All things Racist...USA edition (1 Viewer)

Paul

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 22, 2021
Messages
741
Reaction score
259
Location
Potomac, Maryland 20854
Offline
Isn't considering all older civilizations 'barbaric' essentially 'presentist'?
No, barbaric behavior is part of the human condition and thankfully has gone down over time as humans become more civilized.

We are primates. Just watch chimps murder other chimps from a different group. Humans can be equally ruthless.
 
Last edited:

Saintamaniac

Rise Sons of the Gold & Purple
Joined
Sep 28, 2019
Messages
884
Reaction score
1,704
Age
51
Location
Laplace, LA
Offline
So, I don't know how widespread it is or what, but, when I took American history at Lafayette High school in the late 80s, I was taught about slavery and learned that many of the founders owned slaves. Learned about the 3/5ths compromise and I memorized Lincoln's Gettysburg Address. We also talked about individuals who led the movement to abolish slavery. At least in my experience, I never really saw any denying it in history class. Maybe I had a good teacher, idk. He never shied away from difficult questions and answered candidly. I don't remember if Juneteenth was covered though. I do recall we talked about it taking a long time before all of the former slaves learned they had been freed because of the lack of quick communication methods back then.

Of course, I never really talked about it with anyone outside of school. But that was the case for just about any school subject. Most kids I associated with back then deliberately avoided talking anything related to school, lol.

I certainly think it all should be taught, the good, the bad and the ugly. I know some people want to avoid looking under the provervial hood of the car and see that mess of an engine. Ignoring the engine will eventually cause the car to break down, and I agree, ignoring our history will lead to a breakdown in our society.

The thing is, I don't know what other schools teach in their American history classes, but if they're anything like what I experienced, everyone should have been exposed to that part of our history. Now some students will deny or ignore what is being taught, but I guess there will always be those who prefer to romanticize or rewrite US history, but, I don't know that there's anything that can be done about it other than to speak against it.
We are around the same age and your high school education sounds a lot like mine. However, we also learned about the "race cases" (i.e. Dred Scott, Plessy vs Ferguson, Brown vs Board of Education, etc). We discussed the sharecrop system and the impact of having land taken from them affected freed slaves for generations to come. The last era that I remember discussing was the civil rights movement and how it impacted us directly (in the mid to late 80's. The reason for all of this being taught was to understand the importance of why we were being pushed to be better.

From the time I entered my high school until the time I graduated, there was a mantra that was taught....that I teach my own kids to this day. It's not acceptable to be as good as the people you are competing with. They have a built in advantage. At all times and all things, you must be better.

Having learned about the impact of slavery, Jim Crow and Civil Rights on present day society, I understand why it was done that way.
 
Last edited:

DaveXA

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 6, 2018
Messages
3,076
Reaction score
2,245
Location
Vienna, VA (via Lafayette)
Offline
We are around the same age and your high school education sounds a lot like mine. However, we also learned about the "race cases" (i.e. Dred Scott, Plessy vs Ferguson, Brown vs Board of Education, etc). We discussed the sharecrop system and the impact of having land taken from them affected freed slaves for generations to come. The last error that I remember discussing was the civil rights movement and how it impacted us directly (in the mid to late 80's. The reason for all of this being taught was to understand the importance of why we were being pushed to to be better.

From the time I entered my high school until the time I graduated, there was a mantra that was taught....that I teach my own kids to this day. It's not acceptable to be as good as the people you are competing with. They have a built in advantage. At all times and all things, you must be better.

Having learned about the impact of slavery, Jim Crow and Civil Rights on present day society, I understand why it was done that way.

Nice post. We learned about those cases as well along with the other examples you pointed out. I think part of the problem is people either forget or didn't pay attention in class back then (and of course, continues to this day). Some things stick, others not so much. And a lot of things I knew, but it was years later when I started to put some of the pieces of the puzzle together. A lot of people never get that far for whatever reason.
 

Paul

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 22, 2021
Messages
741
Reaction score
259
Location
Potomac, Maryland 20854
Offline
Nice post. We learned about those cases as well along with the other examples you pointed out. I think part of the problem is people either forget or didn't pay attention in class back then (and of course, continues to this day). Some things stick, others not so much. And a lot of things I knew, but it was years later when I started to put some of the pieces of the puzzle together. A lot of people never get that far for whatever reason.
I do not know anyone that opposes the teaching of American history as it was. My kids went to Catholic schools and they had a ton of history lessons with regards to slavery and everything that followed. Most young educated people of this era understand the damage done by the past. Sadly these days many refuse to acknowledge the progress made.

The issue with the teaching history is that in some schools kids are kids divided into oppressors and victims and that has nothing to do with the teaching of history.

These guys have a healthy discussion about CRT:
 

DaveXA

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 6, 2018
Messages
3,076
Reaction score
2,245
Location
Vienna, VA (via Lafayette)
Offline
I do not know anyone that opposes the teaching of American history as it was. My kids went to Catholic schools and they had a ton of history lessons with regards to slavery and everything that followed. Most young educated people of this era understand the damage done by the past. Sadly these days many refuse to acknowledge the progress made.

The issue with the teaching history is that in some schools kids are kids divided into oppressors and victims and that has nothing to do with the teaching of history.

These guys have a healthy discussion about CRT:

I'm not really seeing the denial of progress though. Most will quickly acknowledge that progress has been made.

That said, that doesn't mean the work is done. Progress should continue being made, and addressing legitimate grievances should be encouraged. I do think we're beyond being able to make some minority groups whole, but I also think it's not a hopeless goal to try and right the many wrongs that happened in the more distant past.

The bigger and more immediate problem is the still ongoing racism in pockets of our society. Institutional and systemic racism is still a thing in some sectors and that has to be rectified. Some of it is structural. Many minorities still face obstacles, i.e. law enforcement, qualifying for loans, medical care access, among other things. Those barriers have not been fully torn down, and until they are, there will remain disparities for minorities. It's well past time to address those issues.

It's happening in some areas, but not so much in others.
 

Paul

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 22, 2021
Messages
741
Reaction score
259
Location
Potomac, Maryland 20854
Offline
I'm not really seeing the denial of progress though. Most will quickly acknowledge that progress has been made.

That said, that doesn't mean the work is done. Progress should continue being made, and addressing legitimate grievances should be encouraged. I do think we're beyond being able to make some minority groups whole, but I also think it's not a hopeless goal to try and right the many wrongs that happened in the more distant past.

The bigger and more immediate problem is the still ongoing racism in pockets of our society. Institutional and systemic racism is still a thing in some sectors and that has to be rectified. Some of it is structural. Many minorities still face obstacles, i.e. law enforcement, qualifying for loans, medical care access, among other things. Those barriers have not been fully torn down, and until they are, there will remain disparities for minorities. It's well past time to address those issues.
I'm not really seeing the denial of progress though. Most will quickly acknowledge that progress has been made.

That said, that doesn't mean the work is done. Progress should continue being made, and addressing legitimate grievances should be encouraged. I do think we're beyond being able to make some minority groups whole, but I also think it's not a hopeless goal to try and right the many wrongs that happened in the more distant past.

The bigger and more immediate problem is the still ongoing racism in pockets of our society. Institutional and systemic racism is still a thing in some sectors and that has to be rectified. Some of it is structural. Many minorities still face obstacles, i.e. law enforcement, qualifying for loans, medical care access, among other things. Those barriers have not been fully torn down, and until they are, there will remain disparities for minorities. It's well past time to address those issues.

It's happening in some areas, but not so much in others.
I would like to see acknowledgment of process. I would also like to see acknowledgment that lack of progress may be related to issues that have nothing to do with racism.

Nigerians, Jamaicans, children of Indian immigrants, and many others with dark skin do quite well in America. Therefore there are other factors that impact progress that are not necessarily related to racism.
 

MT15

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 13, 2019
Messages
4,818
Reaction score
7,934
Location
Midwest
Offline
What you describe, Paul, has nothing to do with CRT, as I understand it. Nobody is teaching CRT in elementary schools.

Since everyone on here has acknowledged progress, I’m not sure why you keep saying it’s not being acknowledged.

Saying there is more work to be done does not equal saying no progress has been made.
 

Paul

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 22, 2021
Messages
741
Reaction score
259
Location
Potomac, Maryland 20854
Offline
What you describe, Paul, has nothing to do with CRT, as I understand it. Nobody is teaching CRT in elementary schools.
You are correct! However, your argument is shallow. What they are doing is a watered down version of anti-racism and social justice that has some roots on CRT. I am OK with that as long as they do not label white kids as oppressors and POC as victims in class. I do not like the idea of dividing students according to skin color and to judge them according to skin color. Perhaps this is only done in a small number of schools, but as far as I am concerned that sort of indoctrination is not the way to go.
Since everyone on here has acknowledged progress, I’m not sure why you keep saying it’s not being acknowledged.
The media and black leaders never acknowledge the progress. And when they talk about the progress they use it as a platform to further promote victimhood. I have Hispanic children and did not want then to grow up with a victim mindset.
Saying there is more work to be done does not equal saying no progress has been made.
Part of that work requires the realization that bad personal decisions are keeping POC down. It is important to discuss and tackle those issues.
 
Last edited:

cuddlemonkey

Well-known monkey
Joined
May 17, 2019
Messages
1,510
Reaction score
1,915
Offline
You are correct! However, your argument is shallow. What they are doing is a watered down version of anti-racism and social justice that has some roots on CRT. I am OK with that as long as they do not label white kids as oppressors and POC as victims in class. I do not like the idea of dividing students according to skin color and to judge them according to skin color. Perhaps this is only done in a small number of schools, but as far as I am concerned that sort of indoctrination is not the way to go.

The media and black leaders never acknowledge the progress. And when they talk about the progress they use it as a platform to further promote victimhood. I have Hispanic children and did not want then to grow up with a victim mindset.

Part of that work requires the realization that bad personal decisions are keeping POC down. It is important to discuss and tackle those issues.

So black folks can't make the right decisions, therefore whatever hardships they face are their fault.

I could have sworn you said you weren't blaming victims, but now you're blaming victims with a racist twist.
 

Paul

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 22, 2021
Messages
741
Reaction score
259
Location
Potomac, Maryland 20854
Offline
So black folks can't make the right decisions, therefore whatever hardships they face are their fault.

I could have sworn you said you weren't blaming victims, but now you're blaming victims with a racist twist.
Folks! Here Here is the problem. Many want to assume that there is only one variable (racism) as the cause of disparity. No one wants to look at any other possible variables. And if anyone mentions other variables the R word is invoked.
 

MT15

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 13, 2019
Messages
4,818
Reaction score
7,934
Location
Midwest
Offline
Hmmm, seems that you were the one that just said “bad personal decisions are keeping POC down”.

That seems to be inclusive of the race, and not qualified.
 

MT15

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 13, 2019
Messages
4,818
Reaction score
7,934
Location
Midwest
Offline
Plus, you are saying things that are simply not true. In these discussions I know for a fact that people have discussed your other variables, including single parent homes and so on.

Acknowledging that there are ALSO racial components doesn’t mean that other components are being ignored.
 

Paul

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 22, 2021
Messages
741
Reaction score
259
Location
Potomac, Maryland 20854
Offline
Hmmm, seems that you were the one that just said “bad personal decisions are keeping POC down”.

That seems to be inclusive of the race, and not qualified.
It is important to receive negative criticism without being offended. I understand this is not for everybody, however I personally love to receive negative criticism because it teaches me to grow in a new direction.
 

Paul

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 22, 2021
Messages
741
Reaction score
259
Location
Potomac, Maryland 20854
Offline
Plus, you are saying things that are simply not true. In these discussions I know for a fact that people have discussed your other variables, including single parent homes and so on.

Acknowledging that there are ALSO racial components doesn’t mean that other components are being ignored.
I would like to see a national plan to improve the quality of the home of poor people. I would like to see a national plan were poor people are giving the same tools that Asian and Indian families have to make it in America. This requires a massive cultural change and leadership from above. It requires personal courage and leaving behind the concept that the problem has to be solved by another ethnic group (the white people).
 

cuddlemonkey

Well-known monkey
Joined
May 17, 2019
Messages
1,510
Reaction score
1,915
Offline
It is important to receive negative criticism without being offended. I understand this is not for everybody, however I personally love to receive negative criticism because it teaches me to grow in a new direction.

The things you say are racist and dismissive of anything that doesn't fit what you already believe. Your posts have gaslit people, talked down to people, and generally conveyed a disdain for anyone that isn't you. Your posts also repeatedly place the blame for racism on the victims of other people's racist behavior.

There you go, your negative criticism for the day.
 

Paul

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 22, 2021
Messages
741
Reaction score
259
Location
Potomac, Maryland 20854
Offline
The things you say are racist and dismissive of anything that doesn't fit what you already believe. Your posts have gaslit people, talked down to people, and generally conveyed a disdain for anyone that isn't you. Your posts also repeatedly place the blame for racism on the victims of other people's racist behavior.

There you go, your negative criticism for the day.
I don’t believe I have said anything racist. However, I have said many things that go against the grain. If we want to have a dialogue to perhaps discover something new we must accept that at times the conversation is not 100% congruent. No one I know wants to hear a different opinion that causes discomfort. However, it is best to risk having negative feelings to learn something new. I have learned a lot from many posters here. I do not think it is threatening to hear other views.
 

cuddlemonkey

Well-known monkey
Joined
May 17, 2019
Messages
1,510
Reaction score
1,915
Offline
I don’t believe I have said anything racist. However, I have said many things that go against the grain. If we want to have a dialogue to perhaps discover something new we must accept that at times the conversation is not 100% congruent. No one I know wants to hear a different opinion that causes discomfort. However, it is best to risk having negative feelings to learn something new. I have learned a lot from many posters here. I do not think it is threatening to hear other views.

It's been shown to you more than once. You blame racism on how the victims of racism react to the racism foisted upon them and you just blamed poverty in the African American community on the people living in poverty. Those are the two examples that I've personally interacted with, so I am likely missing some.

Nobody participating on this board is doing so because they are afraid to hear differing opinions. If someone states an opinion that others find discomforting, perhaps the fault lies with the opinion itself and not how others receive it.
 

Paul

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 22, 2021
Messages
741
Reaction score
259
Location
Potomac, Maryland 20854
Offline
You blame racism on how the victims of racism react to the racism foisted upon
Can you explain what you mean above. I don't quite get what you are saying. IN general terms I do not agree with the concept of fighting racism with racism.
You just blamed poverty in the African American community on the people living in poverty.
Did I say that? The roots of poverty are the same in all groups. Why is that racist?
Those are the two examples that I've personally interacted with, so I am likely missing some.
Could you be more specific? If I was offensive I will gladly retract the comment. However, I want more detail.
Nobody participating on this board is doing so because they are afraid to hear differing opinions. If someone states an opinion that others find discomforting, perhaps the fault lies with the opinion itself and not how others receive it.
I do not find offense when someone makes an argument that destroys my point of view. If anything I am grateful for the exchange of words. IMO, this is not about winning or losing.
 

Create an account or login to comment

You must be a member in order to leave a comment

Create account

Create an account on our community. It's easy!

Log in

Already have an account? Log in here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Advertisement

General News Feed

Fact Checkers News Feed

Sponsored

Top Bottom