All things Racist...USA edition (4 Viewers)

[Farb]

I was looking for a place to put this so we could discuss but didn't really find a place that worked so I created this thread so we can all place articles, experiences, videos and examples of racism in the USA.

This is one that happened this week. The lady even called and filed a complaint on the officer. This officer also chose to wear the body cam (apparently, LA doesn't require this yet). This exchange wasn't necessarily racist IMO until she started with the "mexican racist...you will never be white, like you want" garbage. That is when it turned racist IMO

All the murderer and other insults, I think are just a by product of CRT and ACAB rhetoric that is very common on the radical left and sadly is being brought to mainstream in this country.

Another point that I think is worth mentioning is she is a teacher and the sense of entitlement she feels is mind blowing.

https://news.yahoo.com/black-teacher-berates-latino-la-221235341.html

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Macron has said he wants to avoid another French revolution. The revolution was so woke that anyone that disagreed ended in the guillotine. France always preaches unity regardless of skin color. IN France everybody is French. They do not want a balkanized nation.

Macron has said he wants to avoid another French revolution. The revolution was so woke that anyone that disagreed ended in the guillotine. France always predicted unity regardless of skin color. IN France everybody is French. They do not want a balkanized nation.

Now he's just plagiarizing himself.

 

[CoolBrees]

France is 85% white. It is a whole country of Utah. The other 15% is split up between mostly Northern Africans(10%) and Blacks (3.5) and Asians (1.5).

I mean, with numbers like that, there is no choice but assimilation. You are the only Black person in your town.

 

[RobF]

Black people are happier in France than America. For a long time Black Americans have found refuge and peace in Paris. Meanwhile you continue to support the woke culture Macron et al is trying to reject. i

There is racism in France as well as in all parts of the world. However, many black Americans prefer France.

Your assertions included that 'France rejects the ideology of WOKE', and that "France always predicted unity regardless of skin color. IN France everybody is French. They do not want a balkanized nation'.

Adding the further assertion that 'Black people are happier in France than America' does not substantiate any of those previous assertions.

You don't have an argument to respond to here. What you have is a series of assertions, which don't even support each other, and some of which can already be seen to be disingenuous if not outright wrong simply by reading the articles you linked.

This is not how any of this works.

It is quite obvious you are not Socrates. That is not an argument bro.

It was an observation and a recommendation, given in addition to the argument you essentially ignored in favour of making further unsubstantiated assertions.

And it's quite obvious that you're not Socrates, because, well, obviously, but also Socrates wouldn't be posting memes in lieu of comprehension, let alone failing to even comprehend and apply the content of those memes to himself.

Bro.

 

[Paul]

Your assertions included that 'France rejects the ideology of WOKE', and that "France always predicted unity regardless of skin color. IN France everybody is French. They do not want a balkanized nation'.

Adding the further assertion that 'Black people are happier in France than America' does not substantiate any of those previous assertions.

You don't have an argument to respond to here. What you have is a series of assertions, which don't even support each other, and some of which can already be seen to be disingenuous if not outright wrong simply by reading the articles you linked.

This is not how any of this works.


It was an observation and a recommendation, given in addition to the argument you essentially ignored in favour of making further unsubstantiated assertions.

And it's quite obvious that you're not Socrates, because, well, obviously, but also Socrates wouldn't be posting memes in lieu of comprehension, let alone failing to even comprehend and apply the content of those memes to himself.

Bro.

Listen to this interview of a French man of African ancestry and how he sees race relations in America.


Read more here:

Is Paris Still a Haven for Black Americans?

The City of Light once drew thousands of black expats across the Atlantic, but does it still have the same appeal?

www.smithsonianmag.com

Robbie: I understand you are trying to justify American Race ID politics, but I have to disagree. Your philosophy is divisive.

 

[RobF]

Listen to this interview of a French man of African ancestry and how he sees race relations in America.


Read more here:

Is Paris Still a Haven for Black Americans?

The City of Light once drew thousands of black expats across the Atlantic, but does it still have the same appeal?

www.smithsonianmag.com

Robbie: I understand you are trying to justify American Race ID politics, but I have to disagree. Your philosophy is divisive.

So: You just ignored the entire post you're responding to, linked to a video, offered no original thoughts of your own, linked to an article, with again no original thoughts of your own, and you finish by creating a straw man and disagreeing with it.

Again, that is not how this works.

A series of jumbled assertions are not an argument. And linking to various sites, most of which you apparently haven't read, doesn't magically transform them into an argument. For example, if we take the assertion that 'Black people are happier in France than America', you would first have to show that is the case, and you would then have to show why that is the case, and to even begin to support your other assertions that France does not have progressive movements, or, as you put it, 'France rejects the ideology of WOKE' and that France has a monolithic culture or, as you put it, 'IN France everybody is French' you would have to show that both of those are the case as well and establish a causal relationship.

Except you've linked to an article that describes the black community in Paris, talks about living in France as a black American, notes a tendency in the French to 'encounter American blacks—as opposed to their African and Caribbean counterparts—first and foremost as Americans and not as blacks' and, amongst other things, observes that the African American in Paris is put "in the odd new position of witnessing— and escaping—the systemic mistreatment of other lower castes in the city". So not only does the article you've linked to not make an argument for you, once again it actually undermines your own assertions.

What you're showing is that all you have to offer here is shallow assertions, links to articles you plainly haven't read, memes you don't understand, and the occasional YouTube video. Plus some passive-aggressive deliberately getting names wrong and the odd 'bro'.

I'm genuinely not sure what you're trying to accomplish at this point, but I'm pretty sure this isn't it.

 

[zztop]

I'm genuinely not sure what you're trying to accomplish at this point, but I'm pretty sure this isn't it.

I think just trying to get in his daily quota of: tribalism/ echo chamber/ straw man/ race ID politics/ Latin America/ I’m an outsider/ McWhorter posts for the day

 

[Paul]

I think just trying to get in his daily quota of: tribalism/ echo chamber/ straw man/ race ID politics/ Latin America/ I’m an outsider/ McWhorter posts for the day

This guy is funny, I will give him that.

 

[Paul]

So: You just ignored the entire post you're responding to, linked to a video, offered no original thoughts of your own, linked to an article, with again no original thoughts of your own, and you finish by creating a straw man and disagreeing with it.

My point is simple: The French deal with the concept of different ethnicities and cultures living together in a different manner than the Americans. Perhaps it does not work. Or perhaps it is better than race ID politics. I am willing to discuss.

Again, that is not how this works.

A series of jumbled assertions are not an argument. And linking to various sites, most of which you apparently haven't read, doesn't magically transform them into an argument. For example, if we take the assertion that 'Black people are happier in France than America', you would first have to show that is the case, and you would then have to show why that is the case, and to even begin to support your other assertions that France does not have progressive movements, or, as you put it, 'France rejects the ideology of WOKE' and that France has a monolithic culture or, as you put it, 'IN France everybody is French' you would have to show that both of those are the case as well and establish a causal relationship.

American blacks have been going to Paris to feel less stressed for a long time. This is not like arguing a math problem with just one answer. We could do a double blind study about where people of African ancestry are more comfortable (France or America). I assume such study does not exist and all I can show you is the numerous videos about the experiences of black Americans in Paris. Sadly, the left in France is adopting the American race ID politics and the French are worried this will make things worse. This is not my invention and you can find a ton of articles on the subject.

BTW, black Americans have become increasingly happier over the last three decades to reduce racism and better economic opportunities. It is possible that the black Americans that prefer Paris may do so for other reasons. A lot has been written on this subject.

Why African-Americans Are Happier, and Whites Aren't

Is it about economics or culture?

www.theatlantic.com

Except you've linked to an article that describes the black community in Paris, talks about living in France as a black American, notes a tendency in the French to 'encounter American blacks—as opposed to their African and Caribbean counterparts—first and foremost as Americans and not as blacks' and, amongst other things, observes that the African American in Paris is put "in the odd new position of witnessing— and escaping—the systemic mistreatment of other lower castes in the city". So not only does the article you've linked to not make an argument for you, once again it actually undermines your own assertions.

What you're showing is that all you have to offer here is shallow assertions, links to articles you plainly haven't read, memes you don't understand, and the occasional YouTube video. Plus some passive-aggressive deliberately getting names wrong and the odd 'bro'.

I'm genuinely not sure what you're trying to accomplish at this point, but I'm pretty sure this isn't it.

All you have done above is demonize the messenger. That is a debate fallacy Robbie.

 

[SystemShock]

Is there anyone in the world that is not racist.

Lots and lots... millions and millions, even billions.

Using the R word is not an argument.

.. and a broken clock... correct. Can you tell what I did there?

I realize this is a knee reaction for you, so no worries.

Out of curiosity, what do you think such "I know what you are but what am I?" statements get you? More participation trophies?

 

[RobF]

My point is simple: The French deal with the concept of different ethnicities and cultures living together in a different manner than the Americans. Perhaps it does not work. Or perhaps it os better than race ID politics. I am willing to discuss.

It's certainly simple, but, again, there's no point there, just some consistently vague assertions.

And if you'd read the article you'd linked to before, in addition to the reference to "the systemic mistreatment of other lower castes in the city" I already quoted, you'd have seen this:

I ask Ladd if he finds Paris to be a black man’s haven. “I feel France, and the rest of continental Europe even more so, is behind the curve in understanding diversity,” he answers sincerely. “They were very good at celebrating difference in small quantities—a handful of black American expats, a smattering of colonials— but as is widely seen now, France is having a difficult time understanding how to integrate other cultures within their own.”​

You clearly only have a shallow and incorrect understanding of France, rooted entirely in a myth of French universalism, and don't realise that similar progressive movements exist in France because, again, similar underlying issues exist in France. You're acting as if France's approach to public policy hasn't failed to address those issues, but that's like asserting that making something illegal must make it disappear; it's a plainly simplistic, and wrong, notion.

And these aren't new issues, for example, from May 27, 1990: https://www.nytimes.com/1990/05/27/...sm-in-france-brings-a-search-for-answers.html

Here's an idea, why not try Googling 'racism in France', and reading some of those results? Even if you don't get past the headlines of those either, you should still learn something.

American blacks have been going to Paris to feel less stressed for a long time. This is not like arguing a math problem with just one answer. We could do a double blind study about where people of African ancestry are more comfortable (France or America). I assume such study does not exist and all I can show you is the numerous videos about the experiences of black Americans in Paris. Sadly, the left in France is adopting the American race ID politics and the French are worried this will make things worse. This is not my invention and you can find a ton of articles on the subject.

BTW, black Americans have become increasingly happier over the last three decades to reduce racism and better economic opportunities. It is possible that the black Americans that prefer Paris may do so for other reasons. A lot has been written on this subject.

Why African-Americans Are Happier, and Whites Aren't

Is it about economics or culture?

www.theatlantic.com

If you hadn't just ignored the post you were replying to, you might have understood that merely showing that some black Americans who are in a position to emigrate to Paris have quite liked it there is not the remarkable insight you seem to think it is and does little to support any of your assertions.

Look, if you understood what 'knowing that you know nothing' means, you would take a statement like, 'black people are happier in France than America', and you would ask yourself, do I actually know that to be the case? If it is the case, is it universally so, or does it only apply to some people, or people in particular regions? Is it just a reflection of polling averages, or do there exist similarly unhappy groups in both nations despite a happier average in one? And once you understood the answers to those questions, you could then consider whether it supports the notion that similar underlying issues do not exist in both nations and how this relates to the presence of progressive politics, particularly as relates to race, in both.

Instead, you just throw it out there as a definitive statement, then throw in articles you think support the premise, but actually don't, because you didn't read them.

All you have done above is demonize the messenger. That is a debate fallacy Robbie.

Given that I've gone into the article you linked to in far more depth than you have, that is clearly false.

What you're doing is the equivalent of being given a signed picture of an elephant, covering up the elephant with your hand, and exclaiming, "Why, this is no elephant! It's just a signature!" It says nothing about what you're responding to, but tells us a lot about you. You might wish to stop doing it.

And that said, even if I had, for example, said something like "also you're a moron" in addition to that, that would still not be a debate fallacy, as I believe @cuddlemonkey has previously explained to you, and as even just reading wikipedia would have told you:

Non-Fallacious: A makes an argument, B responds with "(Genuine refutation of A's argument), also you're a moron". While potentially childish, B has genuinely offered a response to A's argument and has just bolted on an insult. This is not a fallacy, as an insult or character attack was not exchanged for an argument; rather one was provided alongside of an argument.​

Although you haven't really made an argument in the first place, and I haven't said you're a moron. I have described the nature and content of your posts, but if you feel like that's the equivalent of calling you a moron, that tells us more about your posts than it does anything else.

 

[Paul]

It's certainly simple, but, again, there's no point there, just some consistently vague assertions.

And if you'd read the article you'd linked to before, in addition to the reference to "the systemic mistreatment of other lower castes in the city" I already quoted, you'd have seen this:

I ask Ladd if he finds Paris to be a black man’s haven. “I feel France, and the rest of continental Europe even more so, is behind the curve in understanding diversity,” he answers sincerely. “They were very good at celebrating difference in small quantities—a handful of black American expats, a smattering of colonials— but as is widely seen now, France is having a difficult time understanding how to integrate other cultures within their own.”​

Sure, beyond racism there is also a caste system or classism. When England was totally white they had a class system and those born in a lower class had near zero opportunity to climb to the next social station. Most societies in the world (including American Indians) at one point had a caste system or slavery. I point this out not to justify racism but to better understand the human condition. The idea that a continent that was near 100% white should happily accept massive immigration by others is naive. Having said this there are people that crave diversity since the beginning of time. The issue of trying to put different ethnicities and cultures in the same physical space has solutions. Miscegenation probably works the best, but would not prevent classism or even a caste system. Robert Sapolski states that the best way to find unity among two different tribes is to form a third tribe with common values.

WHY WE ENGAGE IN TRIBALISM, NATIONALISM, AND SCAPEGOATING​

Robert Sapolsky reveals the biological basis for our most unfortunate traits—and insists change is possible.

Why We Engage in Tribalism, Nationalism, and Scapegoating

Robert Sapolsky reveals the biological basis for our most unfortunate traits—and insists change is possible.

psmag.com

Primates are hard-wired for us/them dichotomies. Our brains detect them in less than 100 milliseconds. Our views about things are driven by implicit (unconscious) processes. It's depressing as hell. A hormone like oxytocin makes you nicer to "us" and crappier to "them." What hormones are good at is magnifying things that are already there. That tells you that 'us and them' is a fundamental fault line in our brains.

That's depressing, but the key thing about us is that we all belong to multiple tribes. Even if we are predisposed into dividing the world into "us" and "them," it's incredibly easy to manipulate us as to who is an "us" and who is a "them" at any given moment.

True, but there's a lot of research suggesting our various identities are lining up more and more, with liberals and conservatives shopping at different stores, watching different movies and television shows, etc. Isn't that a dangerous trend?

I agree. The percentage of people who have friends with different political viewpoints is decreasing. The odds of you marrying someone with a different political orientation are also down. I think that reflects the ways in which social media, etc. have made this such a polarizing atmosphere.

Look at in this manner. If you play for the Yankees and I play for the Red Sox there is a natural rivalry. If we both get traded to play for the Philadelphia Phillies now we are on the same team and the rivalry goes away because now we are on the same team. This is how the French see the issue of mixing people from different colors and cultures.

You clearly only have a shallow and incorrect understanding of France, rooted entirely in a myth of French universalism,

Liberte Egalite Fraternite means liberty, equality, and fraternity.

Fraternity implies common goals.

and don't realise that similar progressive movements exist in France because, again, similar underlying issues exist in France. You're acting as if France's approach to public policy hasn't failed to address those issues, but that's like asserting that making something illegal must make it disappear; it's a plainly simplistic, and wrong, notion.

Race ID politics is tribalism.

And these aren't new issues, for example, from May 27, 1990: https://www.nytimes.com/1990/05/27/...sm-in-france-brings-a-search-for-answers.html

Here's an idea, why not try Googling 'racism in France', and reading some of those results? Even if you don't get past the headlines of those either, you should still learn something.

To say there is racism in France is not an argument. That would be like saying it rains in France or Norway.

 

[RobF]

Me: Maybe you should think about what you actually know and respond to what people have actually said, rather than just ignoring responses and making an endless series of incoherent unsubstantiated assertions and links to things you clearly haven't read?

Paul: *starts attempting to lecture the English guy about the English class system, links to more things, makes more incoherent unsubstantiated assertions, implies the national motto of France makes French universalism non-mythical as if that's what 'all men are created equal' does in the USA, and confuses failing to recognise an argument - that the existence of racism in France illustrates the same underlying problems exist and it's these that drive progressive politics - with the absence of an argument*

It's just a non-stop gish-gallop at this point. And no, I'm not going to respond to it; why would anyone, when all the responses are ignored? The problem is on the other end.

And for the record, Paul, that does still constitute an argument. The correct observation that someone is making a incoherent series of unsubstantiated assertions, ignoring responses, and is hence both offering no coherent argument to engage with, and refusing to engage with the arguments of others, is entirely non-fallacious.

 

[SFIDC3]

American blacks have been going to Paris to feel less stressed for a long time. This is not like arguing a math problem with just one answer. We could do a double blind study about where people of African ancestry are more comfortable (France or America). I assume such study does not exist and all I can show you is the numerous videos about the experiences of black Americans in Paris. Sadly, the left in France is adopting the American race ID politics and the French are worried this will make things worse. This is not my invention and you can find a ton of articles on the subject.

So anecdotal evidence is the only evidence you have in other words? Yet you know these things to be true in your heart of hearts? Naw, Rob has been way too patient with you IMO.....Read the words he is saying and you may learn something or perhaps just ignore everything, continue posting this type of drivel and very soon folks may stop engaging with you altogether.....

 

[SaintForLife]

Black woman accused of pretending to be white KKK member to terrorize neighbors

In an unexpected turn of events, this week authorities in Georgia revealed they believe a Black woman is behind the […] The post Black woman accused of pretending to be white KKK member to terrorize neighbors appeared first on TheGrio.

www.google.com

 

[Paul]

So anecdotal evidence is the only evidence you have in other words? Yet you know these things to be true in your heart of hearts? Naw, Rob has been way too patient with you IMO.....Read the words he is saying and you may learn something or perhaps just ignore everything, continue posting this type of drivel and very soon folks may stop engaging with you altogether.....

That American blacks have migrated to Paris looking for a refuge is not an anecdote.

Paris Noir: African Americans in the City of Light​

The history of black Americans who settled in Paris, France, from 1900 to the present.
Amazon product ASIN 1469909065

Bricktop's Paris: African American Women in Paris between the Two World Wars​

Tells the fascinating story of African American women who traveled to France to seek freedom of expression.
Amazon product ASIN 1438455003

 

[Paul]

Black woman accused of pretending to be white KKK member to terrorize neighbors

In an unexpected turn of events, this week authorities in Georgia revealed they believe a Black woman is behind the […] The post Black woman accused of pretending to be white KKK member to terrorize neighbors appeared first on TheGrio.

www.google.com

Many people think that it is bizarre that some people fabricate hate racial crimes. Honestly, I think it is done to maintain the fight against racism in the forefront. No different than when people see racism where there is none. However, ultimately this hurts the quest to further reduce racism. The other aspect of this is that perhaps some people see empowerment when they embrace the role of the victim of racism. This is obviously a psychological issue.

 

[Optimus Prime]

I was just in Virginia Beach a few weeks ago

I’m mad cops saying there’s nothing they can do
=============

……The neighbor’s alleged harassment of this family made national news this week, not only because it’s brazen and hate-filled but also because local police threw up their hands and said there’s nothing they can do about it.


“The city attorney and Virginia magistrates have separately determined that the actions reported thus far did not rise to a level that Virginia law defines as criminal behavior,” the Virginia Beach Police Department said last week. “This means the VBPD has had no authority to intervene and warrants were not supported.”

This is a police department that made 17,173 arrests in 2018, with 90 percent of them for nonserious and nonviolent charges, according to an analysis by the Vera Institute of Justice in New York. Black people were arrested at a rate 2.5 times the rate White people were, according to the study.

Police handcuffed and frog-marched a Black man at a shopping mall, in front of his family and mall crowds, because he matched the description of a man suspected of credit card fraud. (They were wrong and uncuffed him.)
In the past five years, they have filed 26 incident reports of “glue sniffing,” 20 for people accused of making “annoying phone calls” and four for “bookmaking,” according to the city’s crime reporting system.


They arrested a man for being naked on the beach. Years ago, they arrested a woman for wearing a thong bikini there…….

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/americas-ugly-front-lawn-racism-is-on-display/2021/10/07/614c2586-2778-11ec-8d53-67cfb452aa60_story.html

 

[Paul]

This is a police department that made 17,173 arrests in 2018, with 90 percent of them for nonserious and nonviolent charges, according to an analysis by the Vera Institute of Justice in New York. Black people were arrested at a rate 2.5 times the rate White people were, according to the study.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/americas-ugly-front-lawn-racism-is-on-display/2021/10/07/614c2586-2778-11ec-8d53-67cfb452aa60_story.html

Is the above proof of racism?
If yes. Why?