All things Racist...USA edition (2 Viewers)

[Farb]

I was looking for a place to put this so we could discuss but didn't really find a place that worked so I created this thread so we can all place articles, experiences, videos and examples of racism in the USA.

This is one that happened this week. The lady even called and filed a complaint on the officer. This officer also chose to wear the body cam (apparently, LA doesn't require this yet). This exchange wasn't necessarily racist IMO until she started with the "mexican racist...you will never be white, like you want" garbage. That is when it turned racist IMO

All the murderer and other insults, I think are just a by product of CRT and ACAB rhetoric that is very common on the radical left and sadly is being brought to mainstream in this country.

Another point that I think is worth mentioning is she is a teacher and the sense of entitlement she feels is mind blowing.

https://news.yahoo.com/black-teacher-berates-latino-la-221235341.html

 

[RobF]

He likes it when we argue over white nationalist talking points with him.

He is a social darwinist.

Sure, but I have to think the "linking to an article that explicitly counters his own argument" thing is more of a "didn't actually read/fully comprehend the article" thing than the "likes to argue discredited race pseudo-science beloved by the alt-right" thing.

 

[Paul]

Classic. Disagrees with someone saying racism isn't natural, says "there is a biological component that can be tamed", and then for evidence of this, links to an interview that states, "Well, in so far as I think the science shows, race is not a particularly strong innate category in our heads, and racism can be changed as an unconscious category surprisingly easily. We are not looking at biology here." And that also goes on to further support @samiam5211's premise that "Kids born into multicultural groups, do not define their group by race." as can be seen in the bit @Paul did quote.

It's quite an interesting interview really, worth reading. And I'd definitely recommend doing that before using it to say you disagree with someone.

I assume you read the paragraph about the amygdala and how it fires up in 75% in white people when confronted with POC. He then goes on to say the amygdala stops firing in the 25% that have gotten to know POC quite well.

Try to be more honest when making an argument. Forget the idea that the end justifies the means.

 

[RobF]

I assume you read the paragraph about the amygdala and how it fires up in 75% in white people when confronted with POC. He then goes on to say the amygdala stops firing in the 25% that have gotten to know POC quite well.

Yes, @Paul, that's what I was explicitly referring to when I said it supported "@samiam5211's premise that "Kids born into multicultural groups, do not define their group by race." Because it does.

The interview doesn't support your opposition to the notion that racism is unnatural, on the grounds that there's a biological component, because he explicitly states that "We're not talking biology here. It's cultural," and that "it is not inevitable".

As I just said.

Maybe try reading the posts you're replying to as well as the articles you mistakenly think support your wrong thinking.

Try to be more honest when making an argument. Forget the idea that the end justifies the means.

You're confusing your lack of comprehension with other people's qualities. Maybe try not to?

 

[Optimus Prime]

Interesting article
===============
…..On average, it’s true that people of color experience many inequities when compared with Whites. But these disparities are as diverse as people of color themselves, who differ appreciably in how they arrived to the United States, how they are treated by American society and what political priorities they hold.


To bring some order to this wild variation in experiences, Linda X. Zou and Sapna Cheryan, two leading social psychologists, have found that most people of color in the United States are fundamentally marginalized along two dimensions: How inferior or superior and how foreign or American they are considered to be.

As you can see in the figure above, White people are socially positioned as the most superior and American racial group. They remain the predominant racial group, despite their slow demographic decline.

In contrast, while Black and Latino individuals are both stereotyped as inferior with respect to White people, Black people are considered a more American minority than Latinos and Asians.

And although Asian Americans and Latinos are both stereotyped as foreigners, Asian individuals are considered more superior than both Latinos and Black people, as reflected in the “model minority” myth — the notion that Asians are smarter, economically better off and less impertinent than other people of color…..

……In recent research, I found that a greater sense of solidarity among people of color leads many African Americans, Asian Americans and Latinos to support policies that would be useful for one of those subgroups, even if it is not relevant to their own.

For instance, when thinking of themselves as “people of color,” they are more likely to support #BlackLivesMatter (a Black issue); a pathway to citizenship for unauthorized immigrants (a Latino issue); and more H1-B visas for high-skilled immigrants (an Asian American issue)……

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/08/31/us-is-more-racially-diverse-than-ever-will-people-color-unify-politically/

 

[Paul]

Interesting article
===============
…..On average, it’s true that people of color experience many inequities when compared with Whites. But these disparities are as diverse as people of color themselves, who differ appreciably in how they arrived to the United States, how they are treated by American society and what political priorities they hold.


To bring some order to this wild variation in experiences, Linda X. Zou and Sapna Cheryan, two leading social psychologists, have found that most people of color in the United States are fundamentally marginalized along two dimensions: How inferior or superior and how foreign or American they are considered to be.

As you can see in the figure above, White people are socially positioned as the most superior and American racial group. They remain the predominant racial group, despite their slow demographic decline.

In contrast, while Black and Latino individuals are both stereotyped as inferior with respect to White people, Black people are considered a more American minority than Latinos and Asians.

And although Asian Americans and Latinos are both stereotyped as foreigners, Asian individuals are considered more superior than both Latinos and Black people, as reflected in the “model minority” myth — the notion that Asians are smarter, economically better off and less impertinent than other people of color…..

……In recent research, I found that a greater sense of solidarity among people of color leads many African Americans, Asian Americans and Latinos to support policies that would be useful for one of those subgroups, even if it is not relevant to their own.

For instance, when thinking of themselves as “people of color,” they are more likely to support #BlackLivesMatter (a Black issue); a pathway to citizenship for unauthorized immigrants (a Latino issue); and more H1-B visas for high-skilled immigrants (an Asian American issue)……

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/08/31/us-is-more-racially-diverse-than-ever-will-people-color-unify-politically/

Everything you have stated is true and obvious from simple observation.

Asians are more academically and economically successful and hence have the greater degree of acceptance when they assimilate to American culture. Second generation Asians are fully assimilated and often intermarry.

Blacks continue to be the more discriminated group despite residing in America for hundreds of years. Despite being more authentically American than recent immigrants some have failed to assimilate and continue to maintain a distinct culture.

In my lifetime in America discrimination has markedly gone down and this point is always ignored. The media puts emphasis on the negative 24/7. I have suffered discrimination, but I also recognized I have experienced many positives.

Listen to this black British woman as how she sees racism in the United Kingdom.

 

[LAhotsauce]

Everything you have stated is true and obvious from simple observation.

Asians are more academically and economically successful and hence have the greater degree of acceptance when they assimilate to American culture. Second generation Asians are fully assimilated and often intermarry.

Blacks continue to be the more discriminated group despite residing in America for hundreds of years. Despite being more authentically American than recent immigrants some have failed to assimilate and continue to maintain a distinct culture.

In my lifetime in America discrimination has markedly gone down and this point is always ignored. The media puts emphasis on the negative 24/7. I have suffered discrimination, but I also recognized I have experienced many positives.

Listen to this black British woman as how she sees racism in the United Kingdom.

Your points are confusing. Assimilation is measured by intermarry? Intermarry with whom? If it's with who I think, I'm pretty sure African Americans intermarry far more than "asians" do in the US.

Then there is a Chinatown or Koreatown in almost every major American city. Even in New Orleans there is a lil Vietnam in New Orleans East. Those communities are the exact opposite of assimilation. They promote those people's distinct cultures on American soil and none of them have been burned to the ground like successful African American communities. Even imported criminal enterprises like "massage" parlors have been allowed to exist almost unchecked.

Yet we just went through this summer where "Black Wall St" finally became widely known. That African American community was economically successful and full of well educated people. That only seemed to draw the wrath of white supremacist even more. Not less. As we saw what became of it. That successful African American community wasn't the only one to meet that fate.

So what is this assimilation advantage for "asians" that has somehow escaped African Americans then? There have been ZERO African American communities that weren't 100% American. None that spoke a different language or practiced some "distinct" culture. Yet they all were the targets for white supremacists to be wiped out.

As to how "asians" became accepted, one chinese-american journalist thinks it was just reactionary to the civil rights movement and in opposition to African Americans. You can read this old piece here.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/11/29/the-real-reason-americans-stopped-spitting-on-asian-americans-and-started-praising-them/

If you think discrimination has gone markedly down, go ask African American farmers that have had to fight its own government (USDA) even today in 2021.

The "machine that eats up Black farmland"

After decades of discriminating against Black farmers and ignoring their complaints, the USDA is promising to do better. Again.

www.motherjones.com

 

[RobF]

Listen to this black British woman as how she sees racism in the United Kingdom.

For the record, this is the view of a right-wing government minister denying the existence of institutional and systemic racism in the UK. Because that's Kemi Badenoch, a very right-wing Conservative MP, who's been recorded expressing anti-LGBT views, denies the reality of racism, and yet was ludicrously the UK's 'Equalities Minister' up until recently. It is not representative of the views of black British women in general.

Black British people in general recognise the continued existence of racism in the UK (https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politic...ten-bame-britons-think-racism-exists-same-lev).

Put it this way, it's the equivalent of holding up the views of Candace Owens as not unrepresentative of the views of Black Americans.

A very weird thing for a so-called 'moderate' to do.

 

[Optimus Prime]

wasn't sure what thread to put this in

I wonder if he was even really doing this (seems like it's be easy enough to check) and if he wasn't why say he was?
===================
A FedEx delivery driver said in a video posted to TikTok that he wouldn't deliver to homes with signs showing support for President Joe Biden, Vice President Kamala Harris, or the Black Lives Matter (BLM) movement.

FedEx said that the driver was no longer working for the company, but wouldn't say whether he quit or was fired. The driver said he quit.

In a video posted September 16, Vincent Paterno said he would also ignore houses that "don't have a flag in front," seemingly a reference to the American flag. He would bring packages he didn't want to deliver "back to the station," he said.

In a comment on the video, Paterno said: "There's actually a lot of us doing this but I'm the only one posting." He didn't provide any evidence for this.

Some TikTok users said Paterno's actions could prevent people from getting access to medical deliveries. Paterno replied, "medical supplies have priority no matter who you voted for."

Paterno was wearing a FedEx polo shirt in the video.

A spokesperson for FedEx told Insider the company was "appalled by the behavior depicted in this video, which does not reflect the views of FedEx.".........

MSN

www.msn.com

 

[Farb]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crim...c-graffiti-found-at-emory-building/ar-AAOKuUi

I think we all can agree this was racist. I am not a fan of hate crimes (I think they are an emotional response) but with the string of 'fake' hate crimes and 'fake' racist attacks, a severe penalty should be created.

Edited to add: https://www.thecollegefix.com/black-man-arrested-for-n-word-graffiti-swastikas-at-emory-university/

I noticed the first story linked didn't relay the arrested guy was a black man. I then noticed most stories didn't cover that little detail so I added a story that did mention it.
That makes sense as the media played up the race card on this story until they didn't. Nothing to see here.

 

[Paul]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crim...c-graffiti-found-at-emory-building/ar-AAOKuUi

I think we all can agree this was racist. I am not a fan of hate crimes (I think they are an emotional response) but with the string of 'fake' hate crimes and 'fake' racist attacks, a severe penalty should be created.

Edited to add: https://www.thecollegefix.com/black-man-arrested-for-n-word-graffiti-swastikas-at-emory-university/

I noticed the first story linked didn't relay the arrested guy was a black man. I then noticed most stories didn't cover that little detail so I added a story that did mention it.
That makes sense as the media played up the race card on this story until they didn't. Nothing to see here.

Robert McWhorter has said a few things about people POC people that fabricate false racism:

 

[DaveXA]

Robert McWhorter has said a few things about people POC people that fabricate false racism:

I guess you can keep quoting or referencing McWhorter even though no one here cares much for what he has to say.

 

[Paul]

I guess you can keep quoting or referencing McWhorter even though no one here cares much for what he has to say.

I mentioned McWhorter to get you out out bed. I know quite well he is not your kind of intellectual.

 

[Paul]

Why does it matter if a word that was acceptable in the past is no longer acceptable? As societies evolve, certain words and behaviors become unacceptable. Change is not bad.

I fully agree. My point is that societal pressure shapes the culture and the language.

The reason that it may be seen as racist to ask these questions is that these are the exact fears of casual racists everywhere.

OK, that is a fair point. But, I am a centrist and I take from the left, the right, and the center. It is acceptable to review this in a philosophical manner in a vacuum. I understand racism quite well and it implies a sense of superiority of one group over another, however, that is not enough. The person that feels superior must live in a system that favors his point of view. In other words feeling superior with no power is not very effective racism and it becomes mundane bigotry. A NAZI type in an African nation where he is a minority of one has no power. Here in the forum the plane field is horizontal and there is no one with power (unless the moderator decides to end the conversation). Lets' explore for the sake of exploring. Let's have a discussion instead of a series on one liners.

Secondly, refusing to allow these questions brings us back to the idea of strict orthodoxy. As I said to Samian in the 14th century John Wycliffe was cancelled for suggesting the Bible could be translated to English. In 1811 Percy Shelly was banned from Oxford because he wrote an essay entitled "The Necessity of Atheism" A discussion about homosexuality was not tolerated a 100 years ago. I dare say that the first person that suggested freedom for slaves was booed out of the stage. The free flow of ideas is important.

This goes back to my last point (that you completely failed to address). If you understand that something can be construed as racist- whether you meant it that way or not- why would you not stop so consider why and attempt to empathize with those around you?

OK, you want me to follow the orthodoxy. There are some subjects that are not supposed to be on the table. To me this looks a bit like religious fervor, but that is another topic. I empathize and respect you because I would give you the same respect I give my father or my son. If I empathize with you because I feel you want my empathy I would feel awkward. I would want to empathize with you in a more genuine manner.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

I fully agree. My point is that societal pressure shapes the culture and the language.

OK, that is a fair point. But, I am a centrist and I take from the left, the right, and the center. It is acceptable to review this in a philosophical manner in a vacuum. I understand racism quite well and it implies a sense of superiority of one group over another, however, that is not enough. The person that feels superior must live in a system that favors his point of view. In other words feeling superior with no power is not very effective racism and it becomes mundane bigotry. A NAZI type in an African nation where he is a minority of one has no power. Here in the forum the plane field is horizontal and there is no one with power (unless the moderator decides to end the conversation). Lets' explore for the sake of exploring. Let's have a discussion instead of a series on one liners.

Secondly, refusing to allow these questions brings us back to the idea of strict orthodoxy. As I said to Samian in the 14th century John Wycliffe was cancelled for suggesting the Bible could be translated to English. In 1811 Percy Shelly was banned from Oxford because he wrote an essay entitled "The Necessity of Atheism" A discussion about homosexuality was not tolerated a 100 years ago. I dare say that the first person that suggested freedom for slaves was booed out of the stage. The free flow of ideas is important.



OK, you want me to follow the orthodoxy. There are some subjects that are not supposed to be on the table. To me this looks a bit like religious fervor, but that is another topic. I empathize and respect you because I would give you the same respect I give my father or my son. If I empathize with you because I feel you want my empathy I would feel awkward. I would want to empathize with you in a more genuine manner.

No, I just want you to stop being a shirtty, terrible person.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

I fully agree. My point is that societal pressure shapes the culture and the language.

OK, that is a fair point. But, I am a centrist and I take from the left, the right, and the center. It is acceptable to review this in a philosophical manner in a vacuum. I understand racism quite well and it implies a sense of superiority of one group over another, however, that is not enough. The person that feels superior must live in a system that favors his point of view. In other words feeling superior with no power is not very effective racism and it becomes mundane bigotry. A NAZI type in an African nation where he is a minority of one has no power. Here in the forum the plane field is horizontal and there is no one with power (unless the moderator decides to end the conversation). Lets' explore for the sake of exploring. Let's have a discussion instead of a series on one liners.

Secondly, refusing to allow these questions brings us back to the idea of strict orthodoxy. As I said to Samian in the 14th century John Wycliffe was cancelled for suggesting the Bible could be translated to English. In 1811 Percy Shelly was banned from Oxford because he wrote an essay entitled "The Necessity of Atheism" A discussion about homosexuality was not tolerated a 100 years ago. I dare say that the first person that suggested freedom for slaves was booed out of the stage. The free flow of ideas is important.



OK, you want me to follow the orthodoxy. There are some subjects that are not supposed to be on the table. To me this looks a bit like religious fervor, but that is another topic. I empathize and respect you because I would give you the same respect I give my father or my son. If I empathize with you because I feel you want my empathy I would feel awkward. I would want to empathize with you in a more genuine manner.

So here's the thing. You keep making laughable strawman arguments. Nobody wants to take certain topics out of the realm of discussion. In fact, it has been made quite clear that nobody is going to stop you from having discussions. What will happen, though, is that every time you put forth a racist argument, someone will call it out as racist. That's why I suggested that you have some empathy for others. Every argument you make comes from a place of overinflated self-importance.

 

[Paul]

So here's the thing. You keep making laughable strawman arguments. Nobody wants to take certain topics out of the realm of discussion. In fact, it has been made quite clear that nobody is going to stop you from having discussions. What will happen, though, is that every time you put forth a racist argument, someone will call it out as racist. That's why I suggested that you have some empathy for others. Every argument you make comes from a place of overinflated self-importance.

Have I said something that is not racist? Honestly, I am confused. I cannot guess what you want to hear.

I sense that you and Sam have defense walls and you will not bringing them down. I don't know why that is the case. Or maybe you want me to be orthodox and join the movement. In any event no worries!

 

[MT15]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crim...c-graffiti-found-at-emory-building/ar-AAOKuUi

I think we all can agree this was racist. I am not a fan of hate crimes (I think they are an emotional response) but with the string of 'fake' hate crimes and 'fake' racist attacks, a severe penalty should be created.

Edited to add: https://www.thecollegefix.com/black-man-arrested-for-n-word-graffiti-swastikas-at-emory-university/

I noticed the first story linked didn't relay the arrested guy was a black man. I then noticed most stories didn't cover that little detail so I added a story that did mention it.
That makes sense as the media played up the race card on this story until they didn't. Nothing to see here.

so, let me see if I understand what you’re saying:

Actual hate crimes committed by actual racists - you don’t like any extra penalties, just treat them the same as any other graffiti? I think you’ve been clear about that.

But if a POC creates a fake hate crime, there should be a severe penalty?

 

[brandon]

Have I said something that is not racist?

I’m gonna need a minute to review my notes.