All things Racist...USA edition (6 Viewers)

[Farb]

I was looking for a place to put this so we could discuss but didn't really find a place that worked so I created this thread so we can all place articles, experiences, videos and examples of racism in the USA.

This is one that happened this week. The lady even called and filed a complaint on the officer. This officer also chose to wear the body cam (apparently, LA doesn't require this yet). This exchange wasn't necessarily racist IMO until she started with the "mexican racist...you will never be white, like you want" garbage. That is when it turned racist IMO

All the murderer and other insults, I think are just a by product of CRT and ACAB rhetoric that is very common on the radical left and sadly is being brought to mainstream in this country.

Another point that I think is worth mentioning is she is a teacher and the sense of entitlement she feels is mind blowing.

https://news.yahoo.com/black-teacher-berates-latino-la-221235341.html

 

[Paul]

I agree, but just suggesting removing a term isn't gonna make a white supremacists less supremacist.
Force it or make not ok for them to be like that, call it cancel culture or what ever you would like, but the more shameful they look in public eye, the better.

Shaming or societal pressure works. As with everything there is a point where no benefit is seen. For example banning the term master bedroom is seen as silly. Or as Justin Trudeau said: Changing the term MANKIND to PEOPLEKIND .

Lastly cultural changes that happen naturally are long lasting. Forced cultural changes are not lasting. America has done incredibly well when one looks at the not so distant past.

 

[Paul]

Romans did it. Chinese did it. Japanese did it. Egyptians did it. It predates America by about 4,000 years (Egypt). That's without me thinking very hard about it. If I did I could probably push that date back even further.

Once again, it's just part of the human condition. We're tribal by nature so we categorize things to define tribes. That's how we roll.

I forgot to add. Your post suggests that multiculturalism is doomed to fail.

 

[coldseat]

IN Puerto Rico everybody is Puerto Rican. That works great!

I agree! Avoiding the tribal nature is not easy. In Puerto Rico most of the population is made up of African, European and Indigenous DNA so everybody being Puerto Rican makes a lot of sense. The culture is Latin American in nature despite more than 100 years of colonization by the USA.

You are ridiculously over simplifying the cultural differences in Puerto Rico and totally ignoring the effect of the huge elephant in the room when it comes to Puerto Rico, the effect of long term colonialism.

First, there are big socioeconomic and cultural differences between Puertoricans with African or Indigenous ancestry and those with European ancestry on the island. While there may be more of a shared cultural identity (due mostly to the small size of the island) and more mixing of groups (more of a recent occurrence) there are still very marked differences between the two groups.

Moreover, the effects of long term colonialism, in which everybody on the Island has had to bear the burden of unjust oppression and limitations on self governance and self determination, has had the effect of bonding people together over racial lines. You don't have that here in the US, because after the American Revolution (and even before) there was no shared unjust oppression.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

I forgot to add. Your post suggests that multiculturalism is doomed to fail.

I don't know. I'm a little pessimistic about multiculturalism succeeding right now. What I believe we are seeing in this country right now is what happens when the ethnic majority group becomes a minority. They fight, violently, to prevent that from happening. In Canada, the hatred toward people from India as their population grows there is horrible. My cousins say some pretty horrible things about them. We've already given numerous examples of what is happening in France, but we are seeing it all through Europe. Right now the entire Western World is wrapped up in a culture war, though it's more pronounced here than anywhere else.

So can multiculturalism succeed? I think we will find out over the next 20 or so years. Unfortunately, if I were putting a bet on it in Vegas I'd put my money on no.

 

[Paul]

You are ridiculously over simplifying the cultural differences in Puerto Rico and totally ignoring the effect of the huge elephant in the room when it comes to Puerto Rico, the effect of long term colonialism.

First, there are big socioeconomic and cultural differences between Puertoricans with African or Indigenous ancestry and those with European ancestry on the island. While there may be more of a shared cultural identity (due mostly to the small size of the island) and more mixing of groups (more of a recent occurrence) there are still very marked differences between the two groups.

Moreover, the effects of long term colonialism, in which everybody on the Island has had to bear the burden of unjust oppression and limitations on self governance and self determination, has had the effect of bonding people together over racial lines. You don't have that here in the US, because after the American Revolution (and even before) there was no shared unjust oppression.

Like in all Latin nations the descendants of the Spaniards are better off and better educated; welcome to the real world. However, the high degree of mixing and a single culture promotes unity. In the USA many Americans hate the concept of America and self segregate. In Latin nations nationalism is a vehicle to unity; not so much in the USA.

Are you talking about American or Spanish colonialism? The places in Latin America where there was no Spanish contact are few and include the Amazon indigenous groups and many groups in places like Bolivia where they don't even speak Spanish.

Puerto Ricans are ambivalent. They want self determination but never vote for independence.

 

[Saintamaniac]

Yes, that is an American invention.

Puerto Ricans are Americans.

 

[Paul]

Puerto Ricans are Americans.

Yes they are, but they have a Latin American culture. They were invaded by the USA in 1898. In those days the USA wanted to be like England----they wanted an Empire.

 

[Paul]

I don't know. I'm a little pessimistic about multiculturalism succeeding right now. What I believe we are seeing in this country right now is what happens when the ethnic majority group becomes a minority. They fight, violently, to prevent that from happening. In Canada, the hatred toward people from India as their population grows there is horrible. My cousins say some pretty horrible things about them. We've already given numerous examples of what is happening in France, but we are seeing it all through Europe. Right now the entire Western World is wrapped up in a culture war, though it's more pronounced here than anywhere else.

So can multiculturalism succeed? I think we will find out over the next 20 or so years. Unfortunately, if I were putting a bet on it in Vegas I'd put my money on no.

I will reply later. I got some work to do.

 

[coldseat]

Like in all Latin nations the descendants of the Spaniards are better off and better educated; welcome to the real world. However, the high degree of mixing and a single culture promotes unity. In the USA many Americans hate the concept of America and self segregate. In Latin nations nationalism is a vehicle to unity; not so much in the USA.

People do not hate the concept of America. They hate the American Identity as forced by Republicans and Trump.

Are you talking about American or Spanish colonialism? The places in Latin America where there was no Spanish contact are few and include the Amazon indigenous groups and many groups in places like Bolivia where they don't even speak Spanish.

Puerto Ricans are ambivalent. They want self determination but never vote for independence.

I was talking about both. That fact that all Puerto Rico has been since the Spaniards landed on it is a colony.

And Puertoricans are not ambivalent. There is definitely a split on the island as to what would be best (statehood or independence), but that does not equate to ambivalence.

 

[wardorican]

Your point has racist undertones. Why should the viewpoint of a person be related to skin color, gender, or religion. All you are doing here is judging people according to group membership which is discrimination.


I agree, but why should the lenses be different?

We belong to the human race and there is only one human race. The accomplishments of Tiger Woods, Isaac Newton, and Einstein represent who I am even though I am not English, Jewish, or black/Asian. You seem to prefer tribalism.


No disagreement.

They say what they say because they recognize the tribalism. Why can we unite and stop talking about differences? Why can we be just ONE and seek the unity that is needed to achieve liberté, egalité, and fraternité,


What do you mean by equality? There is no such thing as equality among humans. All of us exist in hierarchy of talent and competence.

You're viewing this backwards.

We want to get as many viewpoints as possible in almost any situation. So, when you stop and realize that certain voices are often ignored or not included, someone who is interested in a wider view point would make it a point to seek out those voices not given the platform. It's similar to a teacher seeking out the quiet kids, or the trouble maker here and there. It's why a good manager asks everyone on the team, and makes sure they get viewpoints out of those that are a bit shy... perhaps in private vs the whole group, if that helps. You don't want to miss something by having a lack of data or perspective.

So, again, the reason for focusing on 'minority' opinions/voices, is because they are currently underrepresented. Either due to the power dynamics, due to just not thinking their opinion will be well received, or because they're not at the table to even have a voice.

So, as you say, we are all the human race, so why are some completely ignored?

Also, aren't there all kinds of lenses we see the world from? Native born, immigrant, young, old, musician, artist, banker, engineer, scientist, kind, jerk, thoughtful, narrowminded, mechanical, green thumb.....

And can you tell me in your own words what liberté, egalité, and fraternité mean?

 

[Paul]

I don't know. I'm a little pessimistic about multiculturalism succeeding right now. What I believe we are seeing in this country right now is what happens when the ethnic majority group becomes a minority. They fight, violently, to prevent that from happening. In Canada, the hatred toward people from India as their population grows there is horrible. My cousins say some pretty horrible things about them. We've already given numerous examples of what is happening in France, but we are seeing it all through Europe. Right now the entire Western World is wrapped up in a culture war, though it's more pronounced here than anywhere else.

So can multiculturalism succeed? I think we will find out over the next 20 or so years. Unfortunately, if I were putting a bet on it in Vegas I'd put my money on no.

Two very different concepts:

1. Multiculturalism is a lot of hard work. This is easy for the people that have the personality trait of "open to experience". This trait is often inherited and also modified by the environment. Open to experience people crave the new and hate the old. They like exotic foods and are willing to travel to foreign nations that are not exactly touristy places. They are artsy and a bit carefree. Some are willing to try tattoos and even die the hair green. They are not afraid of strange and hence are not xenophobic.

On the other side you have people born with the personality trait of conscientiousness. They tend to prefer the old ways (whatever is familiar) , are tidy, dress conservatively, and mostly eat meat and potatoes (some may not even eat seafood). They are not that artsy, but are organized, hard workers, and cross of the Ts. They are easily shocked by foreign cultures and hence appear xenophobic.

A well balanced person benefits from a combination of "open to experience and conscientiousness".

2. The well known evolution primatologist and neurophysiologist Robert Sapolsky who is a liberal talks about then concept of tribalism and how to unite different groups. He has studied this behavior in other primates and has seen how chimps from one group will murder chimps from another group. He understands the ingrained tribalism among humans.

Sapolski states that two distinct groups can unite if a third group is form that has a goal or value that is common to both groups. Best example is the unity one often sees in baseball teams driving for a championship. The team has Black, Asian, and Hispanic players. As long as they are playing for the common goal of winning the championship they are ONE and get along like brothers.

If America does not have a common unifying theme to unite all--------- the nation will end in chaos.

 

[SystemShock]

Yes, but two (or three) wrongs do not make a right.

What does that have to do with anything we are talking about?

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

Shaming or societal pressure works. As with everything there is a point where no benefit is seen. For example banning the term master bedroom is seen as silly. Or as Justin Trudeau said: Changing the term MANKIND to PEOPLEKIND .

Lastly cultural changes that happen naturally are long lasting. Forced cultural changes are not lasting. America has done incredibly well when one looks at the not so distant past.

What about changing the N word to Black or African American. Do you think that helped? Are should they still be called N's?

 

[SystemShock]

I agree! Avoiding the tribal nature is not easy. In Puerto Rico most of the population is made up of African, European and Indigenous DNA so everybody being Puerto Rican makes a lot of sense. The culture is Latin American in nature despite more than 100 years of colonization by the USA.

You really need to stop claiming Latin America is some monolithic culture; it is not.
You also need to stop assuming things about places you know nothing about.
Will be cool if you stopped with the non-sequitur preplies too.

If I have to type Latin America one more time...

 

[Paul]

What about changing the N word to Black or African American. Do you think that helped? Are should they still be called N's?

The N word was always derogatory and I am assuming a play on the Spanish word negro. Ideally society would evolve and leave the word behind because it was outdated or had no significance of any kind. However, as long as some people have an apoplexy the word will have value in the hands of racists that want to inflict pain. Vulgarity goes away when society decides it has no purpose.

Regarding insults I always follow the advice of

The Four Agreements, by Don Miguel Ruiz​

For some people the agreements come naturally, however, others may benefit from reading this short booklet. Anyone that uses the N word is mostly insulting him or herself. Once you see that point of view you are free, totally liberated.

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

If America does not have a common unifying theme to unite all--------- the nation will end in chaos.

Who do you think tries to divide us more, POC or the racists/white supremacists?

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

You really need to stop claiming Latin America is some monolithic culture; it is not.
You also need to stop assuming things about places you know nothing about.
Will be cool if you stopped with the non-sequitur preplies too.

If I have to type Latin America one more time...

Either he is lying about his "Latin American" heritage or he's embarrassed by it.

 

[Paul]

Who do you think tries to divide us more, POC or the racists/white supremacists?

As an outsider I say both. The more tribal each side gets the worse it gets. A person firmly entrenched in his or her echo chamber will only see their side and demonize the other group 100%. That is what I am seeing.

Lastly, do you realize you give them a lot of power when you call them supremacists?