All things Racist...USA edition (2 Viewers)

brandon

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Think about it. What would Puerto Rico be with no European interference?

Here is a photo of indigenous people from the Americas that never had European contact.
braz-unc-2010-01-crop_screen.jpg


Brazil is home to more uncontacted peoples than anywhere on the planet. It is now thought that over 100 such groups live in the Amazon. Most tribes live entirely off the forests, savannas and rivers by a mixture of hunting, gathering and fishing. They grow plants for food and medicine and use them to build houses and make everyday objects.

The idea of uncontacted Taino indians is just a wet dream.



They are split about the issue, but they are not ambivalent. Got it!
I would like to point out that @Farb and @Paul have very similar interpretations of culture vis-a-vis whiteness.

Very similar.
 

Saint by the Bay

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I would like to point out that @Farb and @Paul have very similar interpretations of culture vis-a-vis whiteness.

Very similar.

It's also a poor understanding of how civilizations develop. Generally speaking, isolated cultures develop slower because they are restricted to the knowledge and ideas they discover. Contact with anyone, not just white people, improves your knowledge because you share discoveries. Why were the Egyptians so advanced? Their location allowed them to acquire knowledge from cultures down the Nile and eastern Africa.

Meeting Europeans has nothing to do with it. Cultures all over the world were incredibly advanced before they met Europeans, they just didn't have gunpowder yet so they lost. This White Saviour complex ignores advanced cultures all over the world in favor of attributing cultural and scientific advances to Europeans. That's not how it works.
 

coldseat

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If they hate the American identity then the nation is doomed. You can be mad and complain, but hating the essence of your nation is not a good plan. When in Rome do as the Romans, that tends to work better. Tribalism does not work.

You didn't understand what I said. I said that people don't hate an American Identity, they hate THE American Identity that is forced by Republicans. They hate the gun toting, 'Murica, pull yourselves up by your bootstraps, don't tread on me, whitewashing, Christian nation, American exceptionalism, attachments to symbols instead of ideals, neo-con (until recently) identity that is pushed and forced by the Republicans and has been injected with steroids ever since Trump.


Think about it. What would Puerto Rico be with no European interference?

Here is a photo of indigenous people from the Americas that never had European contact.
braz-unc-2010-01-crop_screen.jpg


Brazil is home to more uncontacted peoples than anywhere on the planet. It is now thought that over 100 such groups live in the Amazon. Most tribes live entirely off the forests, savannas and rivers by a mixture of hunting, gathering and fishing. They grow plants for food and medicine and use them to build houses and make everyday objects.

The idea of uncontacted Taino indians is just a wet dream.



They are split about the issue, but they are not ambivalent. Got it!

I imagine the Taino Indians would be living a simple, happy life on the island had they never had contact with Europeans. They would at least be alive. But that is neiter here nor there, nor does it have anything to do with this discussion, really.
 
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Saint by the Bay

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...and let's not forget that the thing that actually turned Europeans into the Great White of cultures, gunpowder, they actually learned from the Chinese via the Silk Road. It wasn't a scientific advance of their own. Without that Western Culture wouldn't have been nearly as effective at taming those wheeless savages.
 

wardorican

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Think about it. What would Puerto Rico be with no European interference?

Here is a photo of indigenous people from the Americas that never had European contact.
braz-unc-2010-01-crop_screen.jpg


Brazil is home to more uncontacted peoples than anywhere on the planet. It is now thought that over 100 such groups live in the Amazon. Most tribes live entirely off the forests, savannas and rivers by a mixture of hunting, gathering and fishing. They grow plants for food and medicine and use them to build houses and make everyday objects.

The idea of uncontacted Taino indians is just a wet dream.



They are split about the issue, but they are not ambivalent. Got it!
Seems like you got away from the original point about colonialism.

In either case, it wasn't so much about European interference or contact with PR. Maybe more to do with the forced labor / mining, revolt that lead to a massive military campaign against them... which is a nice way of saying genocide. And a lot of disease.
 
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Farb

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...and let's not forget that the thing that actually turned Europeans into the Great White of cultures, gunpowder, they actually learned from the Chinese via the Silk Road. It wasn't a scientific advance of their own. Without that Western Culture wouldn't have been nearly as effective at taming those wheeless savages.
Gunpowder was developed by the Chin but the Europeans perfected how to use it to kill people and we did it very well. So, yes, it did help in conquering the less technological advanced as been the case is all of human history.
 

Saint by the Bay

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Gunpowder was developed by the Chin but the Europeans perfected how to use it to kill people and we did it very well. So, yes, it did help in conquering the less technological advanced as been the case is all of human history.

I never denied that. People of European descent have absolutely proven to be the best at murdering people in human history. Frankly, no other civilizations come close. Kudos.
 

Saintamaniac

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...and let's not forget that the thing that actually turned Europeans into the Great White of cultures, gunpowder, they actually learned from the Chinese via the Silk Road. It wasn't a scientific advance of their own. Without that Western Culture wouldn't have been nearly as effective at taming those wheeless savages.
The anti-CRT crowd might get themselves worked up over teaching the actual truth about Europeans and gunpowder and the Silk Road and the impact it had on European societal development.

Here you had Europeans with their primitive swords, spears and trebuchets while Asians had Katanas, rockets and cannons.
 

SystemShock

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Think about it. What would Puerto Rico be with no European interference?

Here is a photo of indigenous people from the Americas that never had European contact.
braz-unc-2010-01-crop_screen.jpg

I don't know why such displays still shock me... I should be used to it by now... but anyway, while photography had not been invented yet, let me show you some other pictures, depicting people and places before European contact. I am limited to 5 pictures per post, so:

This is the Kukulcan pyramid in Chichen-Itzá. Did you know... of course not... beyond the known equinox event, it is a very accurate calendar, displaying days, weeks, months, and years.
chichen.jpg


This is the pyramid of the sun in Tenochtitlán. The pyramids here are perfectly aligned to the Orion constellation.
tenoch.jpg


Here's a depiction of Texcoco lake, where the Aztecs built Teotihuacán atop man-made islands called chinampas, and built highways across the water.
chinampas.jpg


Moving South, here is the Incan agricultural laboratory in Moray.
moray-inca1.jpg


... and lastly, a picture of muxes, the 3rd sex recognized by the Zapotecs..
muxes.jpg
 

Bigdaddysaints

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Paul is getting close to the theory of Black people are better off now because of slavery bringing them to America.. Saying PR is better now because Europeans killed and enslaved their ancestors is pretty ridiculous. I know that not what you said, but that is the direction you seem to be going.
 
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Farb

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I never denied that. People of European descent have absolutely proven to be the best at murdering people in human history. Frankly, no other civilizations come close. Kudos.
I want to check the receipts on that statement. Is there a stat somewhere because I am thinking the Asians might have us beat? I mean ole boy Timujin might have made a pretty good go at it.
 

Saint by the Bay

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I want to check the receipts on that statement. Is there a stat somewhere because I am thinking the Asians might have us beat? I mean ole boy Timujin might have made a pretty good go at it.

I think the fact that various Asians limited it in general to their geographic area (the Mongols being the exception) puts them squarely in the B League. If you're not exporting genocide and subjection across the seas are you even really trying?

Also, it's important to note Timujin was one leader. Their subjection stretched to Eastern Europe but lasted what, 30 years? Europeans have been at it for 100's through numerous leaders and systems of government. That's true commitment.
 

brandon

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I think the fact that various Asians limited it in general to their geographic area (the Mongols being the exception) puts them squarely in the B League. If you're not exporting genocide and subjection across the seas are you even really trying?

Also, it's important to note Timujin was one leader. Their subjection stretched to Eastern Europe but lasted what, 30 years? Europeans have been at it for 100's through numerous leaders and systems of government. That's true commitment.
I'm not one to back up a @Farb point, but to be fair, Asians have been at it for a hot minute, too. Khmer Rouge, Japan in WWII, Rohingya in Myanmar, Uyghurs in China, the Armenian genocide...yea, they tend to keep it in-house, but there's been a fair amount of genocide in Asia, as well.
 

Saint by the Bay

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I'm not one to back up a @Farb point, but to be fair, Asians have been at it for a hot minute, too. Khmer Rouge, Japan in WWII, Rohingya in Myanmar, Uyghurs in China, the Armenian genocide...yea, they tend to keep it in-house, but there's been a fair amount of genocide in Asia, as well.

Fair. I give extra points for exporting it to 5 other continents, but in raw body count I guess there may be some competition.
 

Paul

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I don't know why such displays still shock me... I should be used to it by now... but anyway, while photography had not been invented yet, let me show you some other pictures, depicting people and places before European contact. I am limited to 5 pictures per post, so:

This is the Kukulcan pyramid in Chichen-Itzá. Did you know... of course not... beyond the known equinox event, it is a very accurate calendar, displaying days, weeks, months, and years.
View attachment 4518

This is the pyramid of the sun in Tenochtitlán. The pyramids here are perfectly aligned to the Orion constellation.
View attachment 4520

Here's a depiction of Texcoco lake, where the Aztecs built Teotihuacán atop man-made islands called chinampas, and built highways across the water.
View attachment 4521

Moving South, here is the Incan agricultural laboratory in Moray.
View attachment 4522

... and lastly, a picture of muxes, the 3rd sex recognized by the Zapotecs..
View attachment 4523
Yeah, I agree, other indigenous groups were much advanced than the Taínos. The women are gorgeous.
 

Paul

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Paul is getting close to the theory of Black people are better off now because of slavery bringing them to America.. Saying PR is better now because Europeans killed and enslaved their ancestors is pretty ridiculous. I know that not what you said, but that is the direction you seem to be going.
Nope.

If we assume no European contact we need to look at the uncontacted indigenous groups of the Americas to see how they are doing today. This has nothing to do with black Americans.

This is just a point of conversation guys. It is rather interesting to speculate, that is all.
 

Paul

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Seems like you got away from the original point about colonialism.

In either case, it wasn't so much about European interference or contact with PR. Maybe more to do with the forced labor / mining, revolt that lead to a massive military campaign against them... which is a nice way of saying genocide. And a lot of disease.
You are a presentist.
Presentism is never a good idea.
 

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