All things Racist...USA edition (1 Viewer)

SaulGoodmanEsq

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But the narrative is the 'white man' and if that narrative went away, the liberals would lose half their voting block.
That presumes the fact the GOP campaigns on anything these days other than 'Own the Libs' and shallow memes of American greatness. Spoilers: They don't.
 

cuddlemonkey

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Can you explain what you mean above. I don't quite get what you are saying. IN general terms I do not agree with the concept of fighting racism with racism.

Did I say that? The roots of poverty are the same in all groups. Why is that racist?

Could you be more specific? If I was offensive I will gladly retract the comment. However, I want more detail.

I do not find offense when someone makes an argument that destroys my point of view. If anything I am grateful for the exchange of words. IMO, this is not about winning or losing.

1. I explained this more than once already, so this is the last I Will say on the subject. These are your words from Peice of work t#350 in this thread:

"Whether someone is offended or not is a personal choice and a sense of feeling put down by others. In other words the so-called racism requires one group to feel superior and the other group to feel inferior. If both groups felt they were equal it would be difficult to practice racism."


2. Yes, you said that. It's racist because you brought race into it by singling out a specific race to condemn while ignoring the real and nuanced discussion happening all around you. These are your words from post #872 in this thread:

"Part of that work requires the realization that bad personal decisions are keeping POC down. It is important to discuss and tackle those issues."


3. I've been quite specific, as have others, yet you haven't retracted any of your clearly racist comments. You have been given details and this sealioning really needs to stop.

4. This is another example of you ignoring the point being made in order to say something completely unrelated. You repeatedly fail to engage with the posts you are quoting. Perhaps you should slow down and make sure you understand what is being said before you respond with unrelated nonsense.
 

Saint by the Bay

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That presumes the fact the GOP campaigns on anything these days other than 'Own the Libs' and shallow memes of American greatness. Spoilers: They don't.
It also completely ignores the Southern Strategy of the Republicans specifically targeting whites angry about diversity and inclusion by attacking minorities. That’s what created the current dynamic, not Democrats no matter how many times it’s falsely claimed otherwise.
 

Paul

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1. I explained this more than once already, so this is the last I Will say on the subject. These are your words from Peice of work t#350 in this thread:

"Whether someone is offended or not is a personal choice and a sense of feeling put down by others. In other words the so-called racism requires one group to feel superior and the other group to feel inferior. If both groups felt they were equal it would be difficult to practice racism."

OK, admit those are incendiary words and if you are offended I apologize to you. There is a built in lack of balance between groups and hence racism happens. I have been a victim of racism in a very real manner. To the point that I considered changing by Spanish surname. I americanized the name of my son because I didn't want him to be discriminated. However, at the same time I wanted him to be strong and to not allow obstacles get in his way.
2. Yes, you said that. It's racist because you brought race into it by singling out a specific race to condemn while ignoring the real and nuanced discussion happening all around you. These are your words from post #872 in this thread:

"Part of that work requires the realization that bad personal decisions are keeping POC down. It is important to discuss and tackle those issues."

Poor personal decisions keep all groups down so it was improper to only single out POC. That was my bad.
3. I've been quite specific, as have others, yet you haven't retracted any of your clearly racist comments. You have been given details and this sealioning really needs to stop.

4. This is another example of you ignoring the point being made in order to say something completely unrelated. You repeatedly fail to engage with the posts you are quoting. Perhaps you should slow down and make sure you understand what is being said before you respond with unrelated nonsense.
OK, but I do not want to feel I am walking on eggshells. I will keep an open mind.
 

SaintForLife

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I do not know anyone that opposes the teaching of American history as it was. My kids went to Catholic schools and they had a ton of history lessons with regards to slavery and everything that followed. Most young educated people of this era understand the damage done by the past. Sadly these days many refuse to acknowledge the progress made.

The issue with the teaching history is that in some schools kids are kids divided into oppressors and victims and that has nothing to do with the teaching of history.

These guys have a healthy discussion about CRT:
Excellent video you posted about the discussion of CRT which is being taught in schools despite the lefts claim that it’s not. They talk about that in the video. I really like McWhorter and Loury’s discussions about race.
 

Paul

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Excellent video you posted about the discussion of CRT which is being taught in schools despite the lefts claim that it’s not. They talk about that in the video. I really like McWhorter and Loury’s discussions about race.
These two guys do not have a distorted perception of reality. I have ben a fan of their videos for a long time.
 

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This is my perspective as an outsider to American history.
So, @Paul I want to be very honest and transparent before I respond to you. It is my personal opinion (and I completely acknowledge I have no concrete evidence to support my conjecture) that you say things in your posts because you think it makes you look favorable or wins debate points without the awareness that it creates conflicts and incongruencies in past assertions.

More succinctly, I'm not buying what you are selling. I have a hard time believing that someone who has lived here for 50 years can call themselves "an outsider to American history." My common sense radar has an issue with that. However, in an effort to promote good faith discussion, I will put that aside and take what you are saying as truth. So...

Being that you have lived here for 50 years and your perspective is that of someone who is "an outsider to American history" then I must say that explains a lot. It confirms my suspicion that you don't have an adequate knowledge base to speak as authoritatively on this subject as you do. And that's cool. Here is the thing. I don't expect you to. I think we all need to become a lot more comfortable admitting that.

I'm constantly having conversations and learning from the women in my life because being male in a male dominated society means I have blindspots. I am constantly having conversations and learning from the lgtbqia+ persons in my life because being heterosexual in a straight dominated society means I have blindspots. The same is true for my Atheists, Agnostic and non-Christian based faith acquaintances. Blindspots. My disabled friends; again, blindspots.

Based on some of the assertions you make, I can tell that you are woefully unaware of the AA experience of being Black in America. Now, I don't hold you accountable for that, per se. Blindspots, remember? However, as deep as you have dug into your position also tells me you don't have an adequate counterweight in your bubble to challenge your perspective. For me, being male, being straight, being "Christian," and being able-bodied means I've formed some pretty strong opinions about what it means to walk in this society and I take a lot of things for granted. Fortunately, two things keep me grounded.

One, my race. It is a constant reminder, an obvious check and balance, to not allow the dominant perspective be the only perspective I consider. And not just consider but give validity and even acquiesce too (if necessary). Because in that arena, I'm the minority and I understand how it feels to be dismissed. Two, for the areas where I am the majority, I have persons in my life to challenge my perspective. But more than that, I'm willing to be challenged. I'm open to the possibility I could be wrong, to be frank. I'm open to criticism and I'm humble enough to accept it. Majorly, I get that empathy is required. I won't understand every critique as it is given. Some things won't make sense right away or at all. I'm not advocating that you sit here and just be lectured to. I'm not saying YOU are the one to have change your position, always.

I'm not saying you can't have opinions and express them. I'm not even looking for an apology. It isn't required to be honest. But, you have at least four black men (that I know of) who are trying to convey to you our perspective and tell you that you are missing the mark on this topic. Rather than pontificate to you and be obscure, let me be specific.

You ask, and I'm paraphrasing, "Why can't the progress we've made be celebrated more?" A legitimate question. As a black man I would tell you that you need to be more specific. What aspect of progress are you looking to celebrate? Human rights? Well, yes, certainly a worthy applause. I have numerous human rights now than did my ancestors in 1721. Voting rights? Initially, that would be a resounding yes. I have the right to vote. I couldn't have said that hundreds of years ago. However, if you dig into the nuance of "voting rights," can we really state that the moment Blacks were given the right to vote that we were simply left to our own devices? "Be free, go vote." Well, no. While progress has been made, there are things happening, today, that are regressive in nature and effecting a minorities vote. Not the right itself, but the effectiveness of it. How I can vote (mail in, voter id). Where I can vote. How long it takes to vote. The district I vote in (gerrymandering). Now, I understand all those things are up for political debate, and I welcome that, but if you rolled up on an AA and said, "Hey, the right to vote, we are making progress, celebrate that!" understand why, from OUR perspective you may not get an overwhelming "you're right!" if you get one at all. Progress is relative.

We need to be careful with the word progress. You have to be clear on what you are seeking to highlight. Now, you might say, well FTP I'm talking in general. Generally, we've made progress. But, again, relative to what? Take wealth. That's a biggie. I'll just take myself but I'm sure if you asked @Saint by the Bay @Saintamaniac @Optimus Prime that they all will agree on this next point. I'm a successful Black man. Financially, I've done well for myself. Right away, you may say, well FTP, there you go. What are you talking about systemic racism? What does the founders being racist have to do with you being successful? That alone is evidence of progress. Relativity, though, remember?


Black boys raised in America, even in the wealthiest families and living in some of the most well-to-do neighborhoods, still earn less in adulthood than white boys with similar backgrounds, according to a sweeping new study that traced the lives of millions of children.

White boys who grow up rich are likely to remain that way. Black boys raised at the top, however, are more likely to become poor than to stay wealthy in their own adult households.

Even when children grow up next to each other with parents who earn similar incomes, black boys fare worse than white boys in 99 percent of America. And the gaps only worsen in the kind of neighborhoods that promise low poverty and good schools.


The data from this 2018 study is sobering and astonishing. It blows up the idea that class matters more than race. Or, the fallacy that "family structure" can be a deterrent to poverty. The data is the data. Even if I blow through the poverty gap, smashing to smithereens that glass ceiling, the likelihood that my children will reap the benefits of a wealth transfer are not good. If I'm rich, they are more likely to be poor adults (21%) than rich adults (17%). I say children but it's really black boys. White boys, whose father is rich, by far, will also be rich (39%), more than anything else and certainly more than being poor (10%). Now, knowing that, does that mean that myself, SBTB, Optimus and Saintamaniac won't be fighting like hell to make sure that our boys are in that 17% and definitely not in that 21%? Individually, yes, you bet your arse we will. But, facts are facts. Of the four us, the likelihood any of our sons will see the amount of wealth we incur in their lives is slim.

I, mean, I made it. Too bad for FTP Jr though. Is that progress worth celebrating? I don't find that anything to be patting ourselves on the back over. So, knowing that, you might say, well FTP, the progress isn't in the wealth transferring, the progress is in the racism you face. You have money bro. You aren't facing the racism your father did. Uhh...



A new poll, by NPR, the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation and the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health surveyed more than 800 African-Americans and found that for prosperous blacks, money does not shield them from bigotry.

But when broken down by income, of blacks folks who are high earners — those making $75,000 a year or more — 65 percent say they were the target of racial slurs compared with 40 percent of blacks who make $25,000 or less.

High-income African-Americans outpaced their lower-income counterparts once again on the issue of people making negative assumptions about them, 73 percent and 45 percent respectively.


But, I've made it though, right? Woo-hoo progress! I'm not an unreasonable person. I can see this country has moved more forwards than backwards. I'm a product of that. But, it's relative and, for me, it isn't as simple as we have moved more forward than backwards, so shut the hell up, stop focusing on the past, work hard, make good decisions and racism will go away. But, there is a direct correlation to Thomas Jefferson being a "racist" to the racism I face today and if more persons, like yourself, would take a step back, properly learn the history, listen, get more diverse in your perspective then maybe you can go from being an "outsider" to our history to an Insider and you can stop being a bystander and become an ally. But, that's if you are desirous of that sort of thing. If your interest is in maintaining the status quo, that's cool, but then you don't have a place in this discussion and should take several seats. You can speak with authority on it once you lived it. Let's all hope that day never comes.
 

CoolBrees

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“Shut up and dribble” was the most poignant thing that idiot Laura Ingraham has ever said. For reasons that were the opposite of her intention of course.

and on a note completely unrelated; I read the last week of this thread and I couldn’t help think of an old SNL Phil Hartman sketch - Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer.

Paraphrasing UCL-
“Your Honor and members of the jury, I’m just a cavemen. I was walking and fell into some ice and your scientists thawed me out 1000’s of years later and sent me to law school. Your world frightens me. I don’t understand your strange ways and customs. When I was a caveman I was fighting for survival of man. Not some bird. So I ask the development commission to approve the removal of the wetlands’ protections so the condominium development my clients are proposing can move forward. Thank you.”
 

Paul

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Thank you for such a detailed post. I certainly love a discussion!
So, @Paul I want to be very honest and transparent before I respond to you. It is my personal opinion (and I completely acknowledge I have no concrete evidence to support my conjecture) that you say things in your posts because you think it makes you look favorable or wins debate points without the awareness that it creates conflicts and incongruencies in past assertions.
To a certain extent that is true for most posters. However, I do not have issues with accepting a reasonable position that is different than mine. I am a centrist and therefore I will have positions that are odd for those that are well immersed on the right or the left.
More succinctly, I'm not buying what you are selling. I have a hard time believing that someone who has lived here for 50 years can call themselves "an outsider to American history." My common sense radar has an issue with that. However, in an effort to promote good faith discussion, I will put that aside and take what you are saying as truth. So...
I think I understand American culture, but my early formation was outside the USA, therefore I could never assimilate all there is to assimilate about what it is to be American. BTW, I often compare myself to other Latins born and raised in the USA and they have traits I do not have. They seem more schooled on the issues of discrimination. I experienced discrimination, but I thought it was normal to have that sort of struggle since I was not one of the home boys.
Being that you have lived here for 50 years and your perspective is that of someone who is "an outsider to American history" then I must say that explains a lot. It confirms my suspicion that you don't have an adequate knowledge base to speak as authoritatively on this subject as you do. And that's cool. Here is the thing. I don't expect you to. I think we all need to become a lot more comfortable admitting that.
I have admitted that at nauseam. However, I think I can still provide an opinion that has some validity since I was not raised in the left or right wing echo chambers of this country.

If I was on the left and a social justice enthusiast I could give you a hard time for condescending xenophobia. However I do not feel you are xenophobic or condescending. And if you were no big deal, the problem would be yours and not mine.
I'm constantly having conversations and learning from the women in my life because being male in a male dominated society means I have blindspots. I am constantly having conversations and learning from the lgtbqia+ persons in my life because being heterosexual in a straight dominated society means I have blindspots. The same is true for my Atheists, Agnostic and non-Christian based faith acquaintances. Blindspots. My disabled friends; again, blindspots.
I have zero issues with LGBTQIA+. I say live and let live. That issue has never been in my radar. I know gay and lesbian women and they are just like anyone else.
I love strong traditional women. Humans are human and some are female and others male, but at the end it is a Ying and Yang issue and we are one. I do not see women as a different life form when compared to men.

I admit that evolution gave women a hard role. Up until the discovery of contraception women could expect to be pregnant all the time from menarche to menopause. Achieving in life while being pregnant al the time could not have been easy. To makes matters worse evolution gave us sexual dimorphism where the male was larger, stronger, and much more aggressive. Biology explains the hegemony of men. I am not saying it was a good thing. I am just providing an explanation.
Based on some of the assertions you make, I can tell that you are woefully unaware of the AA experience of being Black in America. Now, I don't hold you accountable for that, per se. Blindspots, remember? However, as deep as you have dug into your position also tells me you don't have an adequate counterweight in your bubble to challenge your perspective. For me, being male, being straight, being "Christian," and being able-bodied means I've formed some pretty strong opinions about what it means to walk in this society and I take a lot of things for granted. Fortunately, two things keep me grounded.
You are correct, I could never walk in the shoes of AA , but I believe I can understand how they feel. However, they are going about it the wrong way. They have taken a path that I think is wrong.

My neighbor is Nigerian and we have discussed this issue many times. My neighbor has experienced racism and he handled it just as I did. It was not a mortal blow to his persona because his formation was outside the USA. He did not grow up with the racism baggage 24/7. Racism has done a lot of psychological damage to AAs. When I was growing up I never had to deal with any of the uncertainties AA have to face in America. I never had to think about the concept of racism or discrimination. I was with my peers and we were all in the same boat.

I acknowledge 100% of the atrocities done to AA. But, I think the solution to the problem lies elsewhere. What we are doing is making things worse, not better.
One, my race. It is a constant reminder, an obvious check and balance, to not allow the dominant perspective be the only perspective I consider. And not just consider but give validity and even acquiesce too (if necessary). Because in that arena, I'm the minority and I understand how it feels to be dismissed. Two, for the areas where I am the majority, I have persons in my life to challenge my perspective. But more than that, I'm willing to be challenged. I'm open to the possibility I could be wrong, to be frank. I'm open to criticism and I'm humble enough to accept it.
See my post above.
Majorly, I get that empathy is required. I won't understand every critique as it is given. Some things won't make sense right away or at all. I'm not advocating that you sit here and just be lectured to. I'm not saying YOU are the one to have change your position, always.
My position regarding racism in America is the one expressed by Robert McWhorter and Glenn Loury. I am not saying these guys shaped my views. I am saying that I agree with them since day one. I feel they have a clear perspective.
I'm not saying you can't have opinions and express them. I'm not even looking for an apology. It isn't required to be honest. But, you have at least four black men (that I know of) who are trying to convey to you our perspective and tell you that you are missing the mark on this topic. Rather than pontificate to you and be obscure, let me be specific.
OK!
You ask, and I'm paraphrasing, "Why can't the progress we've made be celebrated more?" A legitimate question. As a black man I would tell you that you need to be more specific. What aspect of progress are you looking to celebrate? Human rights? Well, yes, certainly a worthy applause. I have numerous human rights now than did my ancestors in 1721. Voting rights? Initially, that would be a resounding yes. I have the right to vote. I couldn't have said that hundreds of years ago. However, if you dig into the nuance of "voting rights," can we really state that the moment Blacks were given the right to vote that we were simply left to our own devices? "Be free, go vote." Well, no. While progress has been made, there are things happening, today, that are regressive in nature and effecting a minorities vote. Not the right itself, but the effectiveness of it. How I can vote (mail in, voter id). Where I can vote. How long it takes to vote. The district I vote in (gerrymandering). Now, I understand all those things are up for political debate, and I welcome that, but if you rolled up on an AA and said, "Hey, the right to vote, we are making progress, celebrate that!" understand why, from OUR perspective you may not get an overwhelming "you're right!" if you get one at all. Progress is relative.
There is progress, but more work needs to be done. If you had ask an AA in 2006 if we would ever have a black POTUS the answer would have been a resounding NO!. And yet Obama was elected POTUS 53 years after the Rosa parks incident. IN terms of world history that is an eye-blink. However, the angst regarding racism is the same as in the 1950-60s even though there has been improvement. I think the angst is related to lack of patience, frustration, and the a traumatic stress disorder passed from generation to generation. And this is to be expected and perhaps that is why we are taking the route we are taking. However, I wish we could deal with this differently.
We need to be careful with the word progress. You have to be clear on what you are seeking to highlight. Now, you might say, well FTP I'm talking in general. Generally, we've made progress. But, again, relative to what? Take wealth. That's a biggie. I'll just take myself but I'm sure if you asked @Saint by the Bay @Saintamaniac @Optimus Prime that they all will agree on this next point. I'm a successful Black man. Financially, I've done well for myself. Right away, you may say, well FTP, there you go. What are you talking about systemic racism? What does the founders being racist have to do with you being successful? That alone is evidence of progress. Relativity, though, remember?


Black boys raised in America, even in the wealthiest families and living in some of the most well-to-do neighborhoods, still earn less in adulthood than white boys with similar backgrounds, according to a sweeping new study that traced the lives of millions of children.

White boys who grow up rich are likely to remain that way. Black boys raised at the top, however, are more likely to become poor than to stay wealthy in their own adult households.

Even when children grow up next to each other with parents who earn similar incomes, black boys fare worse than white boys in 99 percent of America. And the gaps only worsen in the kind of neighborhoods that promise low poverty and good schools.


The data from this 2018 study is sobering and astonishing. It blows up the idea that class matters more than race. Or, the fallacy that "family structure" can be a deterrent to poverty. The data is the data. Even if I blow through the poverty gap, smashing to smithereens that glass ceiling, the likelihood that my children will reap the benefits of a wealth transfer are not good. If I'm rich, they are more likely to be poor adults (21%) than rich adults (17%). I say children but it's really black boys. White boys, whose father is rich, by far, will also be rich (39%), more than anything else and certainly more than being poor (10%). Now, knowing that, does that mean that myself, SBTB, Optimus and Saintamaniac won't be fighting like hell to make sure that our boys are in that 17% and definitely not in that 21%? Individually, yes, you bet your arse we will. But, facts are facts. Of the four us, the likelihood any of our sons will see the amount of wealth we incur in their lives is slim.
I hear you loud and clear. And my children may not do as well as WASP kids. I somehow accept that not all groups achieve equally. I know the data you present is depressing, but the degree of achievement among Latin American immigrants is highly variable according to the nation of origin. The same can be said about Americans of European heritage. Their degree of success varies according to where their ancestors came from. The same happens with Asian immigrants. Not all of them are as successful as the South Koreans. The same applies to immigrants from Africa. Not all do as well as Nigerians. I would also expect those with new wealth to lose the wealth faster than hose with old wealth.

What I don't like about studies like that is that they invoke systemic racism as an abstract because results are not equal. For me systemic racism is more palpable; such as in my case. I almost did not get approved for a mortgage because the secretary put my application out of the system. Or the day the I sent an application for a position at the same time an Anglo friend. My friend got a prompt response and I never heard from them. Poor people in the criminal system get awful lawyers. Many cops are violent and racists. Those are systemic issues.
I, mean, I made it. Too bad for FTP Jr though. Is that progress worth celebrating? I don't find that anything to be patting ourselves on the back over. So, knowing that, you might say, well FTP, the progress isn't in the wealth transferring, the progress is in the racism you face. You have money bro. You aren't facing the racism your father did. Uhh...



A new poll, by NPR, the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation and the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health surveyed more than 800 African-Americans and found that for prosperous blacks, money does not shield them from bigotry.

But when broken down by income, of blacks folks who are high earners — those making $75,000 a year or more — 65 percent say they were the target of racial slurs compared with 40 percent of blacks who make $25,000 or less.

High-income African-Americans outpaced their lower-income counterparts once again on the issue of people making negative assumptions about them, 73 percent and 45 percent respectively.


But, I've made it though, right? Woo-hoo progress! I'm not an unreasonable person. I can see this country has moved more forwards than backwards. I'm a product of that. But, it's relative and, for me, it isn't as simple as we have moved more forward than backwards, so shut the hell up, stop focusing on the past, work hard, make good decisions and racism will go away. But, there is a direct correlation to Thomas Jefferson being a "racist" to the racism I face today and if more persons, like yourself, would take a step back, properly learn the history, listen, get more diverse in your perspective then maybe you can go from being an "outsider" to our history to an Insider and you can stop being a bystander and become an ally. But, that's if you are desirous of that sort of thing. If your interest is in maintaining the status quo, that's cool, but then you don't have a place in this discussion and should take several seats. You can speak with authority on it once you lived it. Let's all hope that day never comes.
Racism is real. However, I have to get back to my point. I disagree with the methods used to reduce racism. The proposed anti-racist perspective only works to a certain point. I would do it in a totally different manner. Otherwise, the frustration will grow.

Thank you for explaining all those issues. They are quite valid.
 
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zztop

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I had no idea there were places like these


More than 600 places have the word "n----," a slur for Black people, in their name, according to a database from the US Geological Survey. In Oklahoma there is Dead N---- Spring, so-named because a deceased Black person was found there, according to the USGS.

In New Mexico, there is a reservoir called W------ Tank, named with a slur for Mexican people living in the US. Nearly 800 results are returned by the USGS database when searching for the term "s----," an offensive word for Native American women.

"These terms are harmful relics from the era of invidious yet lawful discrimination that must be removed from public property," Congressman Green said. "Racism, even in geography, cannot be tolerated in a country that strives for liberty and justice for all."

The bill would establish an advisory board of civil rights experts and tribal organizations and solicit comment from the public on name change proposals. The board would then make renaming recommendations to the proper government body, such as Congress in the case of federal land units.
 

SystemShock

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BTW, I often compare myself to other Latins born and raised in the USA and they have traits I do not have.
Maybe that should give you a clue about using "Latin" as if everyone South of the border were the same, but I doubt it.

How old are you, anyway?
 

Paul

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Maybe that should give you a clue about using "Latin" as if everyone South of the border were the same, but I doubt it.

How old are you, anyway?
Yes, we are all different, but the ones born in the USA have features not seen anywhere in Latin America. They are more focused on inequality and are more in tune with the concepts of discrimination. They also tend to speak Spanglish rather than Spanish. Rightfully so!
 

Paul

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I had no idea there were places like these


More than 600 places have the word "n----," a slur for Black people, in their name, according to a database from the US Geological Survey. In Oklahoma there is Dead N---- Spring, so-named because a deceased Black person was found there, according to the USGS.

In New Mexico, there is a reservoir called W------ Tank, named with a slur for Mexican people living in the US. Nearly 800 results are returned by the USGS database when searching for the term "s----," an offensive word for Native American women.

"These terms are harmful relics from the era of invidious yet lawful discrimination that must be removed from public property," Congressman Green said. "Racism, even in geography, cannot be tolerated in a country that strives for liberty and justice for all."

The bill would establish an advisory board of civil rights experts and tribal organizations and solicit comment from the public on name change proposals. The board would then make renaming recommendations to the proper government body, such as Congress in the case of federal land units.
Change the names, that is an easy thing to do. I hope they have moderation in doing this.
 

SystemShock

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Yes, we are all different, but the ones born in the USA have features not seen anywhere in Latin America. They are more focused on inequality and are more in tune with the concepts of discrimination. They also tend to speak Spanglish rather than Spanish. Rightfully so!

Keep on digging that hole.
 

Saintamaniac

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Thank you for such a detailed post. I certainly love a discussion!

To a certain extent that is true for most posters. However, I do not have issues with accepting a reasonable position that is different than mine. I am a centrist and therefore I will have positions that are odd for those that are well immersed on the right or the left.

I think I understand American culture, but my early formation was outside the USA, therefore I could never assimilate all there is to assimilate about what it is to be American. BTW, I often compare myself to other Latins born and raised in the USA and they have traits I do not have. They seem more schooled on the issues of discrimination. I experienced discrimination, but I thought it was normal to have that sort of struggle since I was not one of the home boys.

I have admitted that at nauseam. However, I think I can still provide an opinion that has some validity since I was not raised in the left or right wing echo chambers of this country.

If I was on the left and a social justice enthusiast I could give you a hard time for condescending xenophobia. However I do not feel you are xenophobic or condescending. And if you were no big deal, the problem would be yours and not mine.

I have zero issues with LGBTQIA+. I say live and let live. That issue has never been in my radar. I know gay and lesbian women and they are just like anyone else.
I love strong traditional women. Humans are human and some are female and others male, but at the end it is a Ying and Yang issue and we are one. I do not see women as a different life form when compared to men.

I admit that evolution gave women a hard role. Up until the discovery of contraception women could expect to be pregnant all the time from menarche to menopause. Achieving in life while being pregnant al the time could not have been easy. To makes matters worse evolution gave us sexual dimorphism where the male was larger, stronger, and much more aggressive. Biology explains the hegemony of men. I am not saying it was a good thing. I am just providing an explanation.

You are correct, I could never walk in the shoes of AA , but I believe I can understand how they feel. However, they are going about it the wrong way. They have taken a path that I think is wrong.

My neighbor is Nigerian and we have discussed this issue many times. My neighbor has experienced racism and he handled it just as I did. It was not a mortal blow to his persona because his formation was outside the USA. He did not grow up with the racism baggage 24/7. Racism has done a lot of psychological damage to AAs. When I was growing up I never had to deal with any of the uncertainties AA have to face in America. I never had to think about the concept of racism or discrimination. I was with my peers and we were all in the same boat.

I acknowledge 100% of the atrocities done to AA. But, I think the solution to the problem lies elsewhere. What we are doing is making things worse, not better.

See my post above.

My position regarding racism in America is the one expressed by Robert McWhorter and Glenn Loury. I am not saying these guys shaped my views. I am saying that I agree with them since day one. I feel they have a clear perspective.

OK!

There is progress, but more work needs to be done. If you had ask an AA in 2006 if we would ever have a black POTUS the answer would have been a resounding NO!. And yet Obama was elected POTUS 53 years after the Rosa parks incident. IN terms of world history that is an eye-blink. However, the angst regarding racism is the same as in the 1950-60s even though there has been improvement. I think the angst is related to lack of patience, frustration, and the a traumatic stress disorder passed from generation to generation. And this is to be expected and perhaps that is why we are taking the route we are taking. However, I wish we could deal with this differently.

I hear you loud and clear. And my children may not do as well as WASP kids. I somehow accept that not all groups achieve equally. I know the data you present is depressing, but the degree of achievement among Latin American immigrants is highly variable according to the nation of origin. The same can be said about Americans of European heritage. Their degree of success varies according to where their ancestors came from. The same happens with Asian immigrants. Not all of them are as successful as the South Koreans. The same applies to immigrants from Africa. Not all do as well as Nigerians. I would also expect those with new wealth to lose the wealth faster than hose with old wealth.

What I don't like about studies like that is that they invoke systemic racism as an abstract because results are not equal. For me systemic racism is more palpable; such as in my case. I almost did not get approved for a mortgage because the secretary put my application out of the system. Or the day the I sent an application for a position at the same time an Anglo friend. My friend got a prompt response and I never heard from them. Poor people in the criminal system get awful lawyers. Many cops are violent and racists. Those are systemic issues.

Racism is real. However, I have to get back to my point. I disagree with the methods used to reduce racism. The proposed anti-racist perspective only works to a certain point. I would do it in a totally different manner. Otherwise, the frustration will grow.

Thank you for explaining all those issues. They are quite valid.
I think you completely missed the point of FTP's post. If I had to summarize it, I'd say his post gave examples of how he has strong opinions about some things that maybe he might not have as much perspective to have such strong opinions on but that he has two things that help to keep him from being overly zealous about those opinions: His race and people in his life that challenge his perspective on things where he might not have a majority perspective.

He went on to show you how your own perspective might need re-evaluating with respect to things that you really don't have enough experience with to form the strong opinions that you have with respect to black people in America. He gave you examples of how while individual progress may have been made, it doesn't follow that the same progress will pass on to his children and their children.

It didn't require a point by point refutation or validation with you having to use your family's experience as validation or agreement with his points. It simply required your acknowledgement of where there might be areas that you should challenge your own perspective especially when you venture into areas that you really really can't have a perspective because you don't live the experience.
 

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From Wil Wheaton's Blog
=================

These were posted in response to this comment:

Kinda weird how you say you’re against fascism yet you shut down anyone just because they share a different opinion than you. You guys are exactly what you say you hate... FASCIST! How come I have never seen any member of antifa actually sit down with someone and have a civil debate? I’ve only ever seen them yell and throw tantrums. Doesn’t look good for you guys, yikes.

fascist 1.jpg


fascist 2.jpg

fascist 3.png


and this is a good line:

If you insist on sheltering both lambs and wolves, you will get in the end only wolves.

If you insist your safe space is safe for bigots as well as minorities you will have a space full of bigots- minorities will be driven out.
 
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Optimus Prime

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Good article
==========
After seven years of corporate life, Mary Smith had a routine: putting extra effort into her hair (so as to not appear too Black) and her demeanor (ditto) and her clothes (you can probably guess).


But once she got a taste of the work-from-home life during the pandemic, Smith knew she could never go back. Her scalp was free from constraining hairstyles, and she could disappear from the screen if a colleague said something insulting.


A few months ago, her employer asked her to begin the transition back to in-person work. So she quit. “I was just very strongly against that,” said the 29-year-old project manager in Irving, Tex.


After the coronavirus sent millions of employees home, many Black women experienced a workday free of the micro and macro aggressions that followed them at their predominantly White workplaces.

They had the privacy to grieve the countless deaths that led to the racial unrest of last summer — without having to pretend to be okay for the comfort of their colleagues. And, naturally, many don’t want to return……..

 

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