All things Racist...USA edition (5 Viewers)

[Farb]

I was looking for a place to put this so we could discuss but didn't really find a place that worked so I created this thread so we can all place articles, experiences, videos and examples of racism in the USA.

This is one that happened this week. The lady even called and filed a complaint on the officer. This officer also chose to wear the body cam (apparently, LA doesn't require this yet). This exchange wasn't necessarily racist IMO until she started with the "mexican racist...you will never be white, like you want" garbage. That is when it turned racist IMO

All the murderer and other insults, I think are just a by product of CRT and ACAB rhetoric that is very common on the radical left and sadly is being brought to mainstream in this country.

Another point that I think is worth mentioning is she is a teacher and the sense of entitlement she feels is mind blowing.

https://news.yahoo.com/black-teacher-berates-latino-la-221235341.html

 

[brandon]

So you’re saying the onus is on the people who believe the stereotypes to make the change to not believing in those stereotypes.

It’s almost as if I read someone else saying almost the exact same thing earlier in this thread… I wonder who that could have been…

It was me, but he has me on ignore so thanks for helping out.

 

[DaveXA]

As I said before your view is very honorable, however, there is a bit of condescension. You are probably thinking, "holy cow I cannot win with these people". That is not the issue. I would like Anglo Saxon Americans to simply act normally and to not treat minorities (a condescending term) as if they were fragile people that need special handling. My motto is to treat everybody as an individual and not as a member of a given group. If we evaluate other individually and separate them from the group they come from we can easily eliminate racism. Why? Racism is judging people according to the group they belong to.

Having a two parent household will not automatically make everything equal between a white child and a black child. That standard is simply unrealistic. Children of Mormon, Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Italian, German, Hispanic, etc achieve differently. In fact children from the same family achieve differently. What we want is forward progress and not always try to catch the people up front. It is a futile form of keeping up with the Jones.

The patriarchy is real and we have to blame evolution for that. Nature saddled the females with the possibility of yearly pregnancies from adolescence until the menopause. In the old days huge families were the norm due to no contraception. Try getting ahead with a litter of eight kids, not an easy task. Contraception in the late 50s was a blessing for women. To make matters worse humans are a species with sexual dimorphism. The male is larger, stronger, and more aggressive.

As someone that is not an English speaker I saw the barriers and often wanted to have the privilege of being born in America. However, there were plenty of opportunities. I discovered it was possible to change the minds of those that have bigotry by showing them one could do the work.

Watch this video by a man that has been black since birth.

No, I'm not thinking, "holy cow I cannot win with these people". That never occurred to me. What I actually was thinking was more along the lines of "wow, FTP made some valid points, and in a way I hadn't really considered" and genuinely wanted to respond to his sentiment that he's not a n----, and that he and his ancestors aren't the ones who should fix that. And I agree with him. And you didn't really explain how/why I was being condescending.

I'm not sure exactly how minority group is a problem in the context I used it. There's nothing inherently wrong with minority groups. They're simply groups of people not in the majority. Not any different how there's a minorty/majority in Congress.

I treat the individual and their respective group with respect. I love diversity and enjoy leaning about and participating in cultures different from my own. I'm a believer in the idea that people's culture matters, and that I can learn from people with perspectives and experiences different from mine.

Your patriarchy comments...I got nothing.

As for the video, all due respect for the guy in the video, but he doesn't speak for all, or even most black people. That said, I'll let my friends here speak for themselves on the video.

 

[Optimus Prime]

I said it a few times and forum members thought it was excessive to mention that. Honestly, my origins are not important. What really matters is the content of what is written in the forum. To interpret the words based on nationality or ethnicity is biased.

It was a tongue in cheek response

you seem to bring it up every third post

 

[MT15]

Dave, for what it’s worth, I thought your post was a very sincere response to the extremely moving post from FTP. You and he are both absolutely great guys and I am happy that you’re both part of this forum.

 

[Paul]

It was a tongue in cheek response

you seem to bring it up every third post

Why do you have a need to point that out? What is the motivation? I am not offended, no worries.

Most of the time my origins are moot to the conversation, but sometimes it is important to state where I am coming from.

 

[Paul]

No, I'm not thinking, "holy cow I cannot win with these people". That never occurred to me. What I actually was thinking was more along the lines of "wow, FTP made some valid points, and in a way I hadn't really considered" and genuinely wanted to respond to his sentiment that he's not a n----, and that he and his ancestors aren't the ones who should fix that. And I agree with him. And you didn't really explain how/why I was being condescending.

I do not disagree. In fact, I am in favor of additional reparations for descendants of slaves. Affirmative action and other federal programs have failed to do the job. And to make matters worse these benefits are often given to people that are not descendants of slaves. Women and other minorities have taken advantage of these programs. AA is also used by middle to upper class blacks and African immigrants. Affirmative action is not going to help someone that could not finish high school. A new paradigm is needed.

I'm not sure exactly how minority group is a problem in the context I used it. There's nothing inherently wrong with minority groups. They're simply groups of people not in the majority. Not any different how there's a minorty/majority in Congress.

As someone that did not grow up in the USA those terms seem silly. Minorities can often be the majority in some city neighborhoods. When I grew up the term hispanic was reserved for Spaniards. The original Roman name of Spain was Hispania. And don't get me started on LatinX, that is another American fabrication.

I treat the individual and their respective group with respect. I love diversity and enjoy leaning about and participating in cultures different from my own. I'm a believer in the idea that people's culture matters, and that I can learn from people with perspectives and experiences different from mine.

It is no surprise that you are a person that is open to experience and agreeable. Your personality is rather well defined by psychology scholars. Look up the five big personality traits.

Your patriarchy comments...I got nothing.

There is plenty of matriarchy and patriarchy in nature. It is all about sexual dimorphism. Humans are no different than those other animals. However, we have been able to change that biological impulse.

As for the video, all due respect for the guy in the video, but he doesn't speak for all, or even most black people. That said, I'll let my friends here speak for themselves on the video.

I did not expect you to agree with McWhorter, but there are plenty of blacks that think like him. You just don't know about them.

 

[DaveXA]

I do not disagree. In fact, I am in favor of additional reparations for descendants of slaves. Affirmative action and other federal programs have failed to do the job. And to make matters worse these benefits are often given to people that are not descendants of slaves. Women and other minorities have taken advantage of these programs. AA is also used by middle to upper class blacks and African immigrants. Affirmative action is not going to help someone that could not finish high school. A new paradigm is needed.

As someone that did not grow up in the USA those terms seem silly. Minorities can often be the majority in some city neighborhoods. When I grew up the term hispanic was reserved for Spaniards. The original Roman name of Spain was Hispania. And don't get me started on LatinX, that is another American fabrication.

It is no surprise that you are a person that is open to experience and agreeable. Your personality is rather well defined by psychology scholars. Look up the five big personality traits.

There is plenty of matriarchy and patriarchy in nature. It is all about sexual dimorphism. Humans are no different than those other animals. However, we have been able to change that biological impulse.

I did not expect you to agree with McWhorter, but there are plenty of blacks that think like him. You just don't know about them.

But again, you haven't spelled out why my posts are condescending. I just don't get it.

Minority is simply people who are not in the majority population. Blacks are the majority population and whites a minority in Washington, DC. It's strictly a numbers descriptor, that is all it is. I'm not sure why you're making it an issue.

I'm not sure why you're bringing psychology into the discussion.

How do you know I don't know about people like McWhorter? You've made some incorrect assumptions several times in this thread.

 

[Paul]

But again, you haven't spelled out why my posts are condescending. I just don't get it.

I do not think you are intentionally trying to be condescending. Whether you sound condescending or not depends on who is reading you.

You said:

"I'm white, I apologize for my ancestors who created the n----. You and all of black Americans are not n----, and neither were your ancestors. I apologize that you carry a burden you didn't create. It should be my burden. And I'm willing to carry it. I don't know how, but I know I want to."

You repeated the words the poster wanted to hear. You met the expectations of that poster and I have to assume your words were well received by the poster. From my perspective it sounded patronizing and coming from a superior position. You will take care of them because you are white. You may even have white guilt and want to save them, that is OK, but the words sound condescending.


"The onus isn't on you to change, it's on us, white Americans."

Why do you even have to say "us white Americans"? It implies that without the help of white people the American blacks are doomed. This leaves a bad taste in my mouth but I can see how the words may be rewarding to someone looking for external affirmation. BTW, this is the first time in world history that one ethnic group places 100% of their hopes in the hands of another ethnic group. It does not feel right to me. There has to be a more middle of the road approach.

"It's well past time we acknowledge the harm done. I know I'm not the only white American who wants to make amends. There needs to be a whole hell of a lot more of us willing to acknowledge our role in causing pain for black Americans."

How would you make amends to black Americans? What do you propose?

"I don't think black Americans are criminals or lazy, certainly not any more than white Americans. I don't think we're all that different when afforded a level playing field."

There is only one human race and I do not see the point of reaffirming this. It is a bit of a Kumbayah moment, but it is somewhat far from reality.

I don't know how to fix the mistakes we've made, but I'm willing to try.

Easy, reparations are in order to eradicate poverty among descendants of slaves. The reparations are not to include other groups. They should only be applied to descendants of slaves.

Minority is simply people who are not in the majority population. Blacks are the majority population and whites a minority in Washington, DC. It's strictly a numbers descriptor, that is all it is. I'm not sure why you're making it an issue.

I make it an issue because the term minority also implies incapable of getting the job done. It implies that a white person needs to hold the hand of the minority.

I'm not sure why you're bringing psychology into the discussion.

It explains your personality profile. Feel free to google the big five personality traits and political inclination. I just wanted to give you some insight on why you are the way you are.

How do you know I don't know about people like McWhorter? You've made some incorrect assumptions several times in this thread.

I suggest you listen to the Glenn Loury and Robert McWhorter podcasts on You Tube. They are awesome!

 

[Saintamaniac]

I admire your intentions, but if I was black I would feel condescended. As someone that came from Latin America I would not want an Anglo Saxon to speak to me in that manner. You are perfectly ok to feel that way and your intentions are honorable, but there are words you should keep to yourself. Treat everybody with respect and dignity and always be kind to your fellow men. However, do not advertise how you think and why you do it. You unknowingly place yourself in a position of superiority. I know quite well is not intentional.

Sometimes it is better to be thought a fool than to respond to a post that had nothing to do with you and remove all doubt.

 

[RobF]

It seems you are trying to bait me into saying something unsavory so you can call me a racist. I am going to assume that was unintentional.

Just some observations, but this is a really weird thing to say in response to, "So to return to the two main stereotypes we discussed in this thread… do you think blacks are genetically or environmentally predisposed to violence more than whites? Do you think Hispanics are lazy?"

Because the obvious thing to think it's doing is attempting to prompt the answer, "no," in order to return to the point that it shouldn't be on the group subjected to an inaccurate and bigoted stereotype to correct it.

For someone to think it's baiting them into saying something unsavoury, they would have to think their answer is some form of, "yes," in which case, well, someone just baited themself.

Having a two parent household will not automatically make everything equal between a white child and a black child. That standard is simply unrealistic. Children of Mormon, Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Italian, German, Hispanic, etc achieve differently. In fact children from the same family achieve differently. What we want is forward progress and not always try to catch the people up front. It is a futile form of keeping up with the Jones.

Similarly, this is a really dubious statement. Think about who the people in front are. What does saying we shouldn't expect other groups to catch them up mean? It means we should be happy for that group to remain in front (or supreme, if you like) and for other groups to remain behind them. Which, when we're implicitly talking about things like access to education, freedom from discrimination, access to healthcare, life expectancy, etc., etc., is - to be polite - really flipping dubious.

He's not a white supremacist (how can he be, he's a Latin American), he just thinks that some races do better than others.

Technically, anyone can be a white supremacist, either directly - literally holding views of white supremacy (and potentially views of their own inferiority) - or indirectly (joining white supremacist groups, while denying that it's about white supremacy). See, e.g. https://www.thedailybeast.com/why-young-men-of-color-are-joining-white-supremacist-groups

 

[V Chip]

It seems you are trying to bait me into saying something unsavory so you can call me a racist. I am going to assume that was unintentional.

I'm trying to find out what you believe. They are simple questions with simple answers. It should be quite easy to say what you believe and back your belief up with reasons to support them.

 

[V Chip]

but if I was black I would feel condescended.
You unknowingly place yourself in a position of superiority.

I would want the words to be less condescending.
I thought he was condescending and that is my opinion.

however, there is a bit of condescension.

I do not think you are intentionally trying to be condescending.
but the words sound condescending.

You have an interesting habit of taking criticism directed at you then turning it around and starting to criticise others with the same terms, whether they are warranted or not. Your plentiful incorrect calling of other people's arguments "Straw man" (when they were nothing of the sort, actually) started after a couple people called your arguments straw man arguments (correctly). There are a couple other examples I can't recall right now, but now again your use of calling other people's arguments condescending after yours have been... this is a tactic of those with poor reasoning skills and those who wish to render the accusations worthless. Trump used this plenty of times as did many alt-right leaders in recent years.

Just an interesting observation, I thought anyway.

 

[V Chip]

I do not disagree. In fact, I am in favor of additional reparations for descendants of slaves. Affirmative action and other federal programs have failed to do the job. And to make matters worse these benefits are often given to people that are not descendants of slaves. Women and other minorities have taken advantage of these programs. AA is also used by middle to upper class blacks and African immigrants. Affirmative action is not going to help someone that could not finish high school. A new paradigm is needed.

Do you think systemic racism stopped with the Emancipation Proclamation or the fourteenth amendment?

If you don't, then the "descendants of slaves" specificity is unneeded and in fact is more harmful than reparations by race.

I did not expect you to agree with McWhorter, but there are plenty of blacks that think like him. You just don't know about them.

Again with the condescension.

 

[V Chip]

But again, you haven't spelled out why my posts are condescending. I just don't get it.

He's just throwing valid criticisms of his own arguments back at others in hopes of clouding the issues and lessening the criticism of his arguments.

How do you know I don't know about people like McWhorter? You've made some incorrect assumptions several times in this thread.

His condescension rearing its head again, and hoping to not be called on it because he called your (non-condescending) argument condescending.

 

[Paul]

You have an interesting habit of taking criticism directed at you then turning it around and starting to criticise others with the same terms, whether they are warranted or not. Your plentiful incorrect calling of other people's arguments "Straw man" (when they were nothing of the sort, actually) started after a couple people called your arguments straw man arguments (correctly). There are a couple other examples I can't recall right now, but now again your use of calling other people's arguments condescending after yours have been... this is a tactic of those with poor reasoning skills and those who wish to render the accusations worthless. Trump used this plenty of times as did many alt-right leaders in recent years.

Just an interesting observation, I thought anyway.

How about we discuss the issues?

 

[V Chip]

You repeated the words the poster wanted to hear. You met the expectations of that poster and I have to assume your words were well received by the poster. From my perspective it sounded patronizing and coming from a superior position. You will take care of them because you are white. You may even have white guilt and want to save them, that is OK, but the words sound condescending.

FTP did in no way want to hear the word "N*gger" Dear god do you even think before you post? Nevermind, strike that it's obvious you do not.

Why do you even have to say "us white Americans"? It implies that without the help of white people the American blacks are doomed.

No it doesn't. FFS.

But it *is* true that without us White Americans changing, racism will never go away. That's fact. The people in power and who have benefitted from systemic racism have to be the ones to willingly give up that white privilege and dismantle the systemic racism in order for it to go away. Black people have been pointing out these things for over 100 years and fighting for their civil rights and still today we're not in the promised land. Acting as if asking white people to see what it truly out there is condescending is laughable -- unless you are convinced there is no such thing as racism or systemic racism/prejudice in 2021.

There is only one human race and I do not see the point of reaffirming this. It is a bit of a Kumbayah moment, but it is somewhat far from reality.

So the idea that black people are not lazy or violent is far from reality? You won't answer my questions directly, but you do it all the time indirectly.

I make it an issue because the term minority also implies incapable of getting the job done. It implies that a white person needs to hold the hand of the minority.

No, it doesn't. It's a definition. Google is your friend, right?

mi·nor·i·ty
noun: minority; plural noun: minorities

1. the smaller number or part, especially a number that is less than half the whole number.
   "a minority party"
   
   
   

 

[V Chip]

How about we discuss the issues?

When you start doing so, I'll continue to discuss the issues. How about that?

 

[Paul]

Do you think systemic racism stopped with the Emancipation Proclamation or the fourteenth amendment?

If you don't, then the "descendants of slaves" specificity is unneeded and in fact is more harmful than reparations by race.

Again with the condescension.

Let's just discuss the issues.