All Things LGBTQ+ (2 Viewers)

[Farb]

Didn't really see a place for this so I thought I would start a thread about all things LGBTQ since this is a pretty hot topic in our culture right now

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/17/sup...y-that-refuses-to-work-with-lgbt-couples.html

• The Supreme Court on Thursday delivered a unanimous defeat to LGBT couples in a high-profile case over whether Philadelphia could refuse to contract with a Roman Catholic adoption agency that says its religious beliefs prevent it from working with same-sex foster parents.
• Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in an opinion for a majority of the court that Philadelphia violated the First Amendment by refusing to contract with Catholic Social Services once it learned that the organization would not certify same-sex couples for adoption.

I will admit, I was hopeful for this decision by the SCOTUS but I was surprised by the unanimous decision.

While I don't think there is anything wrong, per se, with same sex couples adopting and raising children (I actually think it is a good thing as it not an abortion) but I also did not want to see the state force a religious institution to bend to a societal norm.

 

[MT15]

Babylon Bee stopped being an unfunny conservative clone of the Onion a while ago.

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

When you believe in the sanctity of marriage so much, you've been married 4 times, but deny same sex couples a marriage license.
I hope after she loses the appeal and gets sued by more people.. she is trash..
I remember when all this happened.

Court orders anti-gay clerk Kim Davis to pay $10K to same-sex couple she refused to marry​

Davis, a conservative Christian who has been married four times, refused to provide marriage licenses to gay couples in 2015 after the U.S. Supreme Court legalized same-sex marriage. Davis told the couple in question that she was acting “under God’s authority” when she refused to issue the license because she believes marriage is only between a man and a woman.

Initially, Kentucky Gov. Matt Bevin (R) praised Davis as “an inspiration… to the children of America,” but when the court said the state government would have to pay for her legal fees, Bevin appealed to get Davis to pay the fees instead.

Davis — who was pregnant by her third husband while still married to her first — was represented by the anti-LGBTQ Liberty Counsel, a Southern Poverty Law Center designated hate group that opposes any expansion of LGBTQ+ civil rights.

Nothing like a person with good morals..lol..smh...

MSN

 

[SystemShock]

Catholic church: hold my beer.



.

 

[CoolBrees]

When you believe in the sanctity of marriage so much, you've been married 4 times, but deny same sex couples a marriage license.
I hope after she loses the appeal and gets sued by more people.. she is trash..
I remember when all this happened.

Court orders anti-gay clerk Kim Davis to pay $10K to same-sex couple she refused to marry​

Nothing like a person with good morals..lol..smh...

MSN

It says she was pregnant with a child from her first husband while married to the third.

What happened with #2?!? Was it over in like 3 weeks? Or was she cheating on two with one and three?

And then there is a fourth!

And people look at me funny when I say religion is just like alcohol :

The cause and solution to all life's problems.

 

[Farb]

That's going to depend on how you define marriage, but also, a very... simplistic way of looking at it.

A marriage in front of the State is not just for "book keeping and taxes'... it is a legal and binding contract that gives rights and assigns responsibilities to the parties involved, aims at protecting the children that marriage could produce, and provides a framework to enforce it (how god or bad that framework is, that's another discussion).

A religious ceremony is just an ancient rite, which provides no protection to anyone involved, and offers no means to enforce whatever corny and vague vows you made at the altar, or chase a deadbeat who is not paying child support... further, in the context of religion, it not only doesn't offer protection for women/children, it actually puts them at a disadvantage inherent in the dogma.

Yes.
How does a religious ceremony put women/children at a disadvantage?

You just explained the difference, besides your nihilistic and cutting edge view of religion as a whole, the difference between a civil union and a ceremonial/holy matrimony. One is strictly for book keeping and one is for something higher. While both are important, only one is an actual marriage as we have used the term since the beginning of man.

 

[Farb]

We're close to this step:

I think the school shooter in Nashville is right there with you.

 

[coldseat]

Yes.
How does a religious ceremony put women/children at a disadvantage?

You just explained the difference, besides your nihilistic and cutting edge view of religion as a whole, the difference between a civil union and a ceremonial/holy matrimony. One is strictly for book keeping and one is for something higher. While both are important, only one is an actual marriage as we have used the term since the beginning of man.

From the beginning of time? You mean when men would trade goats for a wife?

 

[LA - L.A.]

I think the school shooter in Nashville is right there with you.

Please explain how you think my post indicates that I think we should shoot people? For someone who shot people to be "right there" with me, I would have to be right there with shooting people and I am not.

I don't believe we can kill our way to a better world and I've repeatedly said that on this board. Killing people to make the world a better place is "right there" with you, not me.

 

[SystemShock]

Yes.
How does a religious ceremony put women/children at a disadvantage?

As I said, in the context of the religion, not the ceremony itself.

You just explained the difference, besides your nihilistic and cutting edge view of religion as a whole, the difference between a civil union and a ceremonial/holy matrimony. One is strictly for book keeping and one is for something higher. While both are important, only one is an actual marriage as we have used the term since the beginning of man.

My "nihilistic view" of religion? I simply don't believe in the myth you believe in, very much so like you don't believe in the myths of Valhalla, or Olympus, or the 72 virgins, or that a cow you see could be your cousin.

And my view isn't cutting edge. Hindus don't believe in your religion. Jews don't believe in your religion. It's hardly cutting edge.

"Book keeping" is a... over simplified view of civil marriage, and rather dismissive of it... the beginning of man, well, I'll use the shortest estimate, that'd be about 94,000 years before Judaism even existed, across many cultures which never heard of Yahweh or Y'shua before they were rammed down their throats... and more often than not those marriages were basically property transfers from father to husband, and they still are within the context of religion, to various extents.

 

[Optimus Prime]

When you believe in the sanctity of marriage so much, you've been married 4 times, but deny same sex couples a marriage license.
I hope after she loses the appeal and gets sued by more people.. she is trash..
I remember when all this happened.

Court orders anti-gay clerk Kim Davis to pay $10K to same-sex couple she refused to marry​

Nothing like a person with good morals..lol..smh...

MSN

I remember when Mike Huckabee paraded her around like she was a folk hero

 

[Optimus Prime]

HAMTRAMCK, Mich. — This city of 28,000 was once so Polish it was dubbed “Little Warsaw.” But in recent decades, an influx of immigrants gave Hamtramck new character. Bengali and Arabic joined English on signs at City Hall. Yemeni and Bangladeshi mosques, restaurants and shops proliferated.

And last year, a Muslim who emigrated from Yemen as a teenager became mayor — the city’s first leader in nearly a century with no Polish roots — alongside what is believed to be the nation’s only all-Muslim city council.

Many residents in this tiny enclave just north of downtown Detroit saw these changes as a sign of the Hamtramck’s progressiveness. The Muslim community that had previously experienced discrimination, including voter intimidation and resistance to mosques’ public call to prayer, had finally taken its seats at the table.

Yet the ethnic, cultural and religious diversity that made Hamtramck something of a model is being put severely to the test. In June, after divisive debate, the six-member council blocked the display of Pride flags on city property — action that has angered allies and members of the LGBQT community, who feel that the support they provided the immigrant groups has been reciprocated with betrayal.

“We welcomed you,” former council member Catrina Stackpoole, a retired social worker who identifies as gay, recalls telling the council this summer. “We created nonprofits to help feed, clothe, find housing. We did everything we could to make your transition here easier, and this is how you repay us, by stabbing us in the back?”

The council’s unanimous vote in the middle of Pride Month seemed intentional to Stackpoole and others, though the resolution banned not only the rainbow flag but all flags except for the U.S., state, city and POW/MIA banners. Mayor Amer Ghalib, 43, defends the action as one of neutrality, saying no group should be able to promote a political agenda on city property.

“We’re not targeting anybody,” he said recently. “We are trying to close the door for other groups that could be extremist or racist.”

Not everyone buys that.


“The sole purpose was absolutely to go after the gay pride flag,” maintains Josh Hansknecht, a local middle school teacher and president of the Hamtramck Queer Alliance. The issue has laid bare tension between the LGBTQ community and socially conservative Muslims like the mayor.

“The ban did not create the conflict, but it emboldened people,” said Hansknecht, 28. “It expanded on that tension.”

It also triggered a spike in thefts and vandalism of Pride flags on private property. One YouTube video shows teenagers egging homes that were flying the flag. Some people, like 23-year-old Selena Briggs, are talking about moving out of the city, saying they no longer feel welcome……..

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/09/16/hamtramck-michigan-pride-flag-ban/

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Ah, the old "your existence is political" trope.

 

[zztop]

meanwhile

2 librarians were fired after the board mistook an autism symbol for a Pride display. They’re suing.

The display featured two rainbow images that were actually about disabilities...

www.lgbtqnation.com

 

[SystemShock]

Many residents in this tiny enclave just north of downtown Detroit saw these changes as a sign of the Hamtramck’s progressiveness.

Progressiveness and Muslim don't go together.
Seems to me this "progressiveness" is merely a majority of Muslim voters in that district.

 

[Optimus Prime]

ATLANTA (AP) — Marc Tyler Nobleman was supposed to talk to kids about the secret co-creator of Batman, with the aim of inspiring young students in suburban Atlanta’s Forsyth County to research and write.

Then the school district told him he had to cut a key point from his presentation — that the artist he helped rescue from obscurity had a gay son. Rather than acquiesce, he canceled the last of his talks.

“We’re long past the point where we should be policing people talking about who they love,” Nobleman said in a telephone interview. “And that’s what I’m hoping will happen in this community.”

State laws restricting talk of sexual orientation and gender identity in schools have proliferated in recent years, but the clash with Nobleman shows schools may be limiting such discussions even in states like Georgia that haven’t officially banned them.

Some proponents of broader laws giving parents more control over schools argue they extend to discussion of sex and gender even if the statutes don’t explicitly cover them.

Eleven states ban discussion of LGBTQ+ people in at least some public schools in what are often called “Don’t say gay” laws, according to the Movement Advancement Project, an LGBTQ+ rights think tank. Five additional states require parental consent for discussion, according to the project…….

Nobleman, a self-described “superhero geek” who lives in the suburbs of Washington, D.C., is best known as the author of “Bill the Boy Wonder: The Secret Co-creator of Batman.” It lays out the story of Bill Finger, the long-uncredited author who helped create Batman and other comic book characters.

Finger died in obscurity in 1974, with artist Bob Kane credited as Batman’s only creator. Finger’s only child was a son, Fred Finger, who was gay and died in 1992 at age 43 of AIDS complications. Bill Finger was presumed to have no living heirs, meaning there was no one to press DC Comics to acknowledge Finger’s work.


But Nobleman discovered Fred Finger had a daughter, Athena Finger. That, he said, is a showcase moment of the presentation he estimates he has given 1,000 times at schools.

“It’s the biggest twist of the story, and it’s usually when I get the most gasps,” Nobleman said. “It’s just a totally record-scratch moment.”

Nobleman’s research helped push DC Comics into reaching a deal with Athena Finger in 2015 to acknowledge her grandfather and Kane as co-creators. That led to the documentary “Batman & Bill,” featuring Nobleman.


In Forsyth County, the author gave his first presentations at Sharon Elementary on Aug. 21. After Nobleman mentioned in his first talk that Fred Finger was gay, the principal handed him a note during his second talk that said, “Please only share the appropriate parts of the story for our elementary students.”

Forsyth County schools spokesperson Jennifer Caracciolo said that just mentioning Fred Finger was gay isn’t the problem. But she said it led to questions from students, meaning Nobleman and students might discuss sexuality without parents being warned.……

Nobleman said he was blindsided and agreed to drop the reference to Fred Finger’s sexual orientation in remaining presentations that day, as well as in three at another school the next day. But by the morning of the third day, Nobleman started fielding questions from reporters after the principal at Sharon Elementary sent an electronic message to parents apologizing for the mention of Fred Finger’s homosexuality.

“This is not subject matter that we were aware that he was including nor content that we have approved for our students,” Principal Brian Nelson wrote. “I apologize that this took place. Action was taken to ensure that this was not included in Mr. Nobleman’s subsequent speeches and further measures will be taken to prevent situations like this in the future.”

And so, on the third day he was presenting, after a discussion with district officials, Nobleman refused to give the last two of his scheduled presentations if required to omit Finger’s sexual orientation.

Many parents have applauded Forsyth County’s actions, Caracciolo said. Cindy Martin, chair of the Mama Bears, said Nobleman should be “ashamed of himself.”

She argues that a 2022 Georgia law bans discussion of sexuality without parental consent for any minor because it gives parents “the right to direct the upbringing and the moral or religious training” of their children.

“No one has the right to talk to a child about sexuality unless it’s the parent, or the parent has given permission,”Martin said. “Mr. Nobleman did not have permission. So he went against Georgia law.”……..

A Batman researcher said 'gay' in a talk to schoolkids. When asked to censor himself, he quit

An author's clash with a Georgia school district over a brief mention of a gay person during a presentation highlights the reach of conservatives' push for what what they call parents' rights.

apnews.com

 

[MT15]

ATLANTA (AP) — Marc Tyler Nobleman was supposed to talk to kids about the secret co-creator of Batman, with the aim of inspiring young students in suburban Atlanta’s Forsyth County to research and write.

Then the school district told him he had to cut a key point from his presentation — that the artist he helped rescue from obscurity had a gay son. Rather than acquiesce, he canceled the last of his talks.

“We’re long past the point where we should be policing people talking about who they love,” Nobleman said in a telephone interview. “And that’s what I’m hoping will happen in this community.”

State laws restricting talk of sexual orientation and gender identity in schools have proliferated in recent years, but the clash with Nobleman shows schools may be limiting such discussions even in states like Georgia that haven’t officially banned them.

Some proponents of broader laws giving parents more control over schools argue they extend to discussion of sex and gender even if the statutes don’t explicitly cover them.

Eleven states ban discussion of LGBTQ+ people in at least some public schools in what are often called “Don’t say gay” laws, according to the Movement Advancement Project, an LGBTQ+ rights think tank. Five additional states require parental consent for discussion, according to the project…….

Nobleman, a self-described “superhero geek” who lives in the suburbs of Washington, D.C., is best known as the author of “Bill the Boy Wonder: The Secret Co-creator of Batman.” It lays out the story of Bill Finger, the long-uncredited author who helped create Batman and other comic book characters.

Finger died in obscurity in 1974, with artist Bob Kane credited as Batman’s only creator. Finger’s only child was a son, Fred Finger, who was gay and died in 1992 at age 43 of AIDS complications. Bill Finger was presumed to have no living heirs, meaning there was no one to press DC Comics to acknowledge Finger’s work.


But Nobleman discovered Fred Finger had a daughter, Athena Finger. That, he said, is a showcase moment of the presentation he estimates he has given 1,000 times at schools.

“It’s the biggest twist of the story, and it’s usually when I get the most gasps,” Nobleman said. “It’s just a totally record-scratch moment.”

Nobleman’s research helped push DC Comics into reaching a deal with Athena Finger in 2015 to acknowledge her grandfather and Kane as co-creators. That led to the documentary “Batman & Bill,” featuring Nobleman.


In Forsyth County, the author gave his first presentations at Sharon Elementary on Aug. 21. After Nobleman mentioned in his first talk that Fred Finger was gay, the principal handed him a note during his second talk that said, “Please only share the appropriate parts of the story for our elementary students.”

Forsyth County schools spokesperson Jennifer Caracciolo said that just mentioning Fred Finger was gay isn’t the problem. But she said it led to questions from students, meaning Nobleman and students might discuss sexuality without parents being warned.……

Nobleman said he was blindsided and agreed to drop the reference to Fred Finger’s sexual orientation in remaining presentations that day, as well as in three at another school the next day. But by the morning of the third day, Nobleman started fielding questions from reporters after the principal at Sharon Elementary sent an electronic message to parents apologizing for the mention of Fred Finger’s homosexuality.

“This is not subject matter that we were aware that he was including nor content that we have approved for our students,” Principal Brian Nelson wrote. “I apologize that this took place. Action was taken to ensure that this was not included in Mr. Nobleman’s subsequent speeches and further measures will be taken to prevent situations like this in the future.”

And so, on the third day he was presenting, after a discussion with district officials, Nobleman refused to give the last two of his scheduled presentations if required to omit Finger’s sexual orientation.

Many parents have applauded Forsyth County’s actions, Caracciolo said. Cindy Martin, chair of the Mama Bears, said Nobleman should be “ashamed of himself.”

She argues that a 2022 Georgia law bans discussion of sexuality without parental consent for any minor because it gives parents “the right to direct the upbringing and the moral or religious training” of their children.

“No one has the right to talk to a child about sexuality unless it’s the parent, or the parent has given permission,”Martin said. “Mr. Nobleman did not have permission. So he went against Georgia law.”……..

A Batman researcher said 'gay' in a talk to schoolkids. When asked to censor himself, he quit

An author's clash with a Georgia school district over a brief mention of a gay person during a presentation highlights the reach of conservatives' push for what what they call parents' rights.

apnews.com

Acknowledging that gay people exist, and that a person has a gay son is NOT discussing sexuality. To believe that it is a sexual talk you have to be willing to erase people. That is what the GOP stands for now - denying that certain people exist.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Acknowledging that gay people exist, and that a person has a gay son is NOT discussing sexuality. To believe that it is a sexual talk you have to be willing to erase people. That is what the GOP stands for now - denying that certain people exist.

Exactly. If the mere mention that a person is gay is discussing sexuality, then mentioning that Bob is married to Susan is also a discussion of sexuality. You (a general you, not you specifically) can't have it both ways.

 

[Optimus Prime]

At the beginning of 2023, drag came under attack.

Tennessee, Texas and Montana all passed laws which would specifically ban drag artists from performing in certain public spaces – the latest part of a conservative culture war that has seen books banned from schools and libraries around the US and rights stripped from the LGBTQ+ community.

But the Republican-led anti-drag crusade – seen by activists as a front for further attacks on trans people – has run into problems.

In each of those states, judges, including one appointed by Donald Trump, have blocked the laws after lawsuits from drag queens and civil rights groups. On Thursday, a judge in Texas extended a block on the state’s drag ban from taking effect, setting up a hearing for a permanent injunction later in September.

Florida has also seen a law restricting drag shows blocked, while in Alabama a proposed bill was quietly dropped after hundreds of people protested at the state’s capitol.

While Republicans say they will continue trying to pass the drag-ban bills, the failure so far has given tentative hope that the right wing’s war on LGBTQ+ people is running into trouble.

Tennessee was the first state in the country to pass a law placing strict limits on drag shows, when the state’s Republican governor, Bill Lee, signed the legislation into law on 2 March.

The law banned “male or female impersonators” from performing in public spaces, which would include Pride parades on public property, or in a location where it can be viewed by minors. The wording was criticized by the ACLU, which told the WPLN radio station the law is a “subtle and sinister way to further criminalize just being trans”...............

‘Subtle and sinister’: Republicans’ anti-drag crusade seen as assault on LGBTQ+ rights

Hundreds of anti-LGBTQ+ laws were introduced in 2023, including bans on drag shows, but many have been struck down

www.theguardian.com