All Things LGBTQ+ (1 Viewer)

[Farb]

Didn't really see a place for this so I thought I would start a thread about all things LGBTQ since this is a pretty hot topic in our culture right now

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/17/sup...y-that-refuses-to-work-with-lgbt-couples.html

• The Supreme Court on Thursday delivered a unanimous defeat to LGBT couples in a high-profile case over whether Philadelphia could refuse to contract with a Roman Catholic adoption agency that says its religious beliefs prevent it from working with same-sex foster parents.
• Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in an opinion for a majority of the court that Philadelphia violated the First Amendment by refusing to contract with Catholic Social Services once it learned that the organization would not certify same-sex couples for adoption.

I will admit, I was hopeful for this decision by the SCOTUS but I was surprised by the unanimous decision.

While I don't think there is anything wrong, per se, with same sex couples adopting and raising children (I actually think it is a good thing as it not an abortion) but I also did not want to see the state force a religious institution to bend to a societal norm.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

How many fingers do humans have on 1 hand?

I am saying that person is atypical but that person does not constitute an entirely new category.

That's a hell of a lot of words without actually saying yes or no. Is that person a female, Farb?

 

[SystemShock]

I'd say that an argument that relies on there being no such thing as context isn't much of an argument.

Who is making an argument without context?

 

[brandon]

@Farb and @SystemShock have some reading to do.

Intersex - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Sex assignment at birth usually aligns with a child's anatomical sex and phenotype. The number of births with ambiguous genitals is in the range of 0.02% to 0.05%.[3] Other conditions involve atypical chromosomes, gonads, or hormones.[4][5] Some persons may be assigned and raised as a girl or boy but then identify with another gender later in life, while most continue to identify with their assigned sex.[6][7][8] The number of births where the baby is intersex has been reported differently depending on who reports and which definition of intersex is used. Anne Fausto-Sterling and her co-authors suggest that the prevalence of ″nondimorphic sexual development″ might be as high as 1.7%.[9][10] Leonard Sax says that this figure includes conditions which most clinicians do not recognize as intersex, and that in those "conditions in which chromosomal sex is inconsistent with phenotypic sex, or in which the phenotype is not classifiable as either male or female", the prevalence of intersex is about 0.018%.[4][11][12]

If you ask experts at medical centers how often a child is born so noticeably atypical in terms of genitalia that a specialist in sex differentiation is called in, the number comes out to about 1 in 1500 to 1 in 2000 births [0.07–0.05%]. But a lot more people than that are born with subtler forms of sex anatomy variations, some of which won't show up until later in life.[64]

Taking the lowest number on that list (0.02%), that would be approximately 1.4M people on earth whose genitals are considered "ambiguous."

1.4million "outliers" that you don't currently have a definition for.

 

[SystemShock]

I did. Are you saying that someone born without a cervix, uterus, Fallopian tubes, and birth canal is someone with reproductive organs?

From your link:
Mayer-Rokitansky-Küster-Hauser (MRKH) syndrome affects approximately 1 in every 5,000 women worldwide. A congenital abnormality, MRKH affects the reproductive tract during fetal development, essentially meaning that the reproductive system doesn't grow fully. In most cases, this means MRKH women are born without a uterus, cervix, or vaginal canal (or that these are not considered "fully functional"). The condition is not normally detected until during puberty and/or when an MRKH woman becomes sexually active, as no external signs are apparent,

Which means there is a normal looking vulva present.

In any case, like I said, never say never, but someone born with no sex organs whatsoever is as close to impossible as it gets. But, if there was a case when someone was born completely absent of any sex organs and had no somewhat vaguely defining chromosomes, I wouldn't call them male or female of the species, just person.

 

[brandon]

From your link:
Mayer-Rokitansky-Küster-Hauser (MRKH) syndrome affects approximately 1 in every 5,000 women worldwide. A congenital abnormality, MRKH affects the reproductive tract during fetal development, essentially meaning that the reproductive system doesn't grow fully. In most cases, this means MRKH women are born without a uterus, cervix, or vaginal canal (or that these are not considered "fully functional"). The condition is not normally detected until during puberty and/or when an MRKH woman becomes sexually active, as no external signs are apparent,

Which means there is a normal looking vulva present.

In any case, like I said, never say never, but someone born with no sex organs whatsoever is as close to impossible as it gets. But, if there was a case when someone was born completely absent of any sex organs and had no somewhat vaguely defining chromosomes, I wouldn't call them male or female of the species, just person.

And what about persons born with sex organs that are both male and female?

Which bathroom would you send this person to?

 

[brandon]

How many fingers do humans have on 1 hand?

I am saying that person is atypical but that person does not constitute an entirely new category.

And which bathroom would you assign this person to?

 

[SystemShock]

@Farb and @SystemShock have some reading to do.

Intersex - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Taking the lowest number on that list (0.02%), that would be approximately 140M people on earth whose genitals are considered "ambiguous."

I don't have to do any reading, thank you. But if we are going to be passive aggressive, perhaps you should read about math

140 million "outliers" that you don't currently have a definition for.

You literally posted a link with the definition. But I am sure that some are already offended by the word "intersex".

 

[brandon]

I don't have to do any reading, thank you. But if we are going to be passive aggressive, perhaps you should read about math

Touche. Updated to reflect that you don't have a bathroom for at least 1.4 million people.

You literally posted a link with the definition. But I am sure that some are already offended by the word "intersex".

Cool. To which bathroom will you be assigning these people?

 

[Optimus Prime]

Sad read about how this is effecting real families
================================

What Jeff Walker’s family needs right now is clarity.

The family of four in Auburn, Ala., is one of those affected by two bills targeting trans youths signed into law this month by Gov. Kay Ivey (R). One makes providing gender-affirming care to a minor a felony, and the other restricts trans children from using bathroom and locker facilities that align with their gender identities. It also bars any instruction in public schools that mentions gender or sexuality until the sixth grade.

The education bill, which would force Walker’s teenage daughter Harleigh to use the boy’s bathroom at her high school, won’t go into effect until the next school year. But the clock is ticking on the health-care bill, which could be enforced as soon as May 8 if legal challenges don’t block it.

To prepare, they’ve been talking to clinics in neighboring states to see if and how Harleigh can continue receiving gender-affirming care; they’ve learned the closest and safest place to access care is Georgia, Walker said. Moving would be the worst-case scenario, he added: “We can’t just pick up and go.”

There’s a mortgage to consider, as well as his 19-year-old son, who started college this semester and is serving in the Alabama National Guard.

“If we decide we have to split, one parent has to stay behind and make sure his needs are met,” said Walker, whose son lives at home. “You’re breaking up a family.”

So the Walkers are keeping their eyes on the news and continuing to weigh their options as the May 8 deadline creeps closer. For his and other families, the shock of the bills passing in the first place has not worn off: “I think everybody’s kind of in the same boat: What do we do? What is next and what’s right for them?”............

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/04/19/alabama-trans-health-care-ban-families/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F36a127b%2F62602f1764253a7f343e8c4b%2F5a0cb1ffade4e230f7038273%2F37%2F70%2F62602f1764253a7f343e8c4b

 

[Optimus Prime]

We'll see how this goes
================

In the war for the hearts, minds and corporate relocations of businesses, Chicago has fired another shot across the bow at three Sun Belt rivals over recent legislation targeting the LGBTQ+ community, such as the Florida education law critics have dubbed “Don’t Say Gay.”

World Business Chicago, the city’s public-private economic development arm, bought full-page ads Thursday in the Orlando Sentinel, Dallas Morning News and Phoenix Business Journal to launch a new marketing campaign and promote Chicago as a more inclusive business climate.

“In Chicago, We Believe,” takes on a lightning rod issue that has led a growing number of corporations, including Walt Disney Co., to condemn a wave of anti-LGBTQ+ legislation enacted in Florida and other states. While Disney World is unlikely to pull up stakes anytime soon, the new ad includes a broader pitch that all businesses are “welcome in Chicago.”

“Chicago has values as a city, which makes it attractive for talent and corporations in the climate where other states drive legislation that is not respectful, inclusive of all the residents,” said Michael Fassnacht, president and CEO of World Business Chicago and the city’s chief marketing officer. “I think that diversity is our key competitive advantage.”

Last month, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis signed legislation “prohibiting classroom discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity” in kindergarten through third grade. The Parental Rights in Education law has sparked outrage among LGBTQ+ advocates and opposition from dozens of companies, including Disney, which has 77,000 employees at its Disney World theme park in Orlando............

Chicago business relocation pitch targets ‘Don’t Say Gay’ legislation with full-page ads in Florida, Texas and Arizona

 

[cuddlemonkey]

From your link:
Mayer-Rokitansky-Küster-Hauser (MRKH) syndrome affects approximately 1 in every 5,000 women worldwide. A congenital abnormality, MRKH affects the reproductive tract during fetal development, essentially meaning that the reproductive system doesn't grow fully. In most cases, this means MRKH women are born without a uterus, cervix, or vaginal canal (or that these are not considered "fully functional"). The condition is not normally detected until during puberty and/or when an MRKH woman becomes sexually active, as no external signs are apparent,

Which means there is a normal looking vulva present.

In any case, like I said, never say never, but someone born with no sex organs whatsoever is as close to impossible as it gets. But, if there was a case when someone was born completely absent of any sex organs and had no somewhat vaguely defining chromosomes, I wouldn't call them male or female of the species, just person.

The presence of a vulva that looks normal makes this person female?

 

[Farb]

That's a hell of a lot of words without actually saying yes or no. Is that person a female, Farb?

Can you define female for me first?

And for the bathroom question, do they pee standing or sitting? That should help clarify any confusion on that end.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Can you define female for me first?

And for the bathroom question, do they pee standing or sitting? That should help clarify any confusion on that end.

Since this started with something System Shock said, I've been working from his definition, which necessitates the presence of a womb.

 

[Farb]

Since this started with something System Shock said, I've been working from his definition, which necessitates the presence of a womb.

So, just womb, not genitalia?

 

[MT15]

I’d like to propose a rule: every time you guys discuss female genitalia and treat it like it’s some sort of basketball that you have to possess to “win” this argument, a woman chosen by consent decree gets a free shot at your “genitals”. How about that?

How about a woman can tell you that they are a woman if you are confused? If you don’t know, just ask. This preoccupation with genitalia and identity is reductive and insulting. It’s actually not really anybody’s business. I just love it that men in general feel like they can sit back and arbitrate who is a woman or how to define a woman.

Women aren’t possessions that have to be cataloged and defined. They are full human beings with all the dignity and rights that go along with that. Except for fully half the states who are busy taking women’s rights away.

I have other thoughts on this discussion. Keep going like you are, and I will tell you them too.

 

[Farb]

I’d like to propose a rule: every time you guys discuss female genitalia and treat it like it’s some sort of basketball that you have to possess to “win” this argument, a woman chosen by consent decree gets a free shot at your “genitals”. How about that?

How about a woman can tell you that they are a woman if you are confused? If you don’t know, just ask. This preoccupation with genitalia and identity is reductive and insulting. It’s actually not really anybody’s business. I just love it that men in general feel like they can sit back and arbitrate who is a woman or how to define a woman.

Women aren’t possessions that have to be cataloged and defined. They are full human beings with all the dignity and rights that go along with that. Except for fully half the states who are busy taking women’s rights away.

I have other thoughts on this discussion. Keep going like you are, and I will tell you them too.

Actually, that is precisely the conservation we are having. How do you catalog and define a woman and a man.

Do you not think if a person has a penis and balls then that person is male?

 

[SystemShock]

Which bathroom would you send this person to?

Who the fork is talking about bathrooms?

 

[SystemShock]

Since this started with something System Shock said, I've been working from his definition, which necessitates the presence of a womb.

It does not necessitate the presence of a womb.