All things political. Coronavirus Edition. (1 Viewer)

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Maxp

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I fear we are really going to be in a bad place due to the obvious cuts to the federal agencies that deal with infectious disease, but also the negative effect the Affordable Care act has had on non urban hospitals. Our front line defenses are ineffectual and our ability to treat the populous is probably at an all time low. Factor in the cost of healthcare and I can see our system crashing. What do you think about the politics of this virus?
 

Saintman2884

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I'm going to start giving you participation trophies too. What the heck are you talking about? Maher's schtick has been consistent since his Politically Incorrect days. Hint: his show was called "Politically Incorrect".

As for the Affleck incident: 1- Maher and Harris were correct, and 2- Affleck went into a steroid fueled rant (was training for Batman). Given your posting history, it is not possible you actually watched that bit; you would not have used it in your post.

In 5 years, he's going to be 70 years old, so yeah, he may be off the air by then.
He made some questionable, arguably race-baiting comments when a GOP senator(IIRC, from Nebraska), came on Maher's show in early 2017 to discuss his most recently-published book about a socio-economic study of poor, working-class rural families who work or own farms in Plains states or Rust Belt states, a very interesting case study that many in Maher's audience and most educated people, like me and you, System, might find educational. When Maher introduced his show's guest, after exchanging pleasantries, this senator begins discussing some of the findings in his book, Maher made some quip that in the antebellum South, he'd likely be some " house (expletive )".

To say that quite a few African-American viewers and commentators were upset with his racially-insensitive comments, would be an enormous understatement. Several notable African-American guests on his show who appeared after his quotes called him out on the carpet pretty hard.
 

Optimus Prime

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He made some questionable, arguably race-baiting comments when a GOP senator(IIRC, from Nebraska), came on Maher's show in early 2017 to discuss his most recently-published book about a socio-economic study of poor, working-class rural families who work or own farms in Plains states or Rust Belt states, a very interesting case study that many in Maher's audience and most educated people, like me and you, System, might find educational. When Maher introduced his show's guest, after exchanging pleasantries, this senator begins discussing some of the findings in his book, Maher made some quip that in the antebellum South, he'd likely be some " house (expletive )".

To say that quite a few African-American viewers and commentators were upset with his racially-insensitive comments, would be an enormous understatement. Several notable African-American guests on his show who appeared after his quotes called him out on the carpet pretty hard.
Ice Cube the very next week laid into him
 

wardorican

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So, while this may be the right sentiment, is it the right call politically?

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/rn...foxnews/politics (Internal - Politics - Text)

I'm talking more about Biden coming out about a mandate (I need to read more on this). Is this the wrong way to 'encourage' vaccines? Again, I feel the sentiment about patience wearing thin, but is this a bad idea?

"This is not about freedom or personal choice," Biden said during a Thursday address to the nation. "It's about protecting yourself and those around you, the people you work with, the people you care about, the people you love. My job as president is to protect all Americans."

"We've been patient but our patience is wearing thin and your refusal has cost all of us," Biden added, sending a direct message to those who have yet to get vaccinated.

Several Republican governors, as well as legal officials in certain states, have vowed to fight back against the mandates.

At the same token, this is the best way to get or keep the economy open, re-open international travel, and bring back some normalcy and hospital care to everyone. I do think anyone who has been infected with Covid prior should count as 'vaccinated'.
 

Optimus Prime

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Covid and the midterm elections
====================
Here’s a midterm message for you: Judging by the GOP’s continuing slide into extremist and destructive behavior in the face of a surging covid-19, electing more Republicans to positions of responsibility right now would likely mean more economic malaise, sickness, misery and death.


This is what Democrats come very close to saying in a new memo about the 2022 elections that their House campaign arm is now distributing.

The memo is an important marker: It suggests Democrats are finally leaning into prosecuting the case against Republicans for actively impairing the nation’s response to the covid-19 resurgence.
This cannot come soon enough.

A confluence of new factors is making it obvious that Democrats need to take on this argument much more forcefully, not just for the good of the party, but for the good of the country.


The memo from the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee directly ties GOP extremism on covid to the health of the country — and, importantly, to our prospects for economic recovery and a return to normalcy.


“House Republicans have lied about its impact” and “dangerously rejected medical guidance to wear masks and social distance,” the memo says, adding that “extremist Republicans” have “even encouraged Americans to consume horse and cattle dewormer.”


House Republicans and GOP candidates have spread disinformation about the virus, have staged epic fake-outrage fests about mask mandates, have demagogued about vaccines in ridiculous, hallucinogenic and obscenely wretched ways, and have pushed the rankest of absurdities to undermine confidence in federal health officials……..

 

wardorican

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Link to the whole plan.

 

J-DONK

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I'm going to start giving you participation trophies too. What the heck are you talking about? Maher's schtick has been consistent since his Politically Incorrect days. Hint: his show was called "Politically Incorrect".

As for the Affleck incident: 1- Maher and Harris were correct, and 2- Affleck went into a steroid fueled rant (was training for Batman). Given your posting history, it is not possible you actually watched that bit; you would not have used it in your post.

In 5 years, he's going to be 70 years old, so yeah, he may be off the air by then.

I wouldn't concede that Harris is right. The Islamic sphere lead the world in science, and math at one point. The guy who invented algebra had the name Muhammad. If the issue was inherently the religion this wouldn't have happened. In fact, I would argue that Harris overall point is lazy, and absolves first world countries of any role they played in these countries becoming extremist.

Iran, and Afghanistan were moderate Islamic countries in the 60's. What happened?

I mean just answer this question. Has America funded, and propped up any extremists country in the middle east that exports this form of religion to the surrounding area? I'll give you a hint the form of Islam is called Wahhabism. Also, 15 of the 19 9/11 hijackers were from this country.

Anyway, the biggest gaff Maher has made in the past 5 years was vaccines cause autism.
 

JRad

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So, while this may be the right sentiment, is it the right call politically?

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/rnc-announces-intention-to-sue-biden-admin-over-vaccine-mandates?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed: foxnews/politics (Internal - Politics - Text)

I'm talking more about Biden coming out about a mandate (I need to read more on this). Is this the wrong way to 'encourage' vaccines? Again, I feel the sentiment about patience wearing thin, but is this a bad idea?



At the same token, this is the best way to get or keep the economy open, re-open international travel, and bring back some normalcy and hospital care to everyone. I do think anyone who has been infected with Covid prior should count as 'vaccinated'.
Personally, I think it’s past time. The unvaccinated/non-maskers are holding us back (though I may argue that’s conservatism in general) for no reason other than an orange man who can’t even spell “science” decided it was “no big deal”. The selfishness of people who wouldn’t/won’t mask up is shameful. I’m still waiting on answer on exactly what right is being violated by “wear a mask”, and why it’s more important than my similar “right” to go to the grocery store without concern for my health (I’m on a slight immunosuppressant, and it’s for a respiratory issue)

That said, I understand the resistance to a mandate. The people who aren’t currently vaccinated aren‘t doing it unless they‘re forced (and still may not), and this is just going to dig them in more. But this isn’t the first vaccination that’s required, and it’s only an issue because certain people decided public health is a political issue to own the libs.
 

Saintman2884

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I wouldn't concede that Harris is right. The Islamic sphere lead the world in science, and math at one point. The guy who invented algebra had the name Muhammad. If the issue was inherently the religion this wouldn't have happened. In fact, I would argue that Harris overall point is lazy, and absolves first world countries of any role they played in these countries becoming extremist.

Iran, and Afghanistan were moderate Islamic countries in the 60's. What happened?

I mean just answer this question. Has America funded, and propped up any extremists country in the middle east that exports this form of religion to the surrounding area? I'll give you a hint the form of Islam is called Wahhabism. Also, 15 of the 19 9/11 hijackers were from this country.

Anyway, the biggest gaff Maher has made in the past 5 years was vaccines cause autism.
Afghanistan, in the beginning, even as far back as the 1960's, I wouldn't necessarily characterize it as a "moderate, Islamic country". It was certainly more secular, Western-friendly, a huge part of the worldwide, international " Hippie Trail " of the 1960's and 70's huge caravans that led Western hippies, intellectuals, Eastern esoteric philosophers, would-be mystics from Istanbul-Pakistan--Thailand. Afghanistan, for centuries, was ruled by a monarchy and was a key, strategic point of the "Great Game" nearly-century long 19th century "Cold War"-diplomatic, military, and often deadly geopolitical dueling chess matches between Czarist Russia and the British and sometimes French, Empires over who'd control the crumbling old Ottoman Empire(" Eastern Question"), Iran, Afghanistan, Indian subcontinent, British even invaded Tibet in 1903 and there were several proxy Anglo-Afghan wars in the 19th century, by WWI, Afghanistan kind of fell under Russian sphere of influence, then the Soviet Union came along. Afghanistan was the first nation to recognize new Soviet Union in 1922 and they remained one another's closest economic, military trading partner.

But even under centuries of monarchical rule, Afghanistan never really was a strongly unified country, if we had traveled to Afghanistan in the 1890's, outside of Kabul, the country was littered with semi-automous territories controlled by various different, often quarreling ethno-religious tribes just less, puritanical Islamic fundamentalism unlike today.

What happened was in 1978 there was a bloody, violent left-wing military coup called the Saur Revolution, who overthrew the monarchy, and wanting to radically secularize the country even faster than what Shah Pavlavi did in Iran for nearly 30 years, they initiated radical land reforms, broke up large estates, set up a one-party Communist dictatorship, but also collectively thumbed their noses at deeply-entrenched conservative Afghan traditions in the rural countryside. If that had occurred maybe 100 years before, it might've succeeded, but by 1979, after the Iranian Islamic Revolution occurred and its extremist consequences effected us with the 1979-81 Iranian hostage crisis, Soviet leadership was terrified of radical Islamic fundamentalism sprouting up in nearby Afghanistan, Brezhnev pleaded with the Afghan Communists to stop the social reforms insulting Afghan traditions otherwise an Iranian-like insurgency would break out.

Their puppet Afghan Communist allies said no. Soviet leadership suspected their leader might've been a secret American operative and tried to have him poisoned by lacing his Coke with cyanide capsule while he was eating dinner one night, the cyanide capsule's effectiveness was dulled by the acidic content in the Coke. So, eventually, after an intense amount of discussion, and a close Politburo vote(not all members were allowed to vote or even knew about the secret meeting until early 1980), the Soviets invaded Afghanistan to eliminate the corrosive, corrupt previous Afghan regime, Spetnaz operatives killed the former Afghan resident and his entire family in the Presidential Palace without losing suffering a single casualty.

The Soviets invaded Afghanistan partly because they didnt want radical Islamic fundamentalism spreading through its old Soviet Central Asia provinces, and Chechnya, which historically have, and still do, predominantly Muslim populations. So, no, we aren't responsible for lighting the fuse that caused over 40 years worth of civil wars, genocides, ethnic cleansing, foreign involvement, and bogged-down insurgencies, old tottering Soviet Union did that by allowing and permitting a corrupt, clueless, pro-Soviet regime to run roughshod in a country that's only really unifying factor is its religious, cultural traditions and making it worse by invading and getting bogged down in no-win war, "Soviet Union's Vietnam". If Iran was our forkup 42 years ago, then for historical reasons, Afghanistan was the USSR's biggest ME fork up.


The real cause of the rise of Islamic fundamentalism, if you really deeply examine the causal problems, it revolves around post-WWII decolonialization of former, expansive European empires in North Africa and ME(British and French), plus the Soviets using Arab pan-nationalism as a clever, useful ploy to woo client-states to its worldwide crusade. By the mid-1970's, there was a sense that mostly secular, singular military styled regimes in Egypt, Syria, Turkey, and Algeria werent going to be this huge all-encompassing banner or effective force to combat Western meddling or intrusion, so early Islamic fundamentalist groups like Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood started devising a newer, strict puritanical version of Islam, along with Saudi Wahhabism, be a more effective barrier and weapon against Western imperialism/neo-imperialism and corrupt, ineffective secular militaristic ME regimes.
 

Saintman2884

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Personally, I think it’s past time. The unvaccinated/non-maskers are holding us back (though I may argue that’s conservatism in general) for no reason other than an orange man who can’t even spell “science” decided it was “no big deal”. The selfishness of people who wouldn’t/won’t mask up is shameful. I’m still waiting on answer on exactly what right is being violated by “wear a mask”, and why it’s more important than my similar “right” to go to the grocery store without concern for my health (I’m on a slight immunosuppressant, and it’s for a respiratory issue)

That said, I understand the resistance to a mandate. The people who aren’t currently vaccinated aren‘t doing it unless they‘re forced (and still may not), and this is just going to dig them in more. But this isn’t the first vaccination that’s required, and it’s only an issue because certain people decided public health is a political issue to own the libs.
Here's an even bitter irony, the "fat, orange man" suggesting or who's continuing to not strenuously urge Americans to get vaccinated, actually got fully vaccinated himself, along with his wife, very quietly back in late January, along with many other prominent GOP congressman and Senators, their using it as a convenient political weapon while also slyly denying or attempting to deny their doing it simultaneously except until very recently, they began urging their followers to get vaccinated because quite a few of them were dying due to the Delta variant and those warm bodies can't be easily replaced when it comes time to voting in Trump-approved GOP candidates after their demographic is one of those hardest hit. He might not be able to spell "science", but Trump was certainly no fool.and more then painfully aware just how potentially deadly the emerging Covid-19 pandemic was going to be way back in his taped interviews with Bob Woodward in February 2020 and willfully lied to the American public because he didnt want to raise panic levels among ordinary Americans.
 

MT15

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Doesn’t it give a choice, though? Weekly Covid tests if unvaccinated? It’s not a great choice, but it is a choice. Agree with JRad, it’s past time. We’ve kowtowed to ignorance and conspiracy theories long enough. The disinformation from China, Russia and Iran, aided and abetted by some of the most immoral people on the planet at Fox, NewsMax, etc. is not going to stop. Just do it and move on.

I think this tweet is real, and it shows how cynical the people are who are actively campaigning against the vaccine. And how the people who believe their lies are being damaged.

 

MT15

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Federal employees must vaccinate. The OSHA part for employers with over 100 employees has the weekly testing option.
 

MT15

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I don’t think these lawsuits will work. Obviously, I’m not a lawyer, but from the little bit I’ve read this isn’t some sort of unique thing. The federal vaccine mandate seems to be certainly within his power.

The OSHA requirement for testing or vaccination doesn’t seem to me to be an overreach either. Honestly the testing should have been mandated by Trump early on. We wouldn’t have 600,000 dead Americans if he had done what he should have done and that’s just indisputable.

You would think any politician who is pro-business and wants to help the economy could see this. That so many are doing this LARP about this is concerning. They’ve completely lost the thread.
 

MT15

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Anecdotally, my employer mandated all employees be fully vaccinated by Sept. 1. We heard all summer people complaining - people saying they’d quit. We heard at various times that all the maintenance guys were going to quit, that most of housekeeping was going to walk out.

They recently said that out of some 2,500 employees (local hospital and clinics only - the entire organization is HUGE) only 20 left because of the vaccine mandate. 🤷‍♀️
 

SystemShock

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I wouldn't concede that Harris is right. The Islamic sphere lead the world in science, and math at one point. The guy who invented algebra had the name Muhammad. If the issue was inherently the religion this wouldn't have happened.
Sure, there used to be that the area between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers was known as "the cradle of civilization", because of their advances in science, philosophy, the arts, agriculture, mathematics etc. But then, an Imam codified what a "good Muslim" was supposed to be. declared working with numbers the work of the devil, and that was it for the cradle of civilization. And they have not bounced back ever since.

In fact, I would argue that Harris overall point is lazy, and absolves first world countries of any role they played in these countries becoming extremist.
I don't think Harris is absolving anyone of anything.

Iran, and Afghanistan were moderate Islamic countries in the 60's. What happened?
How do you define "moderate Islamic" ? Girls wear skits while stoning gays to death?

I mean just answer this question. Has America funded, and propped up any extremists country in the middle east that exports this form of religion to the surrounding area? I'll give you a hint the form of Islam is called Wahhabism. Also, 15 of the 19 9/11 hijackers were from this country.
Oh, geez, thank you for the hint. Can I buy a vowel now?

The U.S. has propped many types of regimes, in Asia, Europe, Africa, America... but the U.S. didn't create Islam or Islamic states.


Anyway, back to covid.
 
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Lapaz

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I don’t think these lawsuits will work. Obviously, I’m not a lawyer, but from the little bit I’ve read this isn’t some sort of unique thing. The federal vaccine mandate seems to be certainly within his power.

The OSHA requirement for testing or vaccination doesn’t seem to me to be an overreach either. Honestly the testing should have been mandated by Trump early on. We wouldn’t have 600,000 dead Americans if he had done what he should have done and that’s just indisputable.

You would think any politician who is pro-business and wants to help the economy could see this. That so many are doing this LARP about this is concerning. They’ve completely lost the thread.
I agree with the mandate, and I don't think it is too late, but there are new variants that are spreading, such as the mu variant, which are resistant to the vaccines. This mandate will help reduce our numbers, so I support it, but prepare for the backlash from the almost inevitably increasing number of breakthroughs that will happen with the new variants. New vaccines will be needed to combat the new variants, and those vaccines will take time to get FDA approvals. I suspect Biden won't be able to mandate them until they are approved, so this mandate is almost too late.
 

SaulGoodmanEsq

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At this point I'm not sure Biden cares much about political optics. I doubt he will be the nominee in 2024 and he probably doubts that himself, too.
 

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