the other? What could it be?

 

[Paul]

You are conflating issues like your buddy.

We are not talking about one country or one group of people overtaking another.

We are talking about within the same country where all of its citizens are subjected to the same laws. In that situation, why does one group have more power than the other? What could it be?

I hear you, but those with less power and in the minority came from another country.

However, slavery was the order of the day in antiquity. The strong were motivated to enslave the conquered ones. I am just making an observation. That does not mean I approve.

For three centuries between 900 and 1200 AD the Vikings raided, murdered, raped, and enslaved Anglosaxons . They invaded and took over the farms. They did it because they had more power.

 

[LAhotsauce]

I hear you, but those with less power and in the minority came from another country.

However, slavery was the order of the day in antiquity. The strong were motivated to enslave the conquered ones. I am just making an observation. That does not mean I approve.

For three centuries between 900 and 1200 AD the Vikings raided, murdered, raped, and enslaved Anglosaxons . They invaded and took over the farms. They did it because they had more power.

You're still conflating and dancing.

In the United States, in 2021 when slavery has been over for 156 years, why does one group have more power than another?

 

[bird]

I hear you, but those with less power and in the minority came from another country.

However, slavery was the order of the day in antiquity. The strong were motivated to enslave the conquered ones. I am just making an observation. That does not mean I approve.

For three centuries between 900 and 1200 AD the Vikings raided, murdered, raped, and enslaved Anglosaxons . They invaded and took over the farms. They did it because they had more power.

Irrelevant. “Presentism” is an excuse. There have been those who fought against slavery. There have been those who fought against pieces of Schlitz like Andrew Jackson. Time and therefore history is not divided into neat boxes. Overlap and flow occurs everywhere. And EVERYBODY in this country with the qualified exception of natives who came long before anyone else came from somewhere else.

 

[Paul]

Irrelevant. “Presentism” is an excuse. There have been those who fought against slavery. There have been those who fought against pieces of Schlitz like Andrew Jackson. Time and therefore history is not divided into neat boxes. Overlap and flow occurs everywhere. And EVERYBODY in this country with the qualified exception of natives who came long before anyone else came from somewhere else.

I agree with everything you said above. However, in antiquity most people looked the other way with regards to the atrocities of the day.

You want to emphasize America was invaded by Europeans and that they harmed the indigenous people. That is quite true. The North of Africa used to be Christian until it was invaded by the Muslims. The Japanese invaded and raped the Koreans for centuries. The Incas used to raid neighboring tribes and enslaved them. The children were sacrificed at the altar. Have you heard about the Mongol empire.

Man has been a barbaric beast throughout history. It would be racist to assume only Europeans are invaders.

 

[Paul]

Really? Violence. Political economy violence. Law enforcement violence. Invasion and movement of native persons. Need some more?

You are describing the effects of being more powerful than others. What is the origin of power?

You're still conflating and dancing.

In the United States, in 2021 when slavery has been over for 156 years, why does one group have more power than another?

Are you trying to prove once again that racism is real. The obvious answer is racism.

However, there is no such thing as equality. Humans exist in a gradient of talent and competence. The talent and competence is best used when there is more opportunity. Whites had better opportunities.

There is more to the story. Groups tend to achieve differently most of the time. Equal achievement between different groups is not the norm. European immigrants in America achieve differently according to country of origin. Latin immigrants also achieve differently according to country of origin. The same happens with people of African ancestry. Nigerians tend to achieve more than other African immigrants and often ahead of American blacks. Jamaicans also do great.

 

[LAhotsauce]

You are describing the effects of being more powerful than others. What is the origin of power?

Are you trying to prove once again that racism is real. The obvious answer is racism.

However, there is no such thing as equality. Humans exist in a gradient of talent and competence. The talent and competence is best used when there is more opportunity. Whites had better opportunities.

There is more to the story. Groups tend to achieve differently most of the time. Equal achievement between different groups is not the norm. European immigrants in America achieve differently according to country of origin. Latin immigrants also achieve differently according to country of origin. The same happens with people of African ancestry. Nigerians tend to achieve more than other African immigrants and often ahead of American blacks. Jamaicans also do great.

So this is what I'm getting at that you are dancing around. So achievement in America is tied to talent and competence then? Even though there is racism, the real truth is simple innate abilities? So Nigerian blacks are just more "competent" than American Blacks? German immigrants are more competent than Slavic immigrants? Cuban immigrants are more competent than Honduran immigrants?

In American society, how much of it is competence and how much of it is racism? If one group is simply more competent than the other, then why the need for racism in the first place? Like I don't need to add weight to a 5 year old's bench press just to prove that I'm stronger as an adult. I am simply going to outlift them without adding a handicap to the child. If I do that, then I'm probably not stronger or "more competent" than the child am I?

 

[MT15]

You have once again proven that racism exists.

Systemic racism, Paul, this would be an example of systemic racism.

 

[Paul]

Systemic racism, Paul, this would be an example of systemic racism.

I agree, there are some specific areas where racism is obvious and should be fixed.

However, when some says systemic racism and refers to the entirety of the USA as essentially racist then the term becomes an abstract and impossible to combat.

 

[LAhotsauce]

I agree, there are some specific areas where racism is obvious and should be fixed.

However, when some says systemic racism and refers to the entirety of the USA as essentially racist then the term becomes an abstract and impossible to combat.

Federal, state, and local governments worked with and allowed private neighborhood associations to implement racial covenants to keep "undesirables" out of their neighborhoods. And most specifically African Americans.

These neighborhoods were built with federal subsidies. The families that bought the homes also bought them with federal subsidies. Which means they used African American tax dollars. People whom were denied use of these subsidies purely based on race.

This occurred across the entire country. Which is reflected in the fact that in 2021, the African American homeownership rate is around 40% while the white one is up around 70%. That is a huge gap in stability and wealth and also why we still have these "black" ghettos all over the country. Nothing has ever been done to properly fix or address this.

Would that one example alone not be proof of systemic racism all over the entirety of the USA?

 

[LAhotsauce]

^^Also, while this was happening, european immigrants had simply become "white" so they could took advantage of these wealth building programs, while African and Caribbean immigrants were only a decimal of the population. They and Asian immigrants wouldn't come to the US in decent number until after the passage of the 1965 Immigration Act along with other acts passed all through the 80s.

Which is why it really gets on my nerves when people try to compare the plight of African Americans to that of POC immigrants who got to bypass all the smoke. They just got here. And many of them come to the US already educated and with assets or take advantage of asylum seeker programs just for them.

So it has nothing to do with one group simply being more competent than the other. US policy plays a major role in who has and who has not. Also here is an piece written by a Kenyan you might find interesting even for the few who were here pre-1960s.

African in America or African American? | Mukoma Wa Ngugi

Mukoma Wa Ngugi: The riddle of identity means I can live in the US for 20 years yet still be treated differently – by both black people and white

www.theguardian.com

 

[Paul]

Federal, state, and local governments worked with and allowed private neighborhood associations to implement racial covenants to keep "undesirables" out of their neighborhoods. And most specifically African Americans.

These neighborhoods were built with federal subsidies. The families that bought the homes also bought them with federal subsidies. Which means they used African American tax dollars. People whom were denied use of these subsidies purely based on race.

This occurred across the entire country. Which is reflected in the fact that in 2021, the African American homeownership rate is around 40% while the white one is up around 70%. That is a huge gap in stability and wealth and also why we still have these "black" ghettos all over the country. Nothing has ever been done to properly fix or address this.

Would that one example alone not be proof of systemic racism all over the entirety of the USA?

Systemic racism is well defined when specific details are provided. Saying systemic racism in a vacuum with no examples helps no one. If this practice continues to go on then one would think Biden, et al would be all over it. I hope you are talking about the past. If this continues today immediate action is needed.

 

[Paul]

So this is what I'm getting at that you are dancing around. So achievement in America is tied to talent and competence then? Even though there is racism, the real truth is simple innate abilities? So Nigerian blacks are just more "competent" than American Blacks? German immigrants are more competent than Slavic immigrants? Cuban immigrants are more competent than Honduran immigrants?

In American society, how much of it is competence and how much of it is racism? If one group is simply more competent than the other, then why the need for racism in the first place? Like I don't need to add weight to a 5 year old's bench press just to prove that I'm stronger as an adult. I am simply going to outlift them without adding a handicap to the child. If I do that, then I'm probably not stronger or "more competent" than the child am I?

How in the world is a white person racist to an American black and not to a Nigerian?

 

[MT15]

Totally missed the point, Paul. Like completely. Need to re-read the post.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Totally missed the point, Paul. Like completely. Need to re-read the post.

In other breaking news, the earth is round, the sun is hot, and the Falcons suck.

 

[LAhotsauce]

Systemic racism is well defined when specific details are provided. Saying systemic racism in a vacuum with no examples helps no one. If this practice continues to go on then one would think Biden, et al would be all over it. I hope you are talking about the past. If this continues today immediate action is needed.

Yes it continues today. But it's not always addressed. I believe St Bernard parish was fined for allowing this practice just a few years ago. No national outcry about it.

Also, it doesn't even matter if it's not allowed today or not. The damage of the past is still present. You have a large group of people who have not been able to accumulate wealth. You then ask these people to go participate in a very bloated and propped up housing market. This also extends to small business. Those things get started through the wealth of family and friends. Most African Americans do not have that option, so most African American small business is undercapitalized and often 1 person. Or have very few employees.

You seem to be naive on how these things work.

 

[LAhotsauce]

How in the world is a white person racist to an American black and not to a Nigerian?

Did you read that link? I believe the Kenyan who wrote it used the word "buffer."

 

[Paul]

Yes it continues today. But it's not always addressed. I believe St Bernard parish was fined for allowing this practice just a few years ago. No national outcry about it.

Also, it doesn't even matter if it's not allowed today or not. The damage of the past is still present. You have a large group of people who have not been able to accumulate wealth. You then ask these people to go participate in a very bloated and propped up housing market. This also extends to small business. Those things get started through the wealth of family and friends. Most African Americans do not have that option, so most African American small business is undercapitalized and often 1 person. Or have very few employees.

You seem to be naive on how these things work.

Not really, wealth is passed from generation to generation to generation. Free slaves had ZERO wealth. I have always been a proponent of a cash settlement for descendants of slaves that remain poor.