All things political. Coronavirus Edition. (1 Viewer)

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Maxp

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I fear we are really going to be in a bad place due to the obvious cuts to the federal agencies that deal with infectious disease, but also the negative effect the Affordable Care act has had on non urban hospitals. Our front line defenses are ineffectual and our ability to treat the populous is probably at an all time low. Factor in the cost of healthcare and I can see our system crashing. What do you think about the politics of this virus?
 

samiam5211

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At this point I'm not sure Biden cares much about political optics. I doubt he will be the nominee in 2024 and he probably doubts that himself, too.
I don't think he doubts it. I think he knows there isn't any way he is running for reelection. I don't think he's interested in it.

That is a good thing generally, but he does need to care a little about the optics because of the mid-terms.
 

Optimus Prime

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Article saying Biden’s plan doesn’t go far enough
==================

…….But the administration can and must go much further. For starters, why didn’t Biden announce that he will mandate vaccinations for plane and train travel?

The federal government has authority over interstate travel, and it already uses this power to require that masks are worn in airports and on planes and trains. Requiring vaccinations for those eligible for them will make travel safer, but that’s not the primary reason for taking the step.

The Biden administration needs to make clear that there are consequences to remaining unvaccinated. If you want the privilege of traveling, you need to do your part and get vaccinated.

Similarly, the White House should urge businesses to implement “no vaccine, no service” rules. San Francisco and New York have been out front by requiring vaccines to enter indoor restaurants, bars, gyms and other venues.

The president should support these efforts by providing financial incentives to jurisdictions and businesses with such mandates and encouraging vaccinated Americans to preferentially frequent these establishments.


In addition, while I appreciate the call for teachers to be vaccinated, I wish that all children 12 and older would be required, as well. There are mandates for childhood immunizations in every state. The coronavirus vaccine should be no different.


For vaccine mandates to succeed, they must be accompanied by a reliable and secure method for verifying proof of vaccination. Israel has long used the government-issued Green Pass to prove immunity, and the European Union has introduced a digital covid-19 certificate across all 27 member nations, as well as Switzerland, Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein.

It’s shameful that all the United States can come up with is a paper CDC card. Verification of vaccination should be taken just as seriously as, say, going through a TSA checkpoint at the airport.

When asked for your ID, you can’t just produce an easily forged piece of paper. Neither should that be sufficient to prove that you’re immunized against a potentially deadly disease……..

 

Farb

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So, what is everyone's take on secession? To be honest, I am curious now.
 

MT15

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Okay, I really hope Farb and anyone else who is skeptical of the vaccine will read this blog post from a Florida doctor. He puts everything out there in simple terms with grace and compassion. I would like to send it to my family members who are in the same boat. Maybe I will do that, but I am afraid they will refuse to read it.

Honestly, this is really good.

 
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MT15

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Farb, you should consider taking the vaccine. It couldn’t hurt and it’s free. It may help give your immune system a boost. You‘ve gotten away twice without losing your sense of taste and smell, don’t let Covid get a third chance at your taste buds!
 

Dragon

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We just removed every single COVID-19 restrictions today.

Denmark is set to become the first nation in the European Union to drop all COVID-19 restrictions with vaccine passports being abolished on Friday.
Demark which has a population of 5.8 million people has come to the decision to abolish all restrictions after the nation vaccinated 74.3 per cent of adults with an average of 540 new cases recorded each day, according to Reuters.

Health minister Magnus Heunicke said Denmark had the epidemic “under control” and the relaxation of restrictions was possible due to “record high vaccination rates”.

“Therefore, on September 10, we can drop some of the special rules we have had to introduce in the fight against COVID-19,” Minister of Health Magnus Heunicke said.

“The government has promised not to hold on to the measures any longer than was necessary, and there we are now.

“But even though we are in a good place right now, we are not out of the epidemic.”


Things are fairly under controll right now but our government have shown again and again that they are quick to react if the situation changes.

One of the main reasons that we're at this point right now, is the fact that the vast majority of the population has embraced the vacine and the mask wearing - not as much by laws but by making it a social faux pas not to follow the recommendations.

Although the restrictions have been removed a lot of things have changed

* Most companies wont accept employees going to work sick. Most forbid it outright (since the employee still get his salary and the company gets reimbursed there is no economic consequences for either part when implementing this policy).

* More work from home days

* More varied workhours. Many companies allow employees to arrive very early or late in order to spread out the rush hour and the risk for exposure when travelling by train or metro.

* No physical handshakes

* Sanitizing your hands as the first thing you do when entering the office or when entering a store.
 

MT15

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I’m very happy for you, dragon. I wish we had more common sense in this country. But instead we have this:

 

wardorican

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At this point I'm not sure Biden cares much about political optics. I doubt he will be the nominee in 2024 and he probably doubts that himself, too.
Not sure about that.

Anyway, read this, and I think it puts it in a bit better perspective.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...8577bc-1243-11ec-9cb6-bf9351a25799_story.html

President Biden’s initial approach to the pandemic did not include widespread vaccine mandates, a policy that some advisers and public health officials wanted but that was viewed as a step too far.
Biden instead tried to persuade people hesitant to get a coronavirus vaccine, making reasoned arguments and emotional pleas to try to win them over while embracing requirements in limited circumstances.

His aides said the government’s role was to advocate for vaccinations, not mandate them, as they maintained hope that the vaccine skepticism stoked by misinformation on social media, conservative commentators and some Republican politicians would fade.

That hope was not realized.
On Thursday, Biden abandoned his initial strategy, instead embracing the growing frustration among the vaccinated with the country’s roughly 80 million unvaccinated citizens and announced a sweeping set of mandates, including compelling businesses with more than 100 workers to require vaccinations or weekly coronavirus testing.

It was an acknowledgment that his strategy was not working, with the virus continuing to rage in parts of the country, and a nod to how much it is hurting him politically, with his approval numbers sliding in recent weeks.

This last bit is a health expert's opinion.

But some of the country’s most prominent public health officials were discussing mandates with the administration, including Ezekiel J. Emanuel, a professor of medical ethics and health policy at the University of Pennsylvania who was on Biden’s covid team during the transition.
“No one likes to mandate things,” Emanuel said. “Given their druthers, why start a battle about freedom and all of that? But I think in the end, they recognized that voluntarily we’re not going to get there.”
Biden had been more eager to back companies that individually decided to enact mandates for employees. But this approach risked creating an “uneven playing field,” Emanuel said. For example, nurses who did not want to be vaccinated could simply quit their jobs with one health-care company and move to another one without the requirements.
Still, Biden did back one initial set of requirements, ordering federal workers to either get vaccinated or wear masks at work and withholding federal funds from nursing homes that refused to mandate vaccinations for employers.
The current mandates still might not go far enough, Emanuel said.
“You might say this is ‘Phase 2,’ ” he said, adding that an initial round of tougher vaccine incentives that came in late July marked the first round. “This is going to get you something, but we’re going to need a ‘Phase 3’ almost inevitably,” Emanuel said.
Additional steps, he said, could include requiring Americans to be vaccinated if they want to travel between states on airplanes or trains or using some kind of mechanism to require children 12 to 17 to be vaccinated.
 

wardorican

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Farb, you should consider taking the vaccine. It couldn’t hurt and it’s free. It may help give your immune system a boost. You‘ve gotten away twice without losing your sense of taste and smell, don’t let Covid get a third chance at your taste buds!
I think it's pretty well established that @Farb doesn't have any taste. ;) j.k.
 

Farb

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I have no problem with vax, but I know I have natural immunity and I am more than not in better shape as regards to immunity with the virus as you guys are that got the jab. So no, I see no reason to get the jab. None.
There are a lot of lawsuit from my people now, so I thing us naturals will win in the long run.
Also, telling me, I might be better off with the jab, compared to what? What I am now? There zero proof of that, and there is actually information against that. They don't know the effects of the vax on those that have natural immunity and still get the jab. Does anyone know the numbers of break through cases from us naturals that require a hospital visit? To me, it is odd that is not know or if it is, why is not released.

Yall want to know a trick on how to get people to take the jab stop trying to force people by bribe, fear porn, force or stigmatization. Most people natural reaction is to be skeptical and and skeptical people and do research and that research leads to the conclusion is that the medical experts contradict themselves and are not sure to begin with.
 

RobF

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Also, telling me, I might be better off with the jab, compared to what? What I am now? There zero proof of that, and there is actually information against that. They don't know the effects of the vax on those that have natural immunity and still get the jab.
I mentioned earlier that preprint paper you'd referred to did find that 'Individuals who were both previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the vaccine gained additional protection against the Delta variant.' Specific excerpt:

Examining previously infected individuals to those who were both previously infected and received a single dose of the vaccine, we found that the latter group had a significant 0.53-fold (95% CI, 0.3 to 0.92) (Table 4a) decreased risk for reinfection, as 20 had a positive RT-PCR test, compared to 37 in the previously infected and unvaccinated group. Symptomatic disease was present in 16 single dose vaccinees and in 23 of their unvaccinated counterparts. One COVID-19-related hospitalization occurred in the unvaccinated previously infected group. No COVID19-related mortality was recorded.​
So while it's a still emerging picture, particularly with regard to Delta (when you're talking about gathering data for people being initially infected, and reinfected, for both people who've been previously infected and haven't been vaccinated to contrast against people who've been previously infected and vaccinated, it takes time for that data to build up), there is evidence that you might be better off with the jab, yes.
 

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