All Things LGBTQ+ (2 Viewers)

[Farb]

Didn't really see a place for this so I thought I would start a thread about all things LGBTQ since this is a pretty hot topic in our culture right now

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/17/sup...y-that-refuses-to-work-with-lgbt-couples.html

• The Supreme Court on Thursday delivered a unanimous defeat to LGBT couples in a high-profile case over whether Philadelphia could refuse to contract with a Roman Catholic adoption agency that says its religious beliefs prevent it from working with same-sex foster parents.
• Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in an opinion for a majority of the court that Philadelphia violated the First Amendment by refusing to contract with Catholic Social Services once it learned that the organization would not certify same-sex couples for adoption.

I will admit, I was hopeful for this decision by the SCOTUS but I was surprised by the unanimous decision.

While I don't think there is anything wrong, per se, with same sex couples adopting and raising children (I actually think it is a good thing as it not an abortion) but I also did not want to see the state force a religious institution to bend to a societal norm.

 

[Snarky Sack]

What you have just done is mischaracterize the entire process of gender affirming treatment. I would suggest that you read the medical protocols that must be satisfied before gender affirming treatment is started.

Thank you for that suggestion! I looked up the Standards of Care document published by WPATH (World Professional Association for Transgender Health). Just skimming it so far, I see some statements I'd like to discuss. But, before I read it thoroughly, I'd ask what in particular in those protocols you think will be enlightening for me. I don't want to miss them and have you just say "keep reading until you realize I'm right!"

Will you also read it, or state whether you have already read it, so we can have an informed discussion?

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/26895269.2022.2100644

Don’t be part of this emotional “trans panic” that will do real damage in people’s lives.

I doubt that people wanting to protect children for chemical or surgical castration will damage anyone but those who want to do those things to children.

 

[MT15]

Thank you for that suggestion! I looked up the Standards of Care document published by WPATH (World Professional Association for Transgender Health). Just skimming it so far, I see some statements I'd like to discuss. But, before I read it thoroughly, I'd ask what in particular in those protocols you think will be enlightening for me. I don't want to miss them and have you just say "keep reading until you realize I'm right!

Will you also read it, or state whether you have already read it, so we can have an informed discussion?

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/26895269.2022.2100644

I doubt that people wanting to protect children for chemical or surgical castration will damage anyone but those who want to do those things to children.

Nope I won’t be discussing this with you further. You are running hot on emotion here rather than facts. Then again, you deal with your emotions almost exclusively, rather than facts. So any discussion with you is ultimately unsatisfying.

Edit to add: it’s odd that we have been mostly discussing US laws and practices and you wouldn’t go to a US medical protocol. I’ll bet there is a self-serving reason, but I just don’t care enough to look into it.

 

[Snarky Sack]

First bolded statement made me truly chuckle and shows you have zero self-awareness.

Second bolded statement is just the new version of the old “if we allow men to marry men, the next thing is that men will marry toasters”. Another LOL.

Glad to entertain!

Last thought - didn’t your own governor do something similar - isn’t he trying to sic CPS on the parents of trans kids who seek treatment?

I'll be happy to see your evidence of that. Won't surprise me, and if he is doing it, I disagree with him for that.

 

[Snarky Sack]

Nope I won’t be discussing this with you further. You are running hot on emotion here rather than facts. Then again, you deal with your emotions almost exclusively, rather than facts. So any discussion with you is ultimately unsatisfying.

So you ask me to read up on something, then bail when I say that I will.

You're welcome to do so, and I'm welcome to when you do.

Anyone else want to talk about WPATH standards of care? I'm reading Chapter 7 - Children, and it is an eye-opener.

 

[MT15]

Glad to entertain!

I'll be happy to see your evidence of that. Won't surprise me, and if he is doing it, I disagree with him for that.

“Gov. Greg Abbott told state health agencies in Texas on Tuesday that medical treatments provided to transgender adolescents, widely considered to be the standard of care in medicine, should be classified as “child abuse” under existing state law.

His statements, made in a letter to the Texas Department of Family and Protective Services, followed an opinion on Friday by Attorney General Ken Paxton that said providing medical treatments like puberty-suppressing drugs and hormones to transgender teenagers should be investigated as child abuse.”

Texas Governor Pushes to Investigate Medical Treatments for Trans Youth as ‘Child Abuse’ (Published 2022)

While it’s unclear whether the order could be enforced, medical providers and child welfare advocates condemned the move as dangerous.

www.nytimes.com

Texas Governor Pushes to Investigate Medical Treatments for Trans Youth as ‘Child Abuse’

 

[MT15]

So you ask me to read up on something, then bail when I say that I will.

You're welcome to do so, and I'm welcome to when you do.

Anyone else want to talk about WPATH standards of care? I'm reading Chapter 7 - Children, and it is an eye-opener.

Why are you picking that one? Care to pick one more common in the US?

I may have time to come back to this later, but I don’t have that kind of time right now.

 

[Snarky Sack]

Edit to add: it’s odd that we have been mostly discussing US laws and practices and you wouldn’t go to a US medical protocol. I’ll bet there is a self-serving reason, but I just don’t care enough to look into it.

If doctors in the US do not follow WPATH standards of care, I'll be happy to look at whatever standards of care they do follow. WPATH is the only organization I see consistently cited as the authority.

Are you sure that your saying :

I would suggest that you read the medical protocols that must be satisfied before gender affirming treatment is started.

Was not just a way to snarkily imply that I am uninformed while giving me a reading assigment? Sure seems that way, given your response when I accept your suggestion.

 

[Snarky Sack]

“Gov. Greg Abbott told state health agencies in Texas on Tuesday that medical treatments provided to transgender adolescents, widely considered to be the standard of care in medicine, should be classified as “child abuse” under existing state law.

His statements, made in a letter to the Texas Department of Family and Protective Services, followed an opinion on Friday by Attorney General Ken Paxton that said providing medical treatments like puberty-suppressing drugs and hormones to transgender teenagers should be investigated as child abuse.”

Texas Governor Pushes to Investigate Medical Treatments for Trans Youth as ‘Child Abuse’ (Published 2022)

While it’s unclear whether the order could be enforced, medical providers and child welfare advocates condemned the move as dangerous.

www.nytimes.com

Texas Governor Pushes to Investigate Medical Treatments for Trans Youth as ‘Child Abuse’

Yes, I disagree with him on that.

How do you feel about parents being reported to CPS for not providing Gender Affirming care to their children, if it is recommended by a school counselor, or family practice doctor, who refers them to a gender specialist?

Texas Mother Was Reported to CPS for Refusing To Affirm Son’s New Gender Identity | IWF

Just before his 13th birthday, Deserie Thomas’s son began succumbing to gender ideology. She had noticed that he was exhibiting feminine tendencies, but she didn’t think much of it at the time. His best friend was a girl, so she chalked it up to the feminine influence in his life.

www.iwf.org

Things started to go downhill for Deserie’s son when she mentioned to her son’s pediatrician that she had observed in him some girlish behavior. The pediatrician recommended that she take her son to a teenage behavioral specialist, promising her that the specialist would be able to help. Thomas followed the pediatrician’s recommendation and paid a visit to the specialist. Within the first 10 minutes of their meeting, the specialist announced in front of Thomas and her son that she was writing a prescription for puberty blockers so that “when he wants to transition to become a girl, it will be easier.”

. . .

Deserie ended up taking her son to a psychiatrist who had been another recommendation from her son’s pediatrician. Shortly after sitting down with Deserie and her son, the psychiatrist said, “I see in my notes that you like to be called a different name.” When Deserie protested, the psychiatrist insisted that affirming her son’s new gender identity was the only possible solution. So Deserie ended the visit. But the psychiatrist began following her down the hallway, referring to her son by his preferred female name, saying, “Lizzy, Lizzy, it’s OK. Listen, ma’am, this is how we help.”


Shortly after that visit, Deserie received a call from Child Protective Services. The agent said they had received a report from the psychiatrist, who accused Deserie and her husband of failing to provide her son with medically recommended care and opening him up to possible sexual abuse. Keep in mind: this psychiatrist spent less than five minutes total with Deserie and her son. She knew nothing about this young man or his family yet was willing to sic the government on them with allegations she fabricated.

For those who question what is meant by "transgenderization," there are a couple of examples of people doing it.

Deserie should have realized as soon as she talked to the first gender specialist that she needed to keep her child away from people like that, not try to find new ones. Clearly, she needs a new pediatrician.

 

[Huntn]

Yesterday heard an outstanding report on NPR about Queer Ecology, the study of nature to understand sexual reproduction across life forms, as a result recognizing a binary choice of sexual reproduction should not be regarded as the only norm. Unfortunately I can’t find a link but did locate this:

What Is Queer Ecology?

Queer theory expands our relationship with nature

www.sierraclub.org

 

[bird]

Yes, I disagree with him on that.

How do you feel about parents being reported to CPS for not providing Gender Affirming care to their children, if it is recommended by a school counselor, or family practice doctor, who refers them to a gender specialist?

Texas Mother Was Reported to CPS for Refusing To Affirm Son’s New Gender Identity | IWF

Just before his 13th birthday, Deserie Thomas’s son began succumbing to gender ideology. She had noticed that he was exhibiting feminine tendencies, but she didn’t think much of it at the time. His best friend was a girl, so she chalked it up to the feminine influence in his life.

www.iwf.org

Things started to go downhill for Deserie’s son when she mentioned to her son’s pediatrician that she had observed in him some girlish behavior. The pediatrician recommended that she take her son to a teenage behavioral specialist, promising her that the specialist would be able to help. Thomas followed the pediatrician’s recommendation and paid a visit to the specialist. Within the first 10 minutes of their meeting, the specialist announced in front of Thomas and her son that she was writing a prescription for puberty blockers so that “when he wants to transition to become a girl, it will be easier.”

. . .

Deserie ended up taking her son to a psychiatrist who had been another recommendation from her son’s pediatrician. Shortly after sitting down with Deserie and her son, the psychiatrist said, “I see in my notes that you like to be called a different name.” When Deserie protested, the psychiatrist insisted that affirming her son’s new gender identity was the only possible solution. So Deserie ended the visit. But the psychiatrist began following her down the hallway, referring to her son by his preferred female name, saying, “Lizzy, Lizzy, it’s OK. Listen, ma’am, this is how we help.”


Shortly after that visit, Deserie received a call from Child Protective Services. The agent said they had received a report from the psychiatrist, who accused Deserie and her husband of failing to provide her son with medically recommended care and opening him up to possible sexual abuse. Keep in mind: this psychiatrist spent less than five minutes total with Deserie and her son. She knew nothing about this young man or his family yet was willing to sic the government on them with allegations she fabricated.

For those who question what is meant by "transgenderization," there are a couple of examples of people doing it.

Deserie should have realized as soon as she talked to the first gender specialist that she needed to keep her child away from people like that, not try to find new ones. Clearly, she needs a new pediatrician.

No, it is not. Transgenderization is a political fallacy.

 

[Snarky Sack]

No, it is not. Transgenderization is a political fallacy.

Transgenderization is not a fallacy. Here is yet another example of it:

OLYMPIA, Wash. (AP) — Minors seeking gender-affirming care in Washington will be protected from the intervention of estranged parents under a measure Gov. Jay Inslee signed into law Tuesday.

The new law is part of a wave of legislation this year in Democratic-led states intended to give refuge amid a conservative movement in which lawmakers in other states have attacked transgender rights and limited or banned gender-affirming care for minors.

Existing Washington law generally requires licensed shelters and host homes to notify parents within 72 hours when a minor comes into their care. Under the new law, facilities can instead contact the state Department of Children, Youth and Families, which could then attempt to reunify the family if feasible. Youths will also be allowed to stay at host homes — private, volunteer homes that temporarily house young people without parental permission.

So, if a parent chooses to live in a state that bans chemical and surgical castration of children, the child can over-ride the parents' decision if they can just make it to the state of Washington, who will house them and get them that "Gender Affirming Care," without them having to worry about those pesky parents. Oh, but the kid does have to claim that he or she is "estranged" from his or her parents. No, doubt, they will be promoted to say that within the first moments of intake.

 

[Snarky Sack]

Thou shalt not cover both sides!

News directors at Michigan TV station ousted after telling staff to 'get both sides' of Pride coverage | CNN Business

Two news directors at a Michigan NBC affiliate were ousted following the circulation of an internal memo calling for scaled-back coverage of Pride Month events and directing station’s journalist to “get both sides” on LGBTQ issues, a source told CNN.

www.cnn.com

Nor have any God before PRIDE!

 

[Snarky Sack]

Anti-Oil protesters attack Pride bus.



This is why the idea of how great life would be if we only got rid of those icky Republicans won't work.

Without cons to attack, progs would just turn to attacking each other.

 

[bird]

Transgenderization is not a fallacy. Here is yet another example of it:

OLYMPIA, Wash. (AP) — Minors seeking gender-affirming care in Washington will be protected from the intervention of estranged parents under a measure Gov. Jay Inslee signed into law Tuesday.

The new law is part of a wave of legislation this year in Democratic-led states intended to give refuge amid a conservative movement in which lawmakers in other states have attacked transgender rights and limited or banned gender-affirming care for minors.

Existing Washington law generally requires licensed shelters and host homes to notify parents within 72 hours when a minor comes into their care. Under the new law, facilities can instead contact the state Department of Children, Youth and Families, which could then attempt to reunify the family if feasible. Youths will also be allowed to stay at host homes — private, volunteer homes that temporarily house young people without parental permission.

So, if a parent chooses to live in a state that bans chemical and surgical castration of children, the child can over-ride the parents' decision if they can just make it to the state of Washington, who will house them and get them that "Gender Affirming Care," without them having to worry about those pesky parents. Oh, but the kid does have to claim that he or she is "estranged" from his or her parents. No, doubt, they will be promoted to say that within the first moments of intake.

Transgenderization is a political fallacy.

 

[bird]

Anti-Oil protesters attack Pride bus.



This is why the idea of how great life would be if we only got rid of those icky Republicans won't work.

Without cons to attack, progs would just turn to attacking each other.

Getting rid of Republicans would be a great start. Glad you have come to that realization.

 

[MT15]

Is there any other way to describe this apart from open, unbridled hostility?

(Which is synonymous with hate, by the way).

 

[Eeyore]

I got a text from my union president this morning to go to another department and take care of multiple complaints.

A few years ago the daughter of a coworker won a high award for basketball. He was proud and posted her newspaper article next to the whiteboard in their break trailer. It features a large picture of her. After a very good college career, she ended up on a professional team. Nobody ever took the picture down. We're happy for him and want to see her thrive

This morning somebody wrote "Straight Pride" next to it.

That's a coworker's daughter.

I had to explain to everybody that you can't do that in the work place. They're lucky that the union got to it before the company.

The response that I got was "why do they get to rub it in our faces but we can't do the same?" There has been none of that to my knowledge and they admitted that. The only graffiti that we have is right wing stuff and it's everywhere. Everybody else is able to act like an adult.

I don't think that he was the one who complained. I hope that he didn't see it.

I don't even think that she's a lesbian. I guess that it's because she's a female athlete.

 

[Snarky Sack]

I got a text from my union president this morning to go to another department and take care of multiple complaints.

A few years ago the daughter of a coworker won Miss Basketball for the state. He was proud and posted her newspaper article next to the whiteboard in their break trailer. It features a large picture of her. After a very good college career, she ended up on a WNBA team. Nobody ever took the picture down. We're happy for him and want to see her thrive

It sounds like she is thriving.

This morning somebody wrote "Straight Pride" next to it.

That's a coworker's daughter.

I had to explain to everybody that you can't do that in the work place. They're lucky that the union got to it before the company.

Why? The union would not defend its workers?

The response that I got was "why do they get to rub it in our faces but we can't do the same?" There has been none of that to my knowledge and they admitted that. The only graffiti that we have is right wing stuff and it's everywhere. Everybody else is able to act like an adult.

I don't think that he was the one who complained. I hope that he didn't see it.

I'm not sure the issue here. Other than the obvious vandalism of writing on the bulletin board instead of getting permission to post something. But that doesn't seem to be your concern.

Are there pride posters and decorations at the company?

You know the workers you speak of, so maybe it is obvious to you, but I'm not getting it.

I don't even think that she's a lesbian. I guess that it's because she's a female athlete.

I would not have interpreted it that way at all.

I would have interpreted it as showing pride in a biological female who succeeded in women's basketball, and hasn't yet been forced out of her place on the team by a biological male.

I don't know if the WNBA allows men on the team yet, but when it does, the WNBA will turn into a farm team for the NBA. Guys are not going to turn down the chance to shower and change with a dozen or so athletic young women AND get paid for it.