All Things LGBTQ+ (3 Viewers)

[Farb]

Didn't really see a place for this so I thought I would start a thread about all things LGBTQ since this is a pretty hot topic in our culture right now

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/17/sup...y-that-refuses-to-work-with-lgbt-couples.html

• The Supreme Court on Thursday delivered a unanimous defeat to LGBT couples in a high-profile case over whether Philadelphia could refuse to contract with a Roman Catholic adoption agency that says its religious beliefs prevent it from working with same-sex foster parents.
• Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in an opinion for a majority of the court that Philadelphia violated the First Amendment by refusing to contract with Catholic Social Services once it learned that the organization would not certify same-sex couples for adoption.

I will admit, I was hopeful for this decision by the SCOTUS but I was surprised by the unanimous decision.

While I don't think there is anything wrong, per se, with same sex couples adopting and raising children (I actually think it is a good thing as it not an abortion) but I also did not want to see the state force a religious institution to bend to a societal norm.

 

[Farb]

Americans are not targeted for hatred within the context of the country. The flag is a symbol of a nation-state. I do not pledge allegiance to a flag. I value and owe, if such is the accurate term, allegiance to the country.

Your simplistic tap-dancing around the fact that LGBTQ+ people are targeted for hatred as are the symbols they embrace is unsurprising.

Does the LGTBQ pledge their allegiance to the pride flag?

That still doesn't help me understand how one flag is protected from from freedom of speech but another one isn't.

 

[Farb]

Do you think a state political party should call for a minority group to be targeted with harassment? Does that seem fine to you? Do gay slurs put out by a political party seem fine to you?

Evidently they do.

We are discussing flag burning, not politicians.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

We are discussing flag burning, not politicians.

The discussion was about politicians calling for the taking and burning of flags. Stop lying.

 

[Farb]

The discussion was about politicians calling for the taking and burning of flags. Stop lying.

Really, because I thought someone asked the question if someone considered burning the pride flag to be a hate crime? Oh, I asked the question, so yeah, your wrong

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Really, because I thought someone asked the question if someone considered burning the pride flag to be a hate crime? Oh, I asked the question, so yeah, your wrong

The post you were responding to was discussing the actions of the Colorado GOP. Your inability to follow the conversation thread is your issue, not mine.

 

[MT15]

We are discussing flag burning, not politicians.

No, what I was commenting on, the post that you replied to, was discussing a political party’s stance. You just careened on in here and started posting about something else entirely.

 

[MT15]

Really, because I thought someone asked the question if someone considered burning the pride flag to be a hate crime? Oh, I asked the question, so yeah, your wrong

I can’t even tell what you are trying to say here. You’re the one who asked the question about someone burning the pride flag and hate crimes. Nobody else has mentioned hate crimes in this scenario.

The point I was making is that the party of “free speech” and “liberty” and what not is asking people to burn pride flags. The hypocrisy is staggering.

 

[bird]

Does the LGTBQ pledge their allegiance to the pride flag?

That still doesn't help me understand how one flag is protected from from freedom of speech but another one isn't.

I actually think that you do understand. It just pizzes you off.

Do you get the concept that certain groups have always been hated in this country?

Do you get that Blacks, Hispanics, women, Asians, Catholics, masons, Indigenous people have been hated in this country for centuries? Sure, some are less hated now but the hatred exists under the surface.

So, what do out-groups do? They band together and create symbols to show solidarity with each other. Those symbols serve as easy targets for those who hate.

You know what the answer is. Deal with it.

 

[LA - L.A.]

I actually think that you do understand. It just pizzes you off.

Do you get the concept that certain groups have always been hated in this country?

Do you get that Blacks, Hispanics, women, Asians, Catholics, masons, Indigenous people have been hated in this country for centuries? Sure, some are less hated now but the hatred exists under the surface.

So, what do out-groups do? They band together and create symbols to show solidarity with each other. Those symbols serve as easy targets for those who hate.

You know what the answer is. Deal with it.

The once hated Catholics are now in charge of the Supreme Court and they are at the tip of the corpo-christo-fascist spear that we are on the verge of being impaled with.

 

[SystemShock]

I actually think that you do understand. It just pizzes you off.

Do you get the concept that certain groups have always been hated in this country?

Do you get that Blacks, Hispanics, women, Asians, Catholics, masons, Indigenous people have been hated in this country for centuries? Sure, some are less hated now but the hatred exists under the surface.

So, what do out-groups do? They band together and create symbols to show solidarity with each other. Those symbols serve as easy targets for those who hate.

You know what the answer is. Deal with it.

There is that word again, Hispanic.
I think it is a valid question, regardless of what a symbol stands for. Why is it freedom of speech to burn this piece of cloth, but not that one? "These people have been oppressed, hated, etc..." ok., but so what? If someone burns a U.S. flag, does that necessarily mean they hate the U.S. and its citizens and residents? There have been a lot of Israel flag burnings during pro-Gaza protests; the Israeli flag's main feature is the star of David. Does that mean the protestors who burn the Israeli flag, and those who condone it, necessarily hate Jews?

 

[bird]

There is that word again, Hispanic.
I think it is a valid question, regardless of what a symbol stands for. Why is it freedom of speech to burn this piece of cloth, but not that one? "These people have been oppressed, hated, etc..." ok., but so what? If someone burns a U.S. flag, does that necessarily mean they hate the U.S. and its citizens and residents? There have been a lot of Israel flag burnings during pro-Gaza protests; the Israeli flag's main feature is the star of David. Does that mean the protestors who burn the Israeli flag, and those who condone it, necessarily hate Jews?

You are correct that burning a U.S. flag or an Israeli flag does not arbitrarily mean that those doing so hate the US or Israel. Or in the case of Israel, hate Jews although I would bet some do hate Jews.

I would bet and I think you would as well that destroying a Gay pride flag is done solely because of hatred.

So, why is that different?

Because marginalization by power holders prevents those marginalized from enjoying the full benefits of citizenship and of being human. We are seeing that again now. Free speech has never been absolute nor should it be. Slander and libel are not permitted. In addition, verbal assault is/may be considered a crime in some jurisdictions. It is in Ohio.

 

[bird]

The once hated Catholics are now in charge of the Supreme Court and they are at the tip of the corpo-christo-fascist spear that we are on the verge of being impaled with.

True.

But…I would wager that should a theocracy actually occur the religionists that are Catholic would find themselves quickly on the outside looking in. Catholics, imo, in the view of the Pharisaical Right are not really Christian.

 

[LA - L.A.]

True.

But…I would wager that should a theocracy actually occur the religionists that are Catholic would find themselves quickly on the outside looking in. Catholics, imo, in the view of the Pharisaical Right are not really Christian.

I'm not sure. The Heritage Foundation is a bunch of extreme Catholics and they have loaded the courts and they are behind Project 2025. I think if Trump wins, non-Catholic extreme Christians might be the ones in for a rude awakening.

 

[bird]

I'm not sure. The Heritage Foundation is a bunch of extreme Catholics and they have loaded the courts and they are behind Project 2025. I think if Trump wins, non-Catholic extreme Christians might be the ones in for a rude awakening.

Possible. I think a possibly more likely scenario is a religious war. Catholics would be painted as Papist (again) as well as not real Christians. The RW religionists love the idea of project 2025. That being said “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” has a long history of turning out to be a failure.

But, then again, I could be wrong.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Possible. I think a possibly more likely scenario is a religious war. Catholics would be painted as Papist (again) as well as not real Christians. The RW religionists love the idea of project 2025. That being said “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” has a long history of turning out to be a failure.

But, then again, I could be wrong.

The US's very own version of The Troubles sounds plausible. Maybe the rest of just hide and let them destroy themselves.

 

[bird]

The US's very own version of The Troubles sounds plausible. Maybe the rest of just hide and let them destroy themselves.

Yeah, otoh the destruction would very likely wash over everyone else.

Cripes, this country sure can be stupid.

 

[MT15]

There is that word again, Hispanic.
I think it is a valid question, regardless of what a symbol stands for. Why is it freedom of speech to burn this piece of cloth, but not that one? "These people have been oppressed, hated, etc..." ok., but so what? If someone burns a U.S. flag, does that necessarily mean they hate the U.S. and its citizens and residents? There have been a lot of Israel flag burnings during pro-Gaza protests; the Israeli flag's main feature is the star of David. Does that mean the protestors who burn the Israeli flag, and those who condone it, necessarily hate Jews?

I don’t think anyone would object if the GOP purchased gay pride flags and then burned them. I also don’t think that was what the GOP official intended when he told people to go burn gay pride flags. I think he intended to intimidate gay people. I think it was an attempt to stifle people from feeling free to fly their flags. I have read of plenty of times where people have torn down gay pride flags from homes or businesses. Nowhere have I read of people buying them and symbolically burning them. I think the GOP has lost the benefit of the doubt in these matters.

 

[bird]

There is that word again, Hispanic.

I changed it. Sincerely, did I use the correct word when I changed it? If not, please tell me if there is a word and what it might be or I will simply use those of Spanish descent generally from Central and South America. Merely looking for guidance.

Peace.