All Things LGBTQ+ (2 Viewers)

[Farb]

Didn't really see a place for this so I thought I would start a thread about all things LGBTQ since this is a pretty hot topic in our culture right now

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/17/sup...y-that-refuses-to-work-with-lgbt-couples.html

• The Supreme Court on Thursday delivered a unanimous defeat to LGBT couples in a high-profile case over whether Philadelphia could refuse to contract with a Roman Catholic adoption agency that says its religious beliefs prevent it from working with same-sex foster parents.
• Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in an opinion for a majority of the court that Philadelphia violated the First Amendment by refusing to contract with Catholic Social Services once it learned that the organization would not certify same-sex couples for adoption.

I will admit, I was hopeful for this decision by the SCOTUS but I was surprised by the unanimous decision.

While I don't think there is anything wrong, per se, with same sex couples adopting and raising children (I actually think it is a good thing as it not an abortion) but I also did not want to see the state force a religious institution to bend to a societal norm.

 

[Farb]

This is what I was talking about earlier. Rape and taking those pictures are both illegal. Literally no-one is asking for that to change. Being able to go into a bathroom doesn't change that. You can't illegally take pictures like that regardless of whether you're permitted to be in the bathroom you're in.

So why do you seem to think that access to a public bathroom somehow allows those? How would you think not being permitted to access a bathroom would prevent them? Why would you think someone who's willing to break the laws against rape would also be someone who isn't going to infringe the rules about which bathroom they're allowed to go in?

It's just bizarre.

Also you did the 'checks notes' thing wrong.

Well, poop. I tried. I will keep trying.

Same argument I would use for firearms but one is expressly written in our founding documents and one is trying to become law. I laid out my thoughts on how and why this may lead to more cases of pervs with kids in restrooms.

 

[brandon]

When 2 young girls are raped in female bathrooms in Va and this idiot takes pictures of 8 to 12 year old in the girl bathrooms, I wouldn't call it 'hysteria' but I know you have too.
They would rather protect predators as a bi product of protecting the sanctified holy class than actually protect the young (unless they identify as something else).
If it is not true, then why is the left still pushing for it? When someone shows you what they are...(check notes)...believe them.

I have wanted to use the 'check notes' things for a while, that and the lefty cliché 'say it louder for those in the back', always makes me chuckle.

And how would a bathroom law against transgender people prevent a pedophile disguising himself as a woman?

 

[Paul]

There are many acceptable sexual deviations but pedophilia is simply unacceptable. Pedophiles tend to find ways to get close to children, I have to agree with Brandon that it is impossible to legislate against this.

 

[MT15]

This predator isn’t known to be anything but a pedophile. No bathroom law would have stopped him. What bathroom laws will do, however, is punish innocent people who have never been and will never be pedophiles.

This is far from new, and these sorts of behaviors are almost never committed by anyone living an alternate gender lifestyle.

You have just made up this angle that some people, presumably including me and anyone else who doesn’t agree with you about punishing people just for who they are, don’t care about children. Frankly, I find that insulting. There is almost literally nobody who doesn’t want to protect children from sexual predators. With the exception of some church organizations and the Boy Scouts, which is a whole other story.

I know you condemn that behavior, but just look at the numbers and tell me which one is the more serious issue? You sure seem focused on individuals you don’t like and don’t understand way more than people who have abused some sort of system of trust to sexually assault children.

Statistics show that children are far more likely to be sexually abused by someone they know and trust than a random stranger, and especially a random stranger in a bathroom.

I’d love to see the numbers on the number of women abusers versus men who abuse, please do tell us the numbers.

 

[MT15]

Nevermind, Farb, I was curious so I looked it up:

• Out of the sexual abuse cases reported to CPS in 2013, 47,000 men and 5,000 women were the alleged perpetrators.6
• In 88% of the sexual abuse claims that CPS substantiates or finds supporting evidence of, the perpetrator is male. In 9% of cases they are female, and 3% are unknown.6

The above came from the RAINN website, and here is their citation:

6. United States Department of Health and Human Services, Administration for Children and Families, Administration on Children, Youth and Families, Children’s Bureau. Child Maltreatment Survey. Exhibit 5-2 Selected Maltreatment Types by Perpetrator’s Sex. Page 65. (2013).

This comes from the YWCA website:

96 percent of people who sexually abuse children are male, 76 percent are married menix, and 76.8 percent of people who sexually abuse children are adultsx.

Here are their sources:

ix The Abel and Harlow Child Molestation Prevention Study and the 1999 U.S. Census Statistical Abstract
x Statistics About Sexual Violence. (2015). National Sexual Violence Resource Center.

 

[Farb]

This predator isn’t known to be anything but a pedophile. No bathroom law would have stopped him. What bathroom laws will do, however, is punish innocent people who have never been and will never be pedophiles.

This is far from new, and these sorts of behaviors are almost never committed by anyone living an alternate gender lifestyle.

You have just made up this angle that some people, presumably including me and anyone else who doesn’t agree with you about punishing people just for who they are, don’t care about children. Frankly, I find that insulting. There is almost literally nobody who doesn’t want to protect children from sexual predators. With the exception of some church organizations and the Boy Scouts, which is a whole other story.

I know you condemn that behavior, but just look at the numbers and tell me which one is the more serious issue? You sure seem focused on individuals you don’t like and don’t understand way more than people who have abused some sort of system of trust to sexually assault children.

Statistics show that children are far more likely to be sexually abused by someone they know and trust than a random stranger, and especially a random stranger in a bathroom.

I’d love to see the numbers on the number of women abusers versus men who abuse, please do tell us the numbers.

So we don't live in a rape culture? I was told we live in a rape culture? I get confused.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...record-rape-reported-school-board-day-of.html

Yep, just 2 girls raped by the same predator because the alt-left school board could not have that come out before they voted on the trans bathroom in their district.
This is what they are saying: 'Girls can fend for themselves, we must protect the sanctified victim classes' feelings at all costs.'

I think I am squarely on the side the girls on this. As for how I think a rape is part of the problem of this trans issue has been laid out before and I have not changed my stance one iota so I don't care to retype it all again.

 

[Paul]

So we don't live in a rape culture? I was told we live in a rape culture? I get confused.

That is a good point.
Feminism has contradictions. They assume a man flirting with a woman is attempted rape. However, sharing a bathroom with guys is no big deal.
They are for the liberation of women. However, look the other way regarding the oppression of Muslim women. They do the latter because they do not want to be seen as Islamophobes.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

That is a good point.
Feminism has contradictions. They assume a man flirting with a woman is attempted rape. However, sharing a bathroom with guys is no big deal.
They are for the liberation of women. However, look the other way regarding the oppression of Muslim women. They do the latter because they do not want to be seen as Islamophobes.

Strawman! Whataboutism! Too many fallacies!

 

[zztop]

I will play whataboutism with you....
Am I not against pedophile priest and the bishops and church members that cover for them? I am all for the death penalty for all catholic priests that are guilty of pedophilia and life sentences for all church members that helped shuffle them around to avoid prosecution. I have no sympathy, despite whatever faith they claim to follow, none what so ever.
I also think pedophilia should be a death penalty for anyone, that loon taking pictures included.
Now if you want to talk about an over abundance of adults taking sexual advantage of children, we might want to look at school teachers, mainly female and the school boards attempts to cover them up.

it wasn't really about whataboutism, it was more like it seemed very odd you were directing your ire to one and only one specific group of people. A group that, comparatively represents a very low in % of cases of such as these. Like if you were against these awful acts, you should be against all people that do this, vs selectively picking one group. It was just very odd how you seemed to be very upset about one very small group while ignoring the larger group(s) that prey on (vastly more) people. What you wrote above now says you are against all, but originally it did not seem that way.

 

[MT15]

So we don't live in a rape culture? I was told we live in a rape culture? I get confused.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...record-rape-reported-school-board-day-of.html

Yep, just 2 girls raped by the same predator because the alt-left school board could not have that come out before they voted on the trans bathroom in their district.
This is what they are saying: 'Girls can fend for themselves, we must protect the sanctified victim classes' feelings at all costs.'

I think I am squarely on the side the girls on this. As for how I think a rape is part of the problem of this trans issue has been laid out before and I have not changed my stance one iota so I don't care to retype it all again.

So, reading the local news story, written by the local paper and reported straight up without all the sensationalism and spin that you consume, here are the facts as reliably reported at this time:

1. The entire board knew about the rape the day that it happened, which was about 5 months before their vote; your assertion that the girl was raped because of the vote they just took is pretty sketchy.

2. No mention is made of the boy wearing a skirt. Not by the superintendent in his original email, not by the local newspaper, not by the school board. That accusation seems to be solely from your source at this point, and even then it is presented as “some are saying”.

3. So when the school board member recently asked the question about any sexual assaults in the bathroom the superintendent assumed she meant any assaults involving trans students, because she already knew about this rape from 5 months ago. The school board member who asked the question said she understands how he could have misunderstood and doesn’t blame the superintendent.

4. NOBODY literally NOBODY is saying this: “ 'Girls can fend for themselves, we must protect the sanctified victim classes' feelings at all costs.'”

The rape that occurred at the other school apparently happened in an empty classroom. Seems that the boy pushed a girl into an empty classroom. It seems consistent with a boy pushing a girl into an empty bathroom. It probably doesn’t have anything to do with trans people or wearing a skirt.

We don’t know much of anything for sure about this yet. All we know is that this rape allegedly took place in a school bathroom. We don’t know that the boy was wearing a skirt. We don’t know that the bathroom policy even existed in May when the rape happened. Since the school board just recently voted on the policy, I would doubt that the policy was in effect when the rape happened.

So there’s not much here that would indict the bathroom policy that probably wasn’t in effect when the rape happened.

Something, something about a young man from Kentucky who was falsely accused a couple of years ago by some Native American protestors. I seem to recall an indignant Farb railing about the slanted news coverage and rightly so. I admit I believed the first reports that time, and I have learned my lesson.

Edited to add: my local source was the Loudoun Times-Mirror.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

So, reading the local news story, written by the local paper and reported straight up without all the sensationalism and spin that you consume, here are the facts as reliably reported at this time:

1. The entire board knew about the rape the day that it happened, which was about 5 months before their vote; your assertion that the girl was raped because of the vote they just took is pretty sketchy.

2. No mention is made of the boy wearing a skirt. Not by the superintendent in his original email, not by the local newspaper, not by the school board. That accusation seems to be solely from your source at this point, and even then it is presented as “some are saying”.

3. So when the school board member recently asked the question about any sexual assaults in the bathroom the superintendent assumed she meant any assaults involving trans students, because she already knew about this rape from 5 months ago. The school board member who asked the question said she understands how he could have misunderstood and doesn’t blame the superintendent.

4. NOBODY literally NOBODY is saying this: “ 'Girls can fend for themselves, we must protect the sanctified victim classes' feelings at all costs.'”

The rape that occurred at the other school apparently happened in an empty classroom. Seems that the boy pushed a girl into an empty classroom. It seems consistent with a boy pushing a girl into an empty bathroom. It probably doesn’t have anything to do with trans people or wearing a skirt.

We don’t know much of anything for sure about this yet. All we know is that this rape allegedly took place in a school bathroom. We don’t know that the boy was wearing a skirt. We don’t know that the bathroom policy even existed in May when the rape happened. Since the school board just recently voted on the policy, I would doubt that the policy was in effect when the rape happened.

So there’s not much here that would indict the bathroom policy that probably wasn’t in effect when the rape happened.

Something, something about a young man from Kentucky who was falsely accused a couple of years ago by some Native American protestors. I seem to recall an indignant Farb railing about the slanted news coverage and rightly so. I admit I believed the first reports that time, and I have learned my lesson.

Edited to add: my local source was the Loudoun Times-Mirror.

You are right. It wasn't even voted on until August.

 

[Optimus Prime]

I could carer less who gets exited about this. Both the left and right are wrong on this one. School boards should concentrate on providing a better education. Schools should never be used for political purposes.

From the education thread but better here:

One side - If you are born male but now identify as female you should use the men's bathroom
The other side - If you are born male but now identify as female should be able to use the women's bathroom

Paul - both sides are wrong on this

How can both sides be 'wrong on this one'???

There are transgender students and teachers at the school who still need to take a dump from time to time - where should they do it?

And if the bathrooms are in the school that makes it an issue that schools need to address

 

[SystemShock]

So we don't live in a rape culture? I was told we live in a rape culture? I get confused.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...record-rape-reported-school-board-day-of.html

Yep, just 2 girls raped by the same predator because the alt-left school board could not have that come out before they voted on the trans bathroom in their district.
This is what they are saying: 'Girls can fend for themselves, we must protect the sanctified victim classes' feelings at all costs.'

I think I am squarely on the side the girls on this. As for how I think a rape is part of the problem of this trans issue has been laid out before and I have not changed my stance one iota so I don't care to retype it all again.

So, in this case, do you think the criminal would have been thwarted from committing a felony if there was a law against a misdemeanor?

What's the criminal's frame of mind? " I want to rape, but I can't go into the women's bathroom to do it because going into the women's bathroom is not allowed by the school board"... "Oh, now I can claim I am a woman and go into the women's bathroom to rape a woman!!"

 

[Paul]

From the education thread but better here:

One side - If you are born male but now identify as female you should use the men's bathroom
The other side - If you are born male but now identify as female should be able to use the women's bathroom

Paul - both sides are wrong on this

How can both sides be 'wrong on this one'???

There are transgender students and teachers at the school who still need to take a dump from time to time - where should they do it?

And if the bathrooms are in the school that makes it an issue that schools need to address

It is all BS. Transgenders have been using public bathrooms for a very long time and no one cared. Now it is a big deal. It is a very boring issue OP! If a woman that believes she is a man wants to use the male bathroom no one gives a shyte. The transgender man may attract attention if he tries to urinate in a urinal standing up. Hence it is advised to go into a private stall.

A man that believes he is a woman can go into the ladies room. No one cares as long as she does not flashes her penis.

For the love of God. This is a fabricated issue.

 

[samiam5211]

For the love of God. This is a fabricated issue.

Yes, North Carolina republicans made it an issue by passing legislation regulating which bathrooms trans people can use.

Once it was made an issue, you can't blame trans people for being upset about it.

Again... NORTH CAROLINA REPUBLICANS MADE IT AN ISSUE.

 

[Paul]

Yes, North Carolina republicans made it an issue by passing legislation regulating which bathrooms trans people can use.

Once it was made an issue, you can't blame trans people for being upset about it.

Again... NORTH CAROLINA REPUBLICANS MADE IT AN ISSUE.

This is only an issue if Trans people hang a sign around their neck saying I am a woman with a penis or I am a man with a vagina. If they don't advertised no one cares.

 

[brandon]

Again... NORTH CAROLINA REPUBLICANS MADE IT AN ISSUE.

BOTH SI


...wait

 

[samiam5211]

This is only an issue if Trans people hang a sign around their neck saying I am a woman with a penis or I am a man with a vagina. If they don't advertised no one cares.

So it's not even "both sides" this time. You are literally blaming the victims of legislation passed by desperate North Carolina republicans.