All Things LGBTQ+ (2 Viewers)

[Farb]

Didn't really see a place for this so I thought I would start a thread about all things LGBTQ since this is a pretty hot topic in our culture right now

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/17/sup...y-that-refuses-to-work-with-lgbt-couples.html

• The Supreme Court on Thursday delivered a unanimous defeat to LGBT couples in a high-profile case over whether Philadelphia could refuse to contract with a Roman Catholic adoption agency that says its religious beliefs prevent it from working with same-sex foster parents.
• Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in an opinion for a majority of the court that Philadelphia violated the First Amendment by refusing to contract with Catholic Social Services once it learned that the organization would not certify same-sex couples for adoption.

I will admit, I was hopeful for this decision by the SCOTUS but I was surprised by the unanimous decision.

While I don't think there is anything wrong, per se, with same sex couples adopting and raising children (I actually think it is a good thing as it not an abortion) but I also did not want to see the state force a religious institution to bend to a societal norm.

 

[Snarky Sack]

You are obsessed with "disagreeing" which is why you read everything from everyone in a way that confirms your biases which are bigoted when taken at face value.

Obsessively posting isolated and unflattering images/video of people is not just "disagreeing," it's bigoted disrespect and hate when taken at face value.

Obsessively asking people who they would and wouldn't have sex with is not just "disagreeing."

And there's the documented, objective fact, you are the only one who keeps obsessively bringing up having sex with transwomen with penises. No one else ever brings that up. It's always and only your that brings that up.

I'm just trying to find out if they are sincere in their claim that transwomen are real women the same as women who are biological females are women. That they do not have a ready answer, shows me that they have not really thought their position through.

They are entitled to hold positions that they have not thought through. I only object because - having not thought it through - they attack anyone who disagrees with them, instead of discussing why.

You're like a dog with a bone when it comes to transwomen with penises.

Ok, that was a good one, so I'll let you have the last word on the subject of penises.

 

[LA - L.A.]

That they do not have a ready answer, shows me that they have not really thought their position through.

If you were dating, not married or involved with someone, would you date a transgender woman who had breast augmentation and their penis surgically replaced with a cosmetically created vagina?

Follow up, what would you do if you found after the fact that the person you were dating did have cosmetic surgery that "passed" your eye test?

I only ask to see if you've really thought your position through.

 

[Snarky Sack]

If you were dating, not married or involved with someone, would you date a transgender woman who had breast augmentation and their penis surgically replaced with a cosmetically created vagina?

I only ask to see if you've really thought your position through.

No, I would not.

Men are not changed into women through hormones and surgery. They can be turned into men with imitations of vaginas, and artificially enlarged breasts, but that does not make them women.

Questions are not hard for me.

 

[Snarky Sack]

So the Netherlands is in Europe. I thought they were moving away from this?

Miss Universe Netherlands Crowns Trans Woman Rikkie Valerie Kollé

Kollé will be the second transgender woman to compete in Miss Universe during the 2023 event in El Salvador later this year.

www.huffpost.com

They are moving away from transgenderization of children through chemical and surgical castration and genital mutilation.

Nobody cares if people like grown up transwomen in beauty pageants.

 

[MT15]

They are moving away from transgenderization of children through chemical and surgical castration and genital mutilation.

Nobody cares if people like grown up transwomen in beauty pageants.

That’s not remotely true - I have seen people strongly reacting to this beauty pageant winner all day, they care a great deal.

Nobody believes that the people leading the attacks on gender care will stop if the treatment of adolescents under 18 is banned. They will continue to attack trans adults, just like they do now only with more urgency because they succeeded in one area.

 

[Snarky Sack]

That’s not remotely true - I have seen people strongly reacting to this beauty pageant winner all day, they care a great deal.

You must have been viewing more outrage porn. Where are you seeing these strong reactions?

Nobody believes that the people leading the attacks on gender care will stop if the treatment of adolescents under 18 is banned. They will continue to attack trans adults, just like they do now only with more urgency because they succeeded in one area.

Doubtful. Since Dr. Rene Richards "became a woman," in the seventies and nobody much cared. She was in her forties, or close to it. There was not even much outcry about her playing women's tennis because she was obviously sincere about being a woman, having had the bottom surgery after living as a woman for years. IIRC, there were a few who said that men might someday use this to compete unfairly against women athletes, but the left assured us that only morons would think something like that could happen.

The left also said we were morons to think that feminist movement might lead to people using whatever bathrooms they want. I guess we are like what used to be called "idiot savants," who can barely tie our own shoes, but somehow able to analyze current trends and predict future ones.

Anyway, if trans activists were not claiming the "right" to castrate or mutilate children and chemically castrate them, and to introduce them to the transgender lifestyle as pre-teens, why would we care any more now than we did in the seventies, the eighties, and the nineties?

 

[MT15]

You must have been viewing more outrage porn.

Doubtful. Since Dr. Rene Richards "became a woman," and nobody much cared. She was in her forties, or close to it. There was not even much outcry about her playing women's tennis because she was obviously sincere about being a woman, having had the bottom surgery after living as a woman for years. IIRC, there were a few who said that men might use this to compete unfairly against women athletes, but the left assured us that only morons would think something like that could happen.

The left also said we were morons to think that feminist movement might lead to people using whatever bathrooms they want. I guess we are like what used to be called "idiot savants," can barely tie our own shoes, but somehow able to analyze current trends and predict future ones.

Anyway, if trans activists were not claiming the "right" to castrate or mutilate children and chemically castrate them, and to introduce them to the transgender lifestyle as pre-teens, why would we care any more now than we did in the seventies, the eighties, and the nineties?

LOL, you are really letting your mask slip these days. You are, once again, regurgitating lies and smears. Only now you are letting it be known how you feel about women as well with your insulting revisionist history where you are right about everything. Hubris.

Your memory is extremely faulty. Nobody cared about Rene Richards? It was quite the thing in its day. She was barred from competing by basically every tennis association, and there was a huge outcry about it. All the tennis associations instituted hasty chromosome tests that players had to take and pass. She sued, and eventually won the right to play - and at that point it became not a huge deal.

 

[Snarky Sack]

LOL, you are really letting your mask slip these days. You are, once again, regurgitating lies and smears. Only now you are letting it be known how you feel about women as well with your insulting revisionist history where you are right about everything. Hubris.

Your memory is extremely faulty. Nobody cared about Rene Richards? It was quite the thing in its day. She was barred from competing by basically every tennis association, and there was a huge outcry about it. All the tennis associations instituted hasty chromosome tests that players had to take and pass. She sued, and eventually won the right to play - and at that point it became not a huge deal.

Nobody cared that she had the surgery, I should have said. As far as the sports, conservatives have grown a lot on the issue of women's sports. In the seventies, they thought women's sports were a joke and a distraction from "real sports." Now, my generation and after having seen the great effects that female sports have had on our daughters, we are very protective of those gains, no pun intended.

There were a few TV preacher railing against it, I suppose. No laws were passed to stop adults from being medically and surgically transitioned as far as I know. I don't know of any laws like that that have been passed now, though you are welcome to provide examples since that is what you claim it being done.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Men are not changed into women through hormones and surgery. They can be turned into men with imitations of vaginas, and artificially enlarged breasts, but that does not make them women.

You've made it painfully clear that you think biological sex and gender are the exact same thing. I disagree.

I personally don't foresee ever having a physical relationship with anyone who has a penis. It's an aesthetic thing for me and not a gender or biological sexual thing. To me, penises are the most physically ridiculous and unaesthetic aspect of human anatomy. I think those of us with penises are fortunate that anyone else is willing to have anything to do with our penises.

My penis doesn't make me who or what I am as a person. If I lost my penis and testicles, I would still be who and what I am as a person. Just like losing an arm or a leg wouldn't change who and what I am as a person.

Since I don't define myself by my genitalia, nor any other part of my anatomy, I respect the rights of others to define themselves however they see fit.

Questions are not hard for me.

That's great, so it'll be easy for you to answer this question too:

What would you do if you found out that a person you had a physical relationship with was a transgender woman who had convincing cosmetic surgery?

 

[MT15]

There were a few TV preacher railing against it, I suppose. No laws were passed to stop adults from being medically and surgically transitioned as far as I know. I don't know of any laws like that that have been passed now, though you are welcome to provide examples since that is what you claim it being done.

So you just wish away the huge outcry that made every tennis association change their rules to bar her from playing? It just didn’t happen in your world? Hilarious

I did not claim there are current laws being passed, but it wouldn’t surprise me. I just said nobody is fooled into thinking this is about the children, and that the transphobia will go away if any of the laws against gender care are upheld. Nope, these bigots will move on to passing laws about adults right away. The laws about minors have been stayed by every judge they’ve come before to date anyway.

 

[RobF]

Might as well address this one in general terms as well.

The "I bet you wouldn't date them," argument is also irrational, prejudiced, and often laden with underlying misogyny.

The implied premise is that, for an individual to qualify as a person of a particular gender, someone who is in general attracted to people of that gender must be attracted to that individual. Or, to put it more broadly, that gender can be defined in terms of being attractive to other people who identify as being attracted to that gender.

And there's so much wrong with that premise, it's hard to know where to begin. For starters, being attracted to a gender does not mean being attracted to literally every single person of that gender. If a heterosexual man finds they're not generally attracted to, for example, short women, those women would remain women regardless. The general premise - that if an individual heterosexual man would not generally date women with a particular characteristic, those women aren't women - fails, because of course it does. That's not how any of that works.

It also shifts the concept of identity away from the individual. That is, an individual cannot be defined in their own terms, but is instead defined by others. This is also flawed, as can be shown by simply considering it the other way around: if a man who is not trans was declared to be attractive to heterosexual men, it wouldn't make them a woman.

And it's particularly dubious since this argument is typically deployed by men talking about transgender women. The specific underlying premise, then, is that women are defined by their attractiveness to men. Yeesh.

 

[bird]

They are moving away from transgenderization of children through chemical and surgical castration and genital mutilation.

Nobody cares if people like grown up transwomen in beauty pageants.

There is no such thing as transgenderization. It is another one of your political fantasies. genital mutilation is done to people who do not want it done or who have no choice thus just another political fantasy for you.

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

There is no such thing as transgenderization. It is another one of your political fantasies. genital mutilation is done to people who do not want it done or who have no choice thus just another political fantasy for you.

Agenda is the word they love to use. This Agenda to turn all humans into the opposite sex apparently..lol

 

[MT15]

More lunacy on this issue. Just crazy abuse of power by these AGs:

 

[brandon]

No, I would not.

Men are not changed into women through hormones and surgery. They can be turned into men with imitations of vaginas, and artificially enlarged breasts, but that does not make them women.

Questions are not hard for me.

Ok, but like what if she's hot.

In the seventies, they thought women's sports were a joke and a distraction from "real sports." Now, my generation and after having seen the great effects that female sports have had on our daughters, we are very protective of those gains, no pun intended.

It's almost like conservatives are always on the wrong side of history, and then a few decades later, they find something new to be wrong about.

 

[coldseat]

Ok, but like what if she's hot.


It's almost like conservatives are always on the wrong side of history, and then a few decades later, they find something new to be wrong about.

Not to mention the complete hypocrisy of lambasting the very same feminist movement that advocated for and was responsible for the evolution in woman's sports and where it is today. We evil liberals always have such evil long term plans.

 

[MT15]

Well, that didn’t take long:

 

[brandon]

Well, that didn’t take long:

Next case on the docket.