All Things CHINA (1 Viewer)

[Farb]

What has China been up to lately? Not much, just the usual crimes against humanity and a new possible pandemic! Fun country.

https://apnews.com/269b3de1af34e17c1941a514f78d764c

"The Chinese government is taking draconian measures to slash birth rates among Uighurs and other minorities as part of a sweeping campaign to curb its Muslim population, even as it encourages some of the country’s Han majority to have more children.

While individual women have spoken out before about forced birth control, the practice is far more widespread and systematic than previously known, according to an AP investigation based on government statistics, state documents and interviews with 30 ex-detainees, family members and a former detention camp instructor. The campaign over the past four years in the far west region of Xinjiang is leading to what some experts are calling a form of “demographic genocide.”

The state regularly subjects minority women to pregnancy checks, and forces intrauterine devices, sterilization and even abortion on hundreds of thousands, the interviews and data show. Even while the use of IUDs and sterilization has fallen nationwide, it is rising sharply in Xinjiang.

The population control measures are backed by mass detention both as a threat and as a punishment for failure to comply. Having too many children is a major reason people are sent to detention camps, the AP found, with the parents of three or more ripped away from their families unless they can pay huge fines. Police raid homes, terrifying parents as they search for hidden children."

 

[dtc]

I think I understand now. We aren't supposed to discuss anything except Trump and pointing out similar examples from recent events or things that are hypocritical shouldn't be allowed?

It's quite ironic that you are complaining about whataboutisms and Trump in a thread about China.

Well, you're right about the topic migration. My apologies, but your comment about what Obama did about Iran sort of get my mind going another way.

So, you tell me. Obama worked to bring on the TPP.

Trump crashed it in a fire.

What has Trump done that's been good for our economic or political relationship with China?

All I've seen is senseless and infeffective trade policies that have created uncertainty and increased costs for US Businesses and consumers.

 

[MT15]

Trump is actually relevant for this thread because he is the president right now. His actions or lack thereof have everything to do with what is going on with China right now, and our response to their misdeeds, or lack of response.

Bringing up Obama constantly is not relevant. It’s over and done with.

 

[Savage]

So history/context isn't important at all when discussing current events in politics? That makes zero sense... Knowing HOW we got here is always relevant and if we can't do that then that's dumb.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

So history/context isn't important at all when discussing current events in politics? That makes zero sense... Knowing HOW we got here is always relevant and if we can't do that then that's dumb.

Of course it's important. The problem is bringing up a different president (Obama) in regards to how he handled a country in a different part of the world (Iran) is irrelevant to this discussion.

 

[MT15]

So history/context isn't important at all when discussing current events in politics? That makes zero sense... Knowing HOW we got here is always relevant and if we can't do that then that's dumb.

Nobody says that historical context isn’t relevant, but that’s not what we had here. At least not to me. What we had was something brought up solely to distract from the current situation, sort of “look over there, don’t examine the current situation too closely”. I’m happy to hear how you took it though.

 

[wardorican]

@Farb you bounced on your topic. I brought up something for you to consider.

 

[superchuck500]

U.S. moves to reject Chinese claims in the South China sea. If backed with any effort enforce this position, it is an escalation.

 

[Savage]

What's happening in China is disgusting. How long are we as a nation (and world) going to continue to overlook the atrocities happening there?

 

[Dragon]

What's happening in China is disgusting. How long are we as a nation (and world) going to continue to overlook the atrocities happening there?

Ask Trump - he apparently told china he did not care. He only cared about his trade deal.

 

[Farb]

Lebron says your misinformed and really don't understand the situation going on over there. Sarcasm off/

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/16/us/politics/barr-china.html

And then

https://techcrunch.com/2020/07/17/apple-new-sanlitun-store/

Money. When China runs out of money is when they stop kowtowing to China.

 

[Maxp]

We as a nation really have an opportunity right now to make meaningful headway against our enemy, China. They gave us a great justification to rally against and make needed lasting changes in offer own society. Trump has completely fumbled this too, no surprise there, and I don't see Biden offering much hope is this case either.

 

[The moose]

We as a nation really have an opportunity right now to make meaningful headway against our enemy, China. They gave us a great justification to rally against and make needed lasting changes in offer own society. Trump has completely fumbled this too, no surprise there, and I don't see Biden offering much hope is this case either.

In case you missed it China is a dance partner for corporate America not the devil!

Our politics allowed our middle class to be shifted to China chasing the all mighty shareholders profit and shirtting on the working class here for the wealthy.

Our middle class is so gone in fact general motors! GM sold more cars to China's middle class than to all of Americans!

You can't call them out without looking in the mirror.

You can't call China our enemy without calling out corporate America, lobbies, shareholders, corporate laws, and political parties also.

But go right on and think that China is actually a bigger enemy than the one within.

 

[Farb]

In case you missed it China is a dance partner for corporate America not the devil!

Our politics allowed our middle class to be shifted to China chasing the all mighty shareholders profit and shirtting on the working class here for the wealthy.

Our middle class is so gone in fact general motors! GM sold more cars to China's middle class than to all of Americans!

You can't call them out without looking in the mirror.

You can't call China our enemy without calling out corporate America, lobbies, shareholders, corporate laws, and political parties also.

But go right on and think that China is actually a bigger enemy than the one within.

You left out our politicians. They are 100% responsible for this, even more so than the corporate fat cats.
Despite that, I don't buy into the narrative that the US is the main problem in this world. I know there is a never ending push by the left to make this appear so but I don't buy it and the vast majority don't, regardless of what the NBA and Hollywood will tell you. I think the PRC is the source for most of the evil in this world and it is growing at a rapid rate. Made in China 2025 is real and its not just producing better ear buds or shoes for our rugged millennial youth either.

The left has never been big on calling out evil in the world where it actually exists. It prefers to stay vague and shadowy. IMO. Take Stalin for example. So I am not surprised most still want to blame Trump or US in general.

 

[The moose]

You left out our politicians. They are 100% responsible for this, even more so than the corporate fat cats.
Despite that, I don't buy into the narrative that the US is the main problem in this world. I know there is a never ending push by the left to make this appear so but I don't buy it and the vast majority don't, regardless of what the NBA and Hollywood will tell you. I think the PRC is the source for most of the evil in this world and it is growing at a rapid rate. Made in China 2025 is real and its not just producing better ear buds or shoes for our mildly mentally challenged youth either.

The left has never been big on calling out evil in the world where it actually exists. It prefers to stay vague and shadowy. IMO. Take Stalin for example. So I am not surprised most still want to blame Trump or US in general.

Did not forget political parties.


In fact the idiots have you thinking they are the enemy!

They are the furthest thing. Get rid of China and they will build factories wherever the wage is cheap to fork you and me. Are you ready for the next enemy to be Peru? India? Take your pick if China is our enemy so are they!

The true enemy of the American working class is the shareholders and the laws they get passed to fork us.

 

[Dragon]

You left out our politicians. They are 100% responsible for this, even more so than the corporate fat cats.
Despite that, I don't buy into the narrative that the US is the main problem in this world. I know there is a never ending push by the left to make this appear so but I don't buy it and the vast majority don't, regardless of what the NBA and Hollywood will tell you. I think the PRC is the source for most of the evil in this world and it is growing at a rapid rate. Made in China 2025 is real and its not just producing better ear buds or shoes for our mildly mentally challenged youth either.

The left has never been big on calling out evil in the world where it actually exists. It prefers to stay vague and shadowy. IMO. Take Stalin for example. So I am not surprised most still want to blame Trump or US in general.

I know this might sound harsh but you've got the politicians you yourself chose

Politics aren't easy, neither is democracy. It is hard and takes hard work. You need to actually spend time and examine what each politician you can vote for stand for. What is their voting records? Are they truely "your representative" or just another bought vote?

And get rid of the stereotypes - the left is not evil communist

The rest of the world are shaking their heads at how you keep voting people into power who don't care about their own constituents just because they keep telling you that the left is evil communist. What is wrong with ensuring that people get a wage they can actually raise a family on? What is wrong with ensuring that companies are not poluting the environment and poisining their workers along the way? Why should a simpel illness put people in debt for the remainder of their lives? Why do the US squander so much of its youthfull talent simply due to the fact that many can't afford college?

These things are not communism. This is basic human rights in most hightly industrialized democratic societies.

and neither is the right not all evil facist...

Traditions and history is important and ensuring a healthy business environment creates jobs. But instead of supporting the billion dollars international conglomerates, look for politicians who will work on supporting small startup companies and the infrastructure they need. Who will focus on building communities and creating opportunies not only in big cities but also in the rural areas. Help companies who creates jobs away from the big cities with better infrastructure (roads/internet etc) and tax incentives for companies who keep the jobs local.

Bottom line. Do your homework and don't just eat the divisive hate mongering raw!

 

[Maxp]

In case you missed it China is a dance partner for corporate America not the devil!

Our politics allowed our middle class to be shifted to China chasing the all mighty shareholders profit and shirtting on the working class here for the wealthy.

Our middle class is so gone in fact general motors! GM sold more cars to China's middle class than to all of Americans!

You can't call them out without looking in the mirror.

You can't call China our enemy without calling out corporate America, lobbies, shareholders, corporate laws, and political parties also.

But go right on and think that China is actually a bigger enemy than the one within.

I didn't forget about our companies. This is precisely the opportunity I'm talking. The federal government has the power to force the production of strategic national interests due to this pandemic. Elon Musk had proven we can still make things in the US. Corporate America needs to be forced to bring certain industry back to the US.


Also, I still can't edit my posts on here.

 

[Richard]

Also, I still can't edit my posts on here.

I don't know what the problem could be. You are hitting the edit button, right?

Our greatest problem with China could be our own politicians' lack of understanding of China, their goals and their methodology. I believe that our politicians of both parties are thinking of Chinese actions in the same way that they would characterize actions by a European country, Russia, even other Asian countries like Japan. They do not operate in the same ways or largely have the same motivations.

I don't have all of the answers regarding China, but our recent administrations do not seem to have strong enough policies toward China to slow their expansion of influence in the world. We aren't a strong voice in curbing the atrocities the Chinese government inflicts on its own people, mostly because we have ceded any moral high ground we may have once had or at least pretended to have.

IMO, we are severely screwing up where China is concerned. We need a plan that Democrats and Republicans agree will be the preferred course with them and initiate policies to that end. Our current direction is all but handing them the mantle of most dominant country on the planet in my mind.

 

[Farb]

I know this might sound harsh but you've got the politicians you yourself chose

Politics aren't easy, neither is democracy. It is hard and takes hard work. You need to actually spend time and examine what each politician you can vote for stand for. What is their voting records? Are they truely "your representative" or just another bought vote?

Not harsh at all, I agree with all of this. I often say we get what we deserve and we get the politicians we elect(that is also a bullet point on the whiteness under rugged individualism, just fyi, so be careful throwing that around). So I am 100% with you.

And get rid of the stereotypes - the left is not evil communist

True. The radical left is evil communist.
The right tends to think the left is gullible and dumb in their policies. The left thinks the right is evil for their policies. I am not sure how one cannot see the correlation between to the radical left and communism/marxism.

The rest of the world are shaking their heads at how you keep voting people into power who don't care about their own constituents just because they keep telling you that the left is evil communist. What is wrong with ensuring that people get a wage they can actually raise a family on? What is wrong with ensuring that companies are not poluting the environment and poisining their workers along the way? Why should a simpel illness put people in debt for the remainder of their lives? Why do the US squander so much of its youthfull talent simply due to the fact that many can't afford college?

This is always something that makes me scratch my head. Why does Europe care who we vote or don't vote for? I couldn't even tell you who was president/PM or whatever they all have besides Boris Johnson (my white culture coming out) and Markel in Germany. That is it. Europe's infatuation with the US is kind of creepy. You guys are slipping into socialism and look at us for odd as to not embrace the loving warmth of a large central corrupt government. I know our government sucks right now because of those we elect (sorry) but our hope is it will get better.
Nothing you listed above is something conservatives or liberals for that matter would stand against. Granted, the path to the goal will be different. I would rather rely on the free market with very limited governmental input when necessary to solve these issues than a big ever growing government. A company goes down and parts of it are sold. A government goes down, it is taking as many and as much down with it as possible.

Traditions and history is important and ensuring a healthy business environment creates jobs. But instead of supporting the billion dollars international conglomerates, look for politicians who will work on supporting small startup companies and the infrastructure they need. Who will focus on building communities and creating opportunies not only in big cities but also in the rural areas. Help companies who creates jobs away from the big cities with better infrastructure (roads/internet etc) and tax incentives for companies who keep the jobs local.

I agree with everything here too. I do think something will be coming to help incentives companies moving their production from China. I think in the next year, this will be a world wide effort from free and democratic societies as it should be.

Japan and Australia are a few steps ahead

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2...-diplomacy/tokyo-china-us-relations-business/