All Things LGBTQ+ (2 Viewers)

[Farb]

Didn't really see a place for this so I thought I would start a thread about all things LGBTQ since this is a pretty hot topic in our culture right now

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/17/sup...y-that-refuses-to-work-with-lgbt-couples.html

• The Supreme Court on Thursday delivered a unanimous defeat to LGBT couples in a high-profile case over whether Philadelphia could refuse to contract with a Roman Catholic adoption agency that says its religious beliefs prevent it from working with same-sex foster parents.
• Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in an opinion for a majority of the court that Philadelphia violated the First Amendment by refusing to contract with Catholic Social Services once it learned that the organization would not certify same-sex couples for adoption.

I will admit, I was hopeful for this decision by the SCOTUS but I was surprised by the unanimous decision.

While I don't think there is anything wrong, per se, with same sex couples adopting and raising children (I actually think it is a good thing as it not an abortion) but I also did not want to see the state force a religious institution to bend to a societal norm.

 

[MT15]

I honestly don’t know what you’re trying to say, Farb.

My problem is that Abbott has decided to investigate parents of trans children for “child abuse”. One would think he would be so busy “stopping all the rapes” in Texas that he wouldn’t have time for this but here we are.

I don’t think Abbott should use his biases to bring the power of the state against families of trans children. There are enough children actually being abused, and states do a pretty poor job already of helping them, without clogging up the system with this religious based persecution.

If you think parents should have a say in how they raise their children, you should be against this power grab from Abbott.

 

[MT15]

Okay - I looked it up. This is a total non-issue:

No, young children cannot take hormones, change their sex

Misinformation about medical treatments for transgender patients has proliferated in recent weeks, as a spate of events

www.politifact.com

“Professional organizations such as the Endocrine Society recommend against puberty blockers for children who have not reached puberty, and recommend that patients be at least 16 years old before beginning hormone treatments for feminization or masculinization of the body. The last step in transitioning to another gender, gender reassignment surgery, is only available to those 18 and older in the United States.
The onset of puberty is the baseline for medical intervention. Puberty typically occurs between ages 10 and 14 for girls and 12 and 16 for boys.

Guidelines for the medical care of transgender patients, developed by organizations such as the Endocrine Society and the World Professional Association for Transgender Health, begin with counseling and psychological evaluation by a team of medical professionals before any physical interventions are considered.

If patients have begun to go through puberty, and they have "demonstrated a long-lasting and intense pattern of gender nonconformity or gender dysphoria," then treatments such as puberty blockers can be considered, according to the standards of care for transgender people by the World Professional Association for Transgender Health. Gender dysphoria refers to distress people may experience as a result of the discrepancy between their gender identity and the sex assigned to them at birth.”

So, no children are being surgically treated and puberty blockers are only undertaken after counseling and are doing nothing permanent. The medication can be stopped, and normal puberty will resume. They are designed to allow the young person time to make a final decision, which would normally take place after they reach 18 yo.

 

[MT15]

We should all note that the disinformation isn’t just random. Almost all of the disinformation that is swirling around this country comes from one area on the political spectrum. One of us should have just looked up to see if children were being medically treated before we went on for several posts talking as if it is actually happening. It’s just so disheartening, all in all.

 

[brandon]

I am just saying children's bodies should not be radically altered until they are old enough to understand what is it that they are doing.

I’m sure somewhere in the previous 70+ pages, I’ve already said this:

If a child thinks they might be trans and wants hormones, you give them the hormones.

If they change their mind, you take them off the hormones and their body picks up by producing its own hormones for the biological sex. No harm, no foul.

However, if you refuse to give them the hormones, their bodies will change in ways that are irreversible (bone structure, etc) and the person now permanently has features of the gender opposite their preference.

No one on the left is advocating for children to make permanent choices (surgery, etc). They’re advocating for giving the child a chance to make it to adulthood without permanent choices (i.e. puberty for the opposite their preferred gender) having already been made.

It’s your side that’s advocating that children be forced to make a decision, not ours.

 

[Farb]

Okay - I looked it up. This is a total non-issue:

No, young children cannot take hormones, change their sex

Misinformation about medical treatments for transgender patients has proliferated in recent weeks, as a spate of events

www.politifact.com

“Professional organizations such as the Endocrine Society recommend against puberty blockers for children who have not reached puberty, and recommend that patients be at least 16 years old before beginning hormone treatments for feminization or masculinization of the body. The last step in transitioning to another gender, gender reassignment surgery, is only available to those 18 and older in the United States.
The onset of puberty is the baseline for medical intervention. Puberty typically occurs between ages 10 and 14 for girls and 12 and 16 for boys.

Guidelines for the medical care of transgender patients, developed by organizations such as the Endocrine Society and the World Professional Association for Transgender Health, begin with counseling and psychological evaluation by a team of medical professionals before any physical interventions are considered.

If patients have begun to go through puberty, and they have "demonstrated a long-lasting and intense pattern of gender nonconformity or gender dysphoria," then treatments such as puberty blockers can be considered, according to the standards of care for transgender people by the World Professional Association for Transgender Health. Gender dysphoria refers to distress people may experience as a result of the discrepancy between their gender identity and the sex assigned to them at birth.”

So, no children are being surgically treated and puberty blockers are only undertaken after counseling and are doing nothing permanent. The medication can be stopped, and normal puberty will resume. They are designed to allow the young person time to make a final decision, which would normally take place after they reach 18 yo.

How 'young' is 'young'? Do you consider 12 to 17 to be too young to make those heavy decisions without parental consent?
Washington state democratic law makers don't think so. But yeah, all of this 'misinformation' is all on one side.

https://mynorthwest.com/3296653/ran...gender-reassignment-surgery-parental-consent/

https://lawfilesext.leg.wa.gov/bien...ed Legislature/5889-S.PL.pdf?q=20201113082521

 

[brandon]

How 'young' is 'young'? Do you consider 12 to 17 to be too young to make those heavy decisions without parental consent?

When does puberty happen?

Puberty has permanent effects. Hormone therapy doesn’t unless you take it forever and/or have surgery.

 

[MT15]

How 'young' is 'young'? Do you consider 12 to 17 to be too young to make those heavy decisions without parental consent?
Washington state democratic law makers don't think so. But yeah, all of this 'misinformation' is all on one side.

https://mynorthwest.com/3296653/ran...gender-reassignment-surgery-parental-consent/

https://lawfilesext.leg.wa.gov/biennium/2019-20/Pdf/Bills/Senate Passed Legislature/5889-S.PL.pdf?q=20201113082521

If you would read the article I linked, the US doesn’t do that type of surgery on anyone under the age of 18. Doctors may give what are called puberty blockers after counseling and consultations (plural). These are only given after the teen begins puberty. Their effects are completely reversible, if they stop taking them.

If the trans person wants to still continue, they can then take actual hormones, but only after the age of 16. Some of the effects of hormones may not reverse, if they change their mind. Surgery isn’t an option until the age of 18.

Your article is talking about insurance coverage, not parental consent to get the procedures. And is also talking about some minor things like hair removal or speech therapy. As noted in my article, US doctors will not perform gender changing surgery on minors with or without parental consent. Your guy is apparently trying to obscure the facts and if you read his article closely eventually he admits that people wouldn't be able to find a doctor in the US that would do the surgery.

 

[SystemShock]

I’m sure somewhere in the previous 70+ pages, I’ve already said this:

If a child thinks they might be trans and wants hormones, you give them the hormones.

If they think they might?

If they change their mind, you take them off the hormones and their body picks up by producing its own hormones for the biological sex. No harm, no foul.

Are you sure that there is no harm whatsoever in injecting hormones into ya child's body not naturally produced by their body through their formative years?

No one on the left is advocating for children to make permanent choices (surgery, etc).

Why not? Many surgeries can be reversed. They aren't permanent. May leave a little scar, but meh.

It’s your side that’s advocating that children be forced to make a decision, not ours.

My side? I don't have a side.

 

[brandon]

If they think they might?

Yes.

Are you sure that there is no harm whatsoever in injecting hormones into ya child's body not naturally produced by their body through their formative years?

Yes.

Why not? Many surgeries can be reversed. They aren't permanent. May leave a little scar, but meh.

Pills don’t leave scars.

My side? I don't have a side.

Yes you do.

 

[Farb]

If you would read the article I linked, the US doesn’t do that type of surgery on anyone under the age of 18. Doctors may give what are called puberty blockers after counseling and consultations (plural). These are only given after the teen begins puberty. Their effects are completely reversible, if they stop taking them.

If the trans person wants to still continue, they can then take actual hormones, but only after the age of 16. Some of the effects of hormones may not reverse, if they change their mind. Surgery isn’t an option until the age of 18.

Your article is talking about insurance coverage, not parental consent to get the procedures. And is also talking about some minor things like hair removal or speech therapy. As noted in my article, US doctors will not perform gender changing surgery on minors with or without parental consent. Your guy is apparently trying to obscure the facts and if you read his article closely eventually he admits that people wouldn't be able to find a doctor in the US that would do the surgery.

I linked the actual law, it might help if you read it.

But again, you say to take the state out of it, but yet you are encouraging the state to be a wall between parents and their kids, all for the sake of Money's predatory gender theory.

They are just kids, they will have time to correct all the unnatural things done to them, am I right?

 

[coldseat]

Some interesting, yet not surprising, trends in education regarding gay men. This is likely another reason for conservatives disdain of education and educational achievement at every level.

The gender gap in American higher education is now the largest it has ever been, and if current trends continue, two women will soon complete college for every one man. But there’s one group who have, for generations, defied this trend: gay men. Their achievement could hold the key to closing the gap for their straight peers, too.

In new research made possible by questions recently added to U.S. household surveys, I found that gay men achieve stunning success across every level of higher education. This accomplishment comes even as men’s overall college completion rates have fallen further behind women’s for every generation born since the 1960s.

I found, for example, that about 52 percent of gay men age 25 or older in America have a bachelor’s degree. For context, about 36 percent of U.S. adults 25 or older have a bachelor’s; this ranks the United States ninth in the world in college completion. If America’s gay men, however, formed their own country, it would be the world’s most highly educated by far.

Gay men’s academic advantages don’t end in undergrad, either. The group is significantly overrepresented among the United States’ most advanced degree holders. Compared with straight men, gay men are about 50 percent more likely to have earned an MD, JD or PhD.

And this pattern isn’t confined to White gay men. In every single racial and ethnic group I could measure, gay men outpace straight men in college completion by double digits.

Gay men’s strikingly high performance is already well established in high school. Using the first Department of Education study ever to assess student sexual orientation, I also found that, compared with straight boys from the same school, gay boys earned better grades in more advanced classes and reported more serious work habits and more academically oriented close friends.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/02/24/gay-men-academic-success-gender-gap-lessons/

 

[CoolBrees]

Jeebus.

Some of you make it sound like 10 year olds are going through reassignment surgery and you can make the decsion like keeping your kid home sick.

Or that parents are forcing their kids to take hormone blockers. Or that your doctor will even forking prescribe them without a long documented history. By well documented history I mean by actual doctors, therapists, etc.

Why would you think a parent would be so flippant with their child’s health? It’s weird honestly.

 

[bird]

Jeebus.

Some of you make it sound like 10 year olds are going through reassignment surgery and you can make the decsion like keeping your kid home sick.

Or that parents are forcing their kids to take hormone blockers. Or that your doctor will even forking prescribe them without a long documented history. By well documented history I mean by actual doctors, therapists, etc.

Why would you think a parent would be so flippant with their child’s health? It’s weird honestly.

Of course it is weird. It has to do with sex. Humans are psychotic about sex.

 

[SystemShock]

Pills don’t leave scars.

Are you sure about that?

Yes you do.

And which side is that?

 

[SFIDC3]

We should all note that the disinformation isn’t just random. Almost all of the disinformation that is swirling around this country comes from one area on the political spectrum. One of us should have just looked up to see if children were being medically treated before we went on for several posts talking as if it is actually happening. It’s just so disheartening, all in all.

I'm hoping one day a good portion of those folks move to Russia....they would fit in perfectly there....we could swap them for the Russians that are protesting, they fit in better here....

 

[Farb]

I'm hoping one day a good portion of those folks move to Russia....they would fit in perfectly there....we could swap them for the Russians that are protesting, they fit in better here....

That sounds a lot like Russian propaganda.

 

[SFIDC3]

That sounds a lot like Russian propaganda.

Your party is the biggest and most willing consumer of Russian propaganda.....traitorous is not too strong a word TBH....

 

[Farb]

Your party is the biggest and most willing consumer of Russian propaganda.....traitorous is not too strong a word TBH....

That still sounds a lot like the great replacement theory. What about the CCP propaganda? Do you think your party is the most willing consumer of that?