All Things LGBTQ+ (5 Viewers)

[Farb]

Didn't really see a place for this so I thought I would start a thread about all things LGBTQ since this is a pretty hot topic in our culture right now

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/17/sup...y-that-refuses-to-work-with-lgbt-couples.html

• The Supreme Court on Thursday delivered a unanimous defeat to LGBT couples in a high-profile case over whether Philadelphia could refuse to contract with a Roman Catholic adoption agency that says its religious beliefs prevent it from working with same-sex foster parents.
• Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in an opinion for a majority of the court that Philadelphia violated the First Amendment by refusing to contract with Catholic Social Services once it learned that the organization would not certify same-sex couples for adoption.

I will admit, I was hopeful for this decision by the SCOTUS but I was surprised by the unanimous decision.

While I don't think there is anything wrong, per se, with same sex couples adopting and raising children (I actually think it is a good thing as it not an abortion) but I also did not want to see the state force a religious institution to bend to a societal norm.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

I have discuss this issue with my wife. I believe I am 100% certain I am a man and I am also 100% certain I am heterosexual. There is nothing of greater beauty in the universe than a woman.

I suspect there is a spectrum and not all people fall into a male female/male or homosexual/heterosexual side. However, the majority seems to align along their biology.

There is a difference between belief and knowledge. Belief can be had without evidence. I am asking about knowledge. Do you know for a fact that you are a cishet male?

 

[Paul]

There is a difference between belief and knowledge. Belief can be had without evidence. I am asking about knowledge. Do you know for a fact that you are a cishet male?

As I told you before more than once. I follow Socrates suggestion of "I only know I know nothing".

As far as I can tell the science is correct chromosomes determine sex. The presence of the Y chromosome means male and the absence of the Y chromosome means female. There is 100% certainty about this as far as I can tell.

Gender tends to align with sex in the overwhelming majority of humans. As always there are exceptions such as the transgender people. Most normal people have a gender that aligns itself with the sex and chromosomes.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

As I told you before more than once. I follow Socrates suggestion of "I only know I know nothing".

As far as I can tell the science is correct chromosomes determine sex. The presence of the Y chromosome means male and the absence of the Y chromosome means female. There is 100% certainty about this as far as I can tell.

Gender tends to align with sex in the overwhelming majority of humans. As always there are exceptions such as the transgender people. Most normal people have a gender that aligns itself with the sex and chromosomes.

Are you saying that you don't know for certain how you identify or what your sexual orientation is?

 

[Paul]

Are you saying that you don't know for certain how you identify or what your sexual orientation is?

A 100% means a 100% CM

 

[cuddlemonkey]

A 100% means a 100% CM

You said 100% in regards to sex. I asked about your gender identity. Those are two different things.

 

[Farb]

If only it where that simple. That's not something that can happen in reality for a whole host of reasons no matter how much you desire it (or no matter how many fantasies right wing media puts in your head). All of us liberals, that you hate, are here to stay. We vote and we have a say in the future of this country. You have to deal with us, just like we have to deal with you. We better start finding a way. Actually caring about things that mattered would be a place to start.

I would not call your tribe liberals. I was a liberal actually, have been for most of my life. I know certain posters on here will lose their mind on this because everyone has to fit and admit they fit into these neat little intersectional boxes and it blows their dogma if it doesn't but it is true. Now bear with me while I try and correct you and put you in the boxes I believe in .
Alt left and liberal share some similar beliefs but I think the woke liberals (alt-left) are starting to find opposition to the classic democrat/liberal much like alt-right is not supported by conservatives but still share some basic ideology. Mush like Islam and extremists.
The fact is that alt-left and conservatives/liberals disagree on very basic core values. The main being the role of government in a citizens life. I am not sure if those are reconcilable. I don't think they are.

From 1-19 on that list has a more liberal government polices than the US. I don't know what alt-left ideology is, but I'd take single-payer healthcare any day over what we have.

I have no problem discussing single payer healthcare if it is done honestly. I know several people who live in both Europe and Canada and they feel differently than you do about the single payer system and some feel extremely different. Especially those needing a surgery in quick time. They actually came to the US to get the procedure done saving themselves about 4 months of pain.
It is also hard to have a conversation when the conversation starts with "people are going to die" which oddly enough is the go to version of any alt-left argument. (head count on citizens deaths caused by government in non war time- Socialism/communism and not even close).

Everything else was me venting so thanks for the pat on the head. Much appreciated as I do crave human contact once in a while.

 

[Farb]

They did remove him from that school. They called the police and it was being investigated. They allowed him to attend a different school, which they admitted now was a mistake. But in a climate of “innocent until proven guilty” there’s an argument to be made about punished him before a charge is proven.


That was stating the facts of the case. I also said I tend to believe her story and that she is telling the truth. But you cannot just judge the case without an investigation and during that investigation the accused has some rights as well.

You are making the assumption that he was wearing the skirt to gain access to the bathroom, when the bathroom policy didn’t even exist at that time. They were not following that policy then. That just doesn’t make sense.


Once again you are assuming ideology played a role, but we see no evidence of that being the case. They already said they are going back to look at their policies and probably wouldn’t have allowed the accused rapist to transfer to another school if they had it to do over again.

When were parents actually lied to? The question and answer that I think you are talking about has a normal explanation, and the school board member who asked the question said she understood why the superintendent misunderstood and was satisfied with his explanation.


Where did you read that he self-identifies as female? I did note that if he says he is trans, then we need to take him at his word. But that wearing a skirt alone isn’t proof of that.

I said what I did because my daughter went to high school with a boy who wore long skirts to class every day. It didn’t have anything to do with being “trans” according to her, but it was attention-seeking. He never really attempted to look like a woman, he just enjoyed being different. He also wore dreds as a white guy, it was a whole “look”.

People who are actually trans want to “pass” as their identified gender, from my admittedly limited understanding. If you are dressed as a woman and want to look like a woman, you should not be forced to go into the men’s room. That would be humiliating. Also, if you are dressed as a man and look like a man, it would be embarrassing to have to use the women’s restroom. In either case they will be going into a stall, I’m sure you realize that. And nobody will be the wiser. It’s stupid and cruel to make them go where they will stick out like a sore thumb and call more attention to themselves and possibly even invite someone to call security or beat them up.

As far as your last part, I will try to take your point to heart. But you can also help by quitting your strident language - the father wasn’t arrested for being a domestic terrorist, as I am sure you are well aware. That kind of inflammatory drivel doesn’t make your point, and serves no one.

As for main stream media not covering it, it really isn’t a national news kind of story. Or it wasn’t until your crappy sources went in and served up a slanted version trying to ascribe motives to the people in school administration and the school board. Your crappy sources are 100% using this crime to advance their ideology. Which is apparently fine with you, but enrages you when you think people are advancing ideologies you don’t like. Physician, heal thyself.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/loudoun-county-school-board-superintendent-resign-trans-policy

"Even so, he accused Ziegler of withholding information in order to protect the controversial pro-transgender policy 8040.

"I believe no updates were given because the superintendent was working to aggressively pass a policy that would have allowed unrestricted access of biological males to female restrooms," Beatty wrote. "He didn’t provide information because if it came out that there was an assault in the bathroom, the transgender policy wouldn’t have passed."

The board member noted that he did not get "a full picture on what happened" until "just a few weeks ago."

"I demanded a full investigation," Beatty noted. "And now our superintendent must resign immediately. Withholding information for political gain is unacceptable and disqualifying.""

My 'stretch' on the board keeping it under wraps on purpose in order to pass this Gender inclusion policy is also the thoughts of at least one board member.

I guess in order to make a wonderful new LGTGBQ agenda in schools, a few kids being sexually assaulted is a kin to breaking a few eggs to a make an omelets. Ideology at all costs. What is horrible, it is not like this is the only school board doing this. There are many many more and they are starting to be reported on by people actually trying to do journalism and not run propaganda for the alt-left.

 

[Paul]

You said 100% in regards to sex. I asked about your gender identity. Those are two different things.

I am 100% sure of my gender identity too.

As I said before, the overwhelming majority of people have the gender that aligns with their sex and biology. There are exceptions to the rule, nature is not perfect .

 

[coldseat]

I would not call your tribe liberals. I was a liberal actually, have been for most of my life. I know certain posters on here will lose their mind on this because everyone has to fit and admit they fit into these neat little intersectional boxes and it blows their dogma if it doesn't but it is true. Now bear with me while I try and correct you and put you in the boxes I believe in .
Alt left and liberal share some similar beliefs but I think the woke liberals (alt-left) are starting to find opposition to the classic democrat/liberal much like alt-right is not supported by conservatives but still share some basic ideology. Mush like Islam and extremists.
The fact is that alt-left and conservatives/liberals disagree on very basic core values. The main being the role of government in a citizens life. I am not sure if those are reconcilable. I don't think they are.


I have no problem discussing single payer healthcare if it is done honestly. I know several people who live in both Europe and Canada and they feel differently than you do about the single payer system and some feel extremely different. Especially those needing a surgery in quick time. They actually came to the US to get the procedure done saving themselves about 4 months of pain.
It is also hard to have a conversation when the conversation starts with "people are going to die" which oddly enough is the go to version of any alt-left argument. (head count on citizens deaths caused by government in non war time- Socialism/communism and not even close).

Everything else was me venting so thanks for the pat on the head. Much appreciated as I do crave human contact once in a while.

I really don't care what you call me or think about what tribe I'm in, it doesn't change my point that we're here to stay and vote (unless you're plans include mass genocide). The US is still not splitting up the way your dream scenario plays out. If we do end up splitting up, it will be through all out civil war. And I doubt it will be splitting up as much as one side conquering the other (just like the last civil war). Your side may win that fight this time, but what you will have left of a nation will be a far cry from anything you think will be better. And we will undoubtedly be ruled by an alt-right, totalitarian government. You should think long and hard before wanting to go down that road.

I did get a chuckle out of you being a liberal though.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

I am 100% sure of my gender identity too.

As I said before, the overwhelming majority of people have the gender that aligns with their sex and biology. There are exceptions to the rule, nature is not perfect .

If you are 100% sure, why do you say that trans people only "think" (see quote below) they belong to the opposite gender (which is the correct word in this instance)? Is it possible for someone that is trans to know their gender for certain 100%?

I think people that think they belong to the opposite sex or something else are OK, God bless them. When I was in High School I had a girl friend who believed she was a vampire. I went along with it. As long as no one gets hurt it is fine.

 

[Farb]

I really don't care what you call me or think about what tribe I'm in, it doesn't change my point that we're here to stay and vote (unless you're plans include mass genocide). The US is still not splitting up the way your dream scenario plays out. If we do end up splitting up, it will be through all out civil war. And I doubt it will be splitting up as much as one side conquering the other (just like the last civil war). Your side may win that fight this time, but what you will have left of a nation will be a far cry from anything you think will be better. And we will undoubtedly be ruled by an alt-right, totalitarian government. You should think long and hard before wanting to go down that road.

I did get a chuckle out of you being a liberal though.

I don't see a shooting war. To say we are not in a cold civil war right now is just lazy and foolish our leaders were very good at crafting it so they can secure votes and keep power. We are just stupid enough to follow them. Too late now.

I also wish this country to stay together. I do love the USA but at some point, you have to love your family, your God and yourself more.

If you lived in a neighborhood you loved and then slowly more Trumpers (imagine pick up trucks with Trump flags, Trump flags in the yard, Trump block parties every other weekend, kids dressing as Trump for halloween, Trump cookies given out every holiday season) and then slowly your old neighbors started moving out of the neighborhood because of the Toby Keith songs night and day, would you look to move too? I think you would, I think anyone would if they had the means.

 

[Paul]

If you are 100% sure, why do you say that trans people only "think" (see quote below) they belong to the opposite gender (which is the correct word in this instance)? Is it possible for someone that is trans to know their gender for certain 100%?

The certainty is much greater when the gender matches the sex.
When the sex and gender are incongruent there is mental anguish (rightfully so) and the certainty can be shaky. That is why you see people that change their minds after gender re-assignment. That is why extensive psychological evaluation is needed.

Sometimes teens are confused and may think they are transgender when in reality they are simply gay or lesbian. There is major stress when the gender does not match the sex; it is a conflict. They deserve compassion and respect.

 

[Farb]

If you are 100% sure, why do you say that trans people only "think" (see quote below) they belong to the opposite gender (which is the correct word in this instance)? Is it possible for someone that is trans to know their gender for certain 100%?

Gender Dysphoria

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dysphoria/symptoms-causes/syc-20475255

Symptoms​

Gender dysphoria might cause adolescents and adults to experience:

• A marked difference between your inner gender identity and assigned gender lasting at least six months, as shown by at least two of the following:
  
  • A marked difference between your inner gender identity and primary and/or secondary sex characteristics, or anticipated secondary sex characteristics in young adolescents
  • A strong desire to be rid of primary and/or secondary sex characteristics because of a marked difference with your inner gender identity, or a desire to prevent the development of anticipated secondary sex characteristics in young adolescents
  • A strong desire for the primary and/or secondary sex characteristics of the other gender
  • A strong desire to be of the other gender or an alternate gender different from assigned gender
  • A strong desire to be treated as the other gender or an alternate gender different from assigned gender
  • A strong conviction that you have typical feelings and reactions of the other gender or an alternate gender different from assigned gender
• Significant distress or impairment in social, occupational or other areas of functioning

Granted, these and the definition has change very very recently to be more 'inclusive'.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

The certainty is much greater when the gender matches the sex.
When the sex and gender are incongruent there is mental anguish (rightfully so) and the certainty can be shaky. That is why you see people that change their minds after gender re-assignment. That is why extensive psychological evaluation is needed.

Sometimes teens are confused and may think they are transgender when in reality they are simply gay or lesbian. There is major stress when the gender does not match the sex; it is a conflict. They deserve compassion and respect.

They deserve compassion and respect, yet you fail to show it. Claiming that you know for certain but that they don't is disrepectful. You said you would misgender your own children, with is horrifying.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Gender Dysphoria

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dysphoria/symptoms-causes/syc-20475255

Symptoms​

Gender dysphoria might cause adolescents and adults to experience:

• A marked difference between your inner gender identity and assigned gender lasting at least six months, as shown by at least two of the following:
  
  • A marked difference between your inner gender identity and primary and/or secondary sex characteristics, or anticipated secondary sex characteristics in young adolescents
  • A strong desire to be rid of primary and/or secondary sex characteristics because of a marked difference with your inner gender identity, or a desire to prevent the development of anticipated secondary sex characteristics in young adolescents
  • A strong desire for the primary and/or secondary sex characteristics of the other gender
  • A strong desire to be of the other gender or an alternate gender different from assigned gender
  • A strong desire to be treated as the other gender or an alternate gender different from assigned gender
  • A strong conviction that you have typical feelings and reactions of the other gender or an alternate gender different from assigned gender
• Significant distress or impairment in social, occupational or other areas of functioning

Granted, these and the definition has change very very recently to be more 'inclusive'.

Gender dysphoria isn't confusion or a lack of knowing who you are. It's the condition of your outward self not matching the identity of who you know yourself to be.

 

[Paul]

They deserve compassion and respect, yet you fail to show it. Claiming that you know for certain but that they don't is disrepectful. You said you would misgender your own children, with is horrifying.

I describe reality as it is.

 

[insidejob]

I describe reality as it is.

No, you describe it as you perceive it.

 

[Farb]

They deserve compassion and respect, yet you fail to show it. Claiming that you know for certain but that they don't is disrepectful. You said you would misgender your own children, with is horrifying.

I agree, they do deserve compassion and respect but are these people so fragile that a pronoun misuse reaches the level of horrifying? If they are, is that really societies problem or the person that gets offended (or worse yet, those that get offended for them)?
Do we deserve compassion and respect when using a language that has used the same pronouns since time and memorial? It seems we don't. It seems compassion and respect only go one way.