All Things LGBTQ+ (2 Viewers)

[Farb]

Didn't really see a place for this so I thought I would start a thread about all things LGBTQ since this is a pretty hot topic in our culture right now

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/17/sup...y-that-refuses-to-work-with-lgbt-couples.html

• The Supreme Court on Thursday delivered a unanimous defeat to LGBT couples in a high-profile case over whether Philadelphia could refuse to contract with a Roman Catholic adoption agency that says its religious beliefs prevent it from working with same-sex foster parents.
• Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in an opinion for a majority of the court that Philadelphia violated the First Amendment by refusing to contract with Catholic Social Services once it learned that the organization would not certify same-sex couples for adoption.

I will admit, I was hopeful for this decision by the SCOTUS but I was surprised by the unanimous decision.

While I don't think there is anything wrong, per se, with same sex couples adopting and raising children (I actually think it is a good thing as it not an abortion) but I also did not want to see the state force a religious institution to bend to a societal norm.

 

[SaulGoodmanEsq]

I guess with your media 'sources' telling you the world is going to end due to climate change, republicans, russia, covid, Trump, Putin, closing post offices, de-regulating the internet, the end of democracy, white supremacy, fascists dictators, evangelicals et al, I understand why you think that. I can promise you it is not as 'world ending' as they want you to believe in order to vote for them.

Er... any rational person can glean that by simply watching Fox News or reading Ben Shapiro for about thirty minutes. You hardly need CNN or [insert liberal media of your choice] telling you what to think. I couldn't tell you the last time I watched CNN... probably back when Robert Novak was on Crossfire.

My opinion of the right is not based on what the left tells me to think of the right. It's based on the words and actions of the right put out over their own media outlets.

 

[SystemShock]

Should their parents make these decisions, or the state?

Would you be ok with parents or the State deciding the kid must stay with the kid's birth gender?

 

[MT15]

Would you be ok with parents or the State deciding the kid must stay with the kid's birth gender?

I don’t want the government involved in private medical matters. Period.

 

[MT15]

 

[SystemShock]

I don’t want the government involved in private medical matters. Period.

Fine, we take the government out... how young is old enough to know that one truly wants to alter one's body to that extreme? What happens if parents decide that their child must live their lives based on the sex organ they were born with; is that abuse?

 

[H B Lowrey]

Fine, we take the government out... how young is old enough to know that one truly wants to alter one's body to that extreme? What happens if parents decide that their child must live their lives based on the sex organ they were born with; is that abuse?

If we gaf about child abuse the legal system would be running down Epstein and Maxwell's aristocratic johns whom the legal system actually aided and abetted for decades.

 

[SystemShock]

If we gaf about child abuse the legal system would be running down Epstein and Maxwell's aristocratic johns whom the legal system actually aided and abetted for decades.

You go ahead and gaf about child abuse; I have not labeled anything as child abuse.

 

[MT15]

Fine, we take the government out... how young is old enough to know that one truly wants to alter one's body to that extreme? What happens if parents decide that their child must live their lives based on the sex organ they were born with; is that abuse?

I’m not labeling anything child abuse - Abbott is. My suspicion is that you agree with him on this matter.

 

[coldseat]

Fine, we take the government out... how young is old enough to know that one truly wants to alter one's body to that extreme? What happens if parents decide that their child must live their lives based on the sex organ they were born with; is that abuse?

No. Until children are adults, parents have the right/obligation to make those choices with/for their children. It will suck if the child of the parents are extremely religious and not willing to have open discussion with their child regarding their gender identity (and it will likely cause a lot of turmoil in that child's life), but as a society we entrust parents to make those decisions for children to maintain order. If the child feels he is of sufficient capacity to make that adult decision for themselves, then they can go through the process of getting legally emancipated.

What I think we should all agree on is that the government is in no position to make that choice/decision for the parent/child. Especially not the Christian-ethno nationalist state government of Texas and its leader Greg Abbot.

 

[SystemShock]

No. Until children are adults, parents have the right/obligation to make those choices with/for their children. It will suck if the child of the parents are extremely religious and not willing to have open discussion with their child regarding their gender identity (and it will likely cause a lot of turmoil in that child's life), but as a society we entrust parents to make those decisions for children to maintain order. If the child feels he is of sufficient capacity to make that adult decision for themselves, then they can go through the process of getting legally emancipated.

What I think we should all agree on is that the government is in no position to make that choice/decision for the parent/child. Especially not the Christian-ethno nationalist state government of Texas and its leader Greg Abbot.

It will also suck if the parents of the child are too eager to accept a kid's decision to radically alter their body.

It is not necessarily so that parents have to be extremely religious to not be willing to discuss with their child their gender identity.

And again, we are talking about children, discussing life altering changes in their bodies.

 

[MT15]

SS: Yes - it will suck if parents make the wrong decision in either direction. But as coldseat said it much better than I did, we trust parents to make these decisions for their children. It’s a very bad precedent for the government to step in.

Also: exactly how many children are having anything permanent done? Do we even know? I suspect it is very few.

 

[coldseat]

It will also suck if the parents of the child are too eager to accept a kid's decision to radically alter their body.

It is not necessarily so that parents have to be extremely religious to not be willing to discuss with their child their gender identity.

And again, we are talking about children, discussing life altering changes in their bodies.

So what's your solution?

 

[SystemShock]

I’m not labeling anything child abuse - Abbott is. My suspicion is that you agree with him on this matter.

Not that nuance matters anymore, I don't agree with Abbott, but I do think that some have become way too eager to accept transgenderism that they will entertain a child's desire to radically alter their bodies without much thought.

 

[Taurus]

Not that nuance matters anymore, I don't agree with Abbott, but I do think that some have become way too eager to accept transgenderism that they will entertain a child's desire to radically alter their bodies without much thought.

Really? Do you see this happening on a lark?

"Yeah mom, I know I said I wanted to do laser tag today, but I think I'll just get gender reassignment surgery instead."
"Ok, dear. I can drop you off at noon and pick you up at six. Remember to bring a towel!"

 

[SystemShock]

So what's your solution?

I am just saying children's bodies should not be radically altered until they are old enough to understand what is it that they are doing.

 

[SystemShock]

Really? Do you see this happening on a lark?

"Yeah mom, I know I said I wanted to do laser tag today, but I think I'll just get gender reassignment surgery instead."
"Ok, dear. I can drop you off at noon and pick you up at six. Remember to bring a towel!"

Again, not that nuance matters...

 

[coldseat]

I am just saying children's bodies should not be radically altered until they are old enough to understand what is it that they are doing.

I generally agree with you, but much like abortion, I don't think people are entering into those decisions flippantly. Even the most progressives parents want to make sure their children are protected and that their well being is paramount. That is, in fact, why some parents are supporting their children in seeking gender reassignment surgery. And to be fair, I have no idea what those numbers are. If I had to guess, I would think very few parents of transgender children are willing to allow their child to undergo gender reassignment surgery.

I also don't have a problem with the state enacting regulations that require parents/children undergo an appropriate psychological evaluation to confirm that these decisions aren't being made flippantly and that both the parent and child understand all that is involved and are in a good emotional state to do so. Where I do draw the line is investigating this a child abuse, which is what Abbot is doing.

 

[Farb]

Is public school schools/teachers/staff in fact the 'government' or 'state'?

I think everyone is in agreement that that the state/school/teachers should yield to the parents (well, most anyway, there are some that argue that the state has more right to your kids than the parents, since they belong to 'everyone'). If that is so, why is there a push to have teachers as a bulwark between the student and the parent in regards to Money's gender theory?