All things Racist...USA edition (1 Viewer)

SystemShock

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Nope.

If we assume no European contact we need to look at the uncontacted indigenous groups of the Americas to see how they are doing today.
... and pay not attention whatsoever to the great civilizations that were negatively affected by European contact as to not sabotage our narrative.
 
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Farb

Farb

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... and pay not attention whatsoever to the great civilizations that were negatively affected by European contact as to not sabotage our narrative.
And those 'great' civilization are who exactly and what made them great?

I am by no means saying Western Civ is the best ever and no one is even close. I respect and enjoy many civilization and cultures. Everything would be so boring if we were all the same on this planet. Variety is a great thing, what the word you guys love....Diversity!
But it only seems fair that when everyone attacks Western Civ as the scourge the of the earth I want comparisons to the other civilizations so as it is a real conversation and not just a Maoist struggle session so posters can show how 'enlightened' they are by hating themselves, country, civilization, culture, race, religion...what else is there...oh, and sex (yall sure do hate a lot of benign stuff.)
 

B4YOU

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I don't know. I'm a little pessimistic about multiculturalism succeeding right now. What I believe we are seeing in this country right now is what happens when the ethnic majority group becomes a minority. They fight, violently, to prevent that from happening. In Canada, the hatred toward people from India as their population grows there is horrible. My cousins say some pretty horrible things about them. We've already given numerous examples of what is happening in France, but we are seeing it all through Europe. Right now the entire Western World is wrapped up in a culture war, though it's more pronounced here than anywhere else.

So can multiculturalism succeed? I think we will find out over the next 20 or so years. Unfortunately, if I were putting a bet on it in Vegas I'd put my money on no.

I don’t know if there is a historical example of a racial majority so quickly declining in a share of a nations population. White non-Hispanic has gone from 85% in 1960 to 60% in 2020. This trend is picking up steam with lower birth rates for whites. I think Trump was only testing the waters of white nationalism. I expect Rs to run someone worse shortly.

It may take 2 decades for white non-Hispanic to fall below 50%, but I’m not optimistic about a smooth transition.

 

Saint by the Bay

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And those 'great' civilization are who exactly and what made them great?

I am by no means saying Western Civ is the best ever and no one is even close. I respect and enjoy many civilization and cultures. Everything would be so boring if we were all the same on this planet. Variety is a great thing, what the word you guys love....Diversity!
But it only seems fair that when everyone attacks Western Civ as the scourge the of the earth I want comparisons to the other civilizations so as it is a real conversation and not just a Maoist struggle session so posters can show how 'enlightened' they are by hating themselves, country, civilization, culture, race, religion...what else is there...oh, and sex (yall sure do hate a lot of benign stuff.)

While this statement is peppered with your usual ridiculous bombast, I think people are silly to bemoan western culture. It has obviously been a net positive for the world. It's equally silly to pretend it hasn't made mistakes along the way and still is. Nothing is perfect, but it helps to be honest about both sides of the argument. Western culture has also been influenced and helped by the cultures it encountered along the way. The Euro-centric advocates tend to present the idea they made the world better and nobody else had anything to do with it. Then when people bring up valid points about the downsides of that they go into victim mode about how people are "hating themselves, country, civilization, culture, race, religion...what else is there...oh, and sex". That's just victimhood nonsense. Taking a critical look at history isn't hate, it's intellectual honesty.

No one is more critical of me than me, and I love myself. I'm downright arrogant and self-involved. I think I'm the cat's damn meow, but I can also admit when I'm wrong and look critically at my 48 years on this Earth. It's how I improve.

Looking at Western Culture shouldn't be any different.
 

Saintamaniac

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And those 'great' civilization are who exactly and what made them great?

I am by no means saying Western Civilization is the best ever and no one is even close. I respect and enjoy many civilization and cultures. Everything would be so boring if we were all the same on this planet. Variety is a great thing. But it only seems fair that when everyone attacks Western Civilization as the scourge of the earth, I want comparisons to the other civilizations so it is a real conversation.
Once you take out all of the BS, this was actually a decent post.
 

Bigdaddysaints

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Nope.

If we assume no European contact we need to look at the uncontacted indigenous groups of the Americas to see how they are doing today. This has nothing to do with black Americans.

This is just a point of conversation guys. It is rather interesting to speculate, that is all.
Ok, so are you saying the Native Americans are better off today than they were before European contact?
Or the the uncontacted tribe (pictured above) would be better if someone came in there and killed most of them, but hey, the'll have internet now?
There is also a difference in Contact and conquest, which is what Europeans did.

Edit: It shouldn't be taboo to tell true history on stuff like this. You can't pretend that it happened for the good of the indigenous people. "Well, if we wouldn't have done it, the USA wouldn't exist". True, but we did kill a lot people unjustly and did some very bad things in the process. It doesn't make you a bad American to acknowledge it like some people would have you believe.
 
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SystemShock

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And those 'great' civilization are who exactly and what made them great?

Are you serious? You mean to tell me you have no knowledge of any of the civilizations that flourished in this continent prior to Europeans landing in Puerto de Palos?
I am by no means saying Western Civ is the best ever and no one is even close. I respect and enjoy many civilization and cultures. Everything would be so boring if we were all the same on this planet. Variety is a great thing, what the word you guys love....Diversity!
But it only seems fair that when everyone attacks Western Civ as the scourge the of the earth I want comparisons to the other civilizations so as it is a real conversation and not just a Maoist struggle session so posters can show how 'enlightened' they are by hating themselves, country, civilization, culture, race, religion...what else is there...oh, and sex (yall sure do hate a lot of benign stuff.)
No one is attacking Western civilization as the scourge of the Earth. And yes, it'd be nice to have a real conversation, but unnecessary, stupid jabs kind of derail that.
 

Sandman

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I'm not one to back up a @Farb point, but to be fair, Asians have been at it for a hot minute, too. Khmer Rouge, Japan in WWII, Rohingya in Myanmar, Uyghurs in China, the Armenian genocide...yea, they tend to keep it in-house, but there's been a fair amount of genocide in Asia, as well.
I am reading a book on the Rape of Nanking. Truly horrific acts with not much accountability. Apparently, Communist China and the Republic of China were too busy trying to get recognition as the “true” China to demand their pound of flesh.
 

Paul

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Are you serious? You mean to tell me you have no knowledge of any of the civilizations that flourished in this continent prior to Europeans landing in Puerto de Palos?

No one is attacking Western civilization as the scourge of the Earth. And yes, it'd be nice to have a real conversation, but unnecessary, stupid jabs kind of derail that.
The idea that the Europeans are the most violent group in the world is BS and racist All other civilizations were equally barbaric, if not more.
Give some credit to the West as it has finally become the most open tolerant woke system in the world.
 

Paul

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Ok, so are you saying the Native Americans are better off today than they were before European contact?
Or the the uncontacted tribe (pictured above) would be better if someone came in there and killed most of them, but hey, the'll have internet now?
There is also a difference in Contact and conquest, which is what Europeans did.

Edit: It shouldn't be taboo to tell true history on stuff like this. You can't pretend that it happened for the good of the indigenous people. "Well, if we wouldn't have done it, the USA wouldn't exist". True, but we did kill a lot people unjustly and did some very bad things in the process. It doesn't make you a bad American to acknowledge it like some people would have you believe.
I am just making an observation. The history of the world is one group conquering another group. Humans are equally evil or kind regardless of ethnicity.

Judging what people did more than five centuries ago with today's lens is futile. You are a presentist and that is a road to nowhere.

pres·ent·ism
/ˈprezenˌtizəm/

noun

  1. uncritical adherence to present-day attitudes, especially the tendency to interpret past events in terms of modern values and concepts.
 

samiam5211

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I am just making an observation. The history of the world is one group conquering another group. Humans are equally evil or kind regardless of ethnicity.

Judging what people did more than five centuries ago with today's lens is futile. You are a presentist and that is a road to nowhere.

pres·ent·ism
/ˈprezenˌtizəm/

noun

  1. uncritical adherence to present-day attitudes, especially the tendency to interpret past events in terms of modern values and concepts.

We aren’t trying to defame the character of an individual who was a product of the world they were born into.

We are judging the world they were born into. It is a relevant topic of discussion, and your obsession with not passing judgement on the practices of conquering cultures just seems like a deflection.

It was wrong to intentionally infect natives with diseases or take their land, just like it was wrong when they took land from others who had settled it. It doesn’t matter what the context is.
 

brandon

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The idea that the Europeans are the most violent group in the world is BS and racist All other civilizations were equally barbaric, if not more.
Give some credit to the West as it has finally become the most open tolerant woke system in the world.
Are you done pretending to be a moderate?
 

UncleTrvlingJim

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The idea that the Europeans are the most violent group in the world is BS and racist All other civilizations were equally barbaric, if not more.
Give some credit to the West as it has finally become the most open tolerant woke system in the world.

This is true, but it's been progressives dragging the West in that direction with the status quo resisting all along the way. It isn't something that just happens, people had to fight to make that tolerance happen. And we're not perfect, and we did terrible things along the way and if we don't learn from them (which means talking about it) we can repeat it.

I guess it's understandable but it is still tiring to have to constantly assuage conservatives feelings on this, they are just as fragile as every other group and get super defensive at any sort of criticism, just like everyone else. Just wish they would recognize that their feelings get hurt and that therefore feelings are important.
 

Paul

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We aren’t trying to defame the character of an individual who was a product of the world they were born into.

We are judging the world they were born into. It is a relevant topic of discussion, and your obsession with not passing judgement on the practices of conquering cultures just seems like a deflection.

It was wrong to intentionally infect natives with diseases or take their land, just like it was wrong when they took land from others who had settled it. It doesn’t matter what the context is.
The culture of grievance regarding the distant past makes no sense. However, we might as well start at the onset.

1. The first genocide: The Neanderthal man was driven to extinction by the Homo Sapiens man 40,000 years ago. I have some Neanderthal DNA and I am incredibly angry at the Homo Sapiens that conquered the world . What they did was wrong.

2. How about slavery: No one had more slaves than the Muslims. They castrated the male slaves and took European women as sex slaves in the harems. The Europeans were choir boys compared to these guys. I will never forgive that. They invaded Europe and conquered the Eastern Roman Empire. The changed the name of Constantinople to Instanbul. The North of Africa used to be Christian and today is Muslim.

3. The Inca Empire: They raided villages, enslaved people, and sacrificed children at the altar.

4. The Mongol Empire is the bloodiest empire in history.

5. The Japanese conquered Korea and treated Koreans worse than Hitler treated the Jews.

6. How about African tribal warfare? Mauritania still has slavery today in 2021.

7. The Vikings invaded and raided the British Isles for three centuries 900-1200 AD. They set the world record in rapes.

8. How about the Moors? They invaded the Iberian Peninsula and stayed there for centuries. Nice guys ahh!!

It seems to be that barbaric people come in all colors.
 

Paul

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This is true, but it's been progressives dragging the West in that direction with the status quo resisting all along the way. It isn't something that just happens, people had to fight to make that tolerance happen. And we're not perfect, and we did terrible things along the way and if we don't learn from them (which means talking about it) we can repeat it.

I guess it's understandable but it is still tiring to have to constantly assuage conservatives feelings on this, they are just as fragile as every other group and get super defensive at any sort of criticism, just like everyone else. Just wish they would recognize that their feelings get hurt and that therefore feelings are important.
It is not about feelings getting hurt. It is mostly about being bored by watching people recycle silly virtue signaling rhetoric. Do they realize that other empires did the same or were even worse. For crying out loud, no one had more African slaves than the Muslims. And on top of that they castrated the men. I am not saying two wrongs make a right, but groups conquering others is the history of the world
 

Paul

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Yes, so?

Why are you do defensive about it?
I am not defensive. I am simply stating that other empires were also ruthless and sometimes more vicious. The barbaric condition applies to ALL humans and not just Europeans. I am not saying two wrings make a right. All I am saying is that for the most parts humans are barbaric beasts.
 

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