All Things CHINA (1 Viewer)

[Farb]

What has China been up to lately? Not much, just the usual crimes against humanity and a new possible pandemic! Fun country.

https://apnews.com/269b3de1af34e17c1941a514f78d764c

"The Chinese government is taking draconian measures to slash birth rates among Uighurs and other minorities as part of a sweeping campaign to curb its Muslim population, even as it encourages some of the country’s Han majority to have more children.

While individual women have spoken out before about forced birth control, the practice is far more widespread and systematic than previously known, according to an AP investigation based on government statistics, state documents and interviews with 30 ex-detainees, family members and a former detention camp instructor. The campaign over the past four years in the far west region of Xinjiang is leading to what some experts are calling a form of “demographic genocide.”

The state regularly subjects minority women to pregnancy checks, and forces intrauterine devices, sterilization and even abortion on hundreds of thousands, the interviews and data show. Even while the use of IUDs and sterilization has fallen nationwide, it is rising sharply in Xinjiang.

The population control measures are backed by mass detention both as a threat and as a punishment for failure to comply. Having too many children is a major reason people are sent to detention camps, the AP found, with the parents of three or more ripped away from their families unless they can pay huge fines. Police raid homes, terrifying parents as they search for hidden children."

 

[Dragon]

I agree on just about everything, minus the OP didn't want a worthwhile thread. That kind of hurt.

I would love to see all the countries, UN, WHO, WTO (NBA is optional at this point) condemn China for their lack of human rights as quickly as these same organization do against other countries and this includes the US. We have some countries signing long term infrastructure contracts while overlooking the countries horrible track record of human rights. Yes, this includes our glorious leader Trump.

Australia has recently committed to a massive military build up stemming from China's reaction to the Covid* virus and China's territory disputes in the Pacific.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/01/aust...defense-spending-morrison-intl-hnk/index.html

How about the getting the current US administration on board? The US left the UN human rights council for god sake AND the WHO!!
According to another thread Trump greenlighted the internment camps for the Uyghurs, Kazakhs and Kyrgyz

If you want something done against China and human rights violation then start by getting your own government to actually care more rather than just focusing on economics and trade concessions.

 

[samiam5211]

I can’t help but think that having the TPP in place would give us leverage with China bigly.

 

[The moose]

I can’t help but think that having the TPP in place would give us leverage with China bigly.

Yep and bigly is an understatement.

That is why you have friends to help. Friends to have your back.

Sad how stupid this administration truly is.

 

[wardorican]

About what I figured. A post on China committing genocide on a minority culture and this quickly switches to "what about Trump!?" on the 3rd post.

You guys can't see it at all, can you? LOL

Ignoring the trope of people just hating Trump....

China is clearly doing very bad things, like they have for a long time. We all agree.

So, what's the next question? What do we do about it? I very bluntly said, in post #5, essentially we don't care. We want our cheap stuff, and we will gladly put our heads in the sand otherwise. Just like for diamonds, chocolate, cobalt, and other items that have major issues, to put it lightly. Even though, I will say, in the last few years, there has been a decent push about various 'conflict materials'.

Maybe a few folks do care. Ok, how do we change it? Well, you need to get the G7, or the UN on it. Well, that won't happen without the USA pushing it, or at least lending our voice. And Trump, has shown no interest at all in being tough with Xi, unless it's about trade. He does whatever he can to not upset him, because he thinks, like in his real estate businesses, that blowing smoke up Xi's arse will seal the deal. Because that's what works with Trump . I do believe there have been similar articles about this, and he's even been asked questions about other things China has been doing, and he's been very reluctant to discuss it, or downplays it. It has been a complaint for a while. I think the Virus is the only exception to this now

So, how on Earth does this topic not end up talking about the US President? Did you just want people to be angry about this and do nothing about it? Or is this a call to arms to address an atrocity?

 

[dtc]

This should be a good topic to discuss despite the candidates. China is our main rival and they have us by the balls. What are we doing to reverse the strategic stranglehold China has on the US? Few if any national politicians are mentioning it.

We aren't doing anything.

By some miraculous turn of a corrupt election system, the US elected a person who is so dense yet so arrogant that instead of taking serious actions to back up his tough words, he's behaved like a child. His policies towards china have been entirely ineffective, but worse than that he's refused to lead our nation during the pandemic.

I don't know if it's irony or just a sick twist of fate, but we are facing an existential threat twice at the same time. One from the mindless policies of Trump coupled with the refusal of good and decent conservatives to check his lunacy and a pandemic which is going to burn our economy to the ground due to our own stupidity. The rest of the world watches in amazement as the once great leader of the world follows a babbling fool into the abyss of conspiracies and denial.

 

[SaintForLife]

Maybe Ward is voting for “Didn’t look the other way when Putin paid to have US Soldiers killed” Biden instead?

I myself am pulling the lever for “Didn’t think Lysol and light under your skin would kill Covid19” Biden

Are you pulling the lever for "Looked the other way when Iran paid to have US soldiers killed" Biden while Obama released 50 to 150 billion to Iran?

Report: Iran pays $1,000 for each U.S. soldier killed by the Taliban

Iran is paying Taliban fighters $1,000 for each U.S. soldier they kill in Afghanistan, according to a report Sunday in a British newspaper.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[The moose]

Are you pulling the lever for "Looked the other way when Iran paid to have US soldiers killed" Biden while Obama released 50 to 150 billion to Iran?

Report: Iran pays $1,000 for each U.S. soldier killed by the Taliban

Iran is paying Taliban fighters $1,000 for each U.S. soldier they kill in Afghanistan, according to a report Sunday in a British newspaper.

www.nbcnews.com

Well I guess that is concrete evidence that Russia is not our one of our buddies! Iran has not been our chums and pals since the 70s so that is to be expected. Thanks for pointing out exactly how much Russia is not our pal.

Have a great 4th!

 

[CoolBrees]

Are you saying our political footing is the same for Iran and Russia? That a public threat from Iran has the same depravity as a covert one with a country we are trying to get in the G7?

that is ridiculous on its face.

Maybe you should stick to misquoting sun tzu

 

[SaintForLife]

Are you saying our political footing is the same for Iran and Russia? That a public threat from Iran has the same depravity as a covert one with a country we are trying to get in the G7?

that is ridiculous on its face.

Maybe you should stick to misquoting sun tzu

I was just curious if you were okay with Iran doing the same thing that Russia is accused of doing. Why would political footing matter if Iran was paying bounties to kill US troops? It didn't stop Obama from giving Iran 50 to 150 billion dollars.

 

[Dragon]

I was just curious if you were okay with Iran doing the same thing that Russia is accused of doing. Why would political footing matter if Iran was paying bounties to kill US troops? It didn't stop Obama from giving Iran 50 to 150 billion dollars.

You do know that the US did not "give" Iran billions of dollars, right? What happened was that funds that had been withheld due to sanctions, mostly from oil trade in the US, Europe and other nations, was released...

 

[SaintForLife]

You do know that the US did not "give" Iran billions of dollars, right? What happened was that funds that had been withheld due to sanctions, mostly from oil trade in the US, Europe and other nations, was released...

I understand the difference. Feel free to focus on that if you would like. Aren't you outraged that Obama did nothing about Iran paying the Taliban to kill US soldiers?

 

[SaintForLife]

I agree on just about everything, minus the OP didn't want a worthwhile thread. That kind of hurt.

I would love to see all the countries, UN, WHO, WTO (NBA is optional at this point) condemn China for their lack of human rights as quickly as these same organization do against other countries and this includes the US. We have some countries signing long term infrastructure contracts while overlooking the countries horrible track record of human rights. Yes, this includes our glorious leader Trump.

Australia has recently committed to a massive military build up stemming from China's reaction to the Covid* virus and China's territory disputes in the Pacific.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/01/aust...defense-spending-morrison-intl-hnk/index.html

Come on Farb. If you don't write a term paper length OP then you aren't really wanting a true discussion

 

[SaintForLife]

So, since I was one who brought it up, do you not see that with someone so clueless running our Executive Branch, we have zero chance of doing anything about China? What do you think we can do? I am serious about it, it’s totally relevant. Our government is as effective as Trump is right now.

What did Obama do in regards to China?

 

[Dragon]

What did Obama do in regards to China?

He brokered the TPP as a counterweigth to the Chineese influence in the pacific region. An agreement which Trump pulled out of leaving China as the singular strongest power in the region.

 

[dtc]

I understand the difference. Feel free to focus on that if you would like. Aren't you outraged that Obama did nothing about Iran paying the Taliban to kill US soldiers?

But Obama did something. They had a clear strategy that included using diplomacy and inclusion to negotiate with Iran and bring them out of their isolation and crazy ways and into the international community. There was even some progress and international support from our allies.

That all ended with Trump's crusade against anything Obama ever touched. Our fledgling relationship was soured and then burned. Any credibility we had gained by taking the ste;s we'd taken evaporated and right or wrong, it's a done deal. Of course, Obama wasn't trying to buddy up to Iran's crazy leaders. He didn't invite them to Camp David or the G7. He didn't deny his own intelligence was accurate regarding their intentions. Obama did not bring top level Russian operatives into the White House promising favors and fawn over shirtless pictures of Rouhani and the Mullahs either.

Trump has done everything in his power to avoid having to stop slobbering as he fawns over Putin. There's really no comparison between Obama's handling of Iran and Trump's handling of Russia.

 

[SaintForLife]

But Obama did something. They had a clear strategy that included using diplomacy and inclusion to negotiate with Iran and bring them out of their isolation and crazy ways and into the international community. There was even some progress and international support from our allies.

That all ended with Trump's crusade against anything Obama ever touched. Our fledgling relationship was soured and then burned. Any credibility we had gained by taking the ste;s we'd taken evaporated and right or wrong, it's a done deal. Of course, Obama wasn't trying to buddy up to Iran's crazy leaders. He didn't invite them to Camp David or the G7. He didn't deny his own intelligence was accurate regarding their intentions. Obama did not bring top level Russian operatives into the White House promising favors and fawn over shirtless pictures of Rouhani and the Mullahs either.

Trump has done everything in his power to avoid having to stop slobbering as he fawns over Putin. There's really no comparison between Obama's handling of Iran and Trump's handling of Russia.

I applaud Obama for trying to avoid war with Iran, but let's not act like he didn't do some questionable things to achieve his goal.

An ambitious U.S. task force targeting Hezbollah's billion-dollar criminal enterprise ran headlong into the White House's desire for a nuclear deal with Iran.

The secret backstory of how Obama let Hezbollah off the hook

An ambitious U.S. task force targeting Hezbollah's billion-dollar criminal enterprise ran headlong into the White House's desire for a nuclear deal with Iran

www.politico.com

In its determination to secure a nuclear deal with Iran, the Obama administration derailed an ambitious law enforcement campaign targeting drug trafficking by the Iranian-backed terrorist group Hezbollah, even as it was funneling cocaine into the United States, according to a POLITICO investigation.

...But as Project Cassandra reached higher into the hierarchy of the conspiracy, Obama administration officials threw an increasingly insurmountable series of roadblocks in its way, according to interviews with dozens of participants who in many cases spoke for the first time about events shrouded in secrecy, and a review of government documents and court records. When Project Cassandra leaders sought approval for some significant investigations, prosecutions, arrests and financial sanctions, officials at the Justice and Treasury departments delayed, hindered or rejected their requests.

The Justice Department declined requests by Project Cassandra and other authorities to file criminal charges against major players such as Hezbollah’s high-profile envoy to Iran, a Lebanese bank that allegedly laundered billions in alleged drug profits, and a central player in a U.S.-based cell of the Iranian paramilitary Quds force. And the State Department rejected requests to lure high-value targets to countries where they could be arrested.

 

[dtc]

I applaud Obama for trying to avoid war with Iran, but let's not act like he didn't do some questionable things to achieve his goal.

An ambitious U.S. task force targeting Hezbollah's billion-dollar criminal enterprise ran headlong into the White House's desire for a nuclear deal with Iran.

The secret backstory of how Obama let Hezbollah off the hook

An ambitious U.S. task force targeting Hezbollah's billion-dollar criminal enterprise ran headlong into the White House's desire for a nuclear deal with Iran

www.politico.com

In its determination to secure a nuclear deal with Iran, the Obama administration derailed an ambitious law enforcement campaign targeting drug trafficking by the Iranian-backed terrorist group Hezbollah, even as it was funneling cocaine into the United States, according to a POLITICO investigation.

...But as Project Cassandra reached higher into the hierarchy of the conspiracy, Obama administration officials threw an increasingly insurmountable series of roadblocks in its way, according to interviews with dozens of participants who in many cases spoke for the first time about events shrouded in secrecy, and a review of government documents and court records. When Project Cassandra leaders sought approval for some significant investigations, prosecutions, arrests and financial sanctions, officials at the Justice and Treasury departments delayed, hindered or rejected their requests.

The Justice Department declined requests by Project Cassandra and other authorities to file criminal charges against major players such as Hezbollah’s high-profile envoy to Iran, a Lebanese bank that allegedly laundered billions in alleged drug profits, and a central player in a U.S.-based cell of the Iranian paramilitary Quds force. And the State Department rejected requests to lure high-value targets to countries where they could be arrested.

What is even the point?

All we get in these discussions is an endless loop of whataboutisms.

Trump has been a massive failure on every front. We all knew he was emotionally, intellectually and temperamentally unfit for the office. Instead of waking up in the Oval and deciding that he was going to at least try and pretend to do the job, Trump just went about his clown act hellbent on destroying anything Obama ever did. It made no difference whether it was good or bad and so he's bumbled through 3 and half years of careening about from flower to flower trying to poison the plants Obama tried to nurture with not a care for the end result.

Trump's massive ego and lack of caring has this country on the verge of societal collapse and it has nothing to do with flags, abortions or black lives. It's just a giant narcissist being enabled by 35% of the nation. Conservativism doesn't even exist anymore or if it does, it's in hiding. All we have is Trump vs Sanity. Hopefully someday soon sanity prevails.

 

[SaintForLife]

What is even the point?

All we get in these discussions is an endless loop of whataboutisms.

Trump has been a massive failure on every front. We all knew he was emotionally, intellectually and temperamentally unfit for the office. Instead of waking up in the Oval and deciding that he was going to at least try and pretend to do the job, Trump just went about his clown act hellbent on destroying anything Obama ever did. It made no difference whether it was good or bad and so he's bumbled through 3 and half years of careening about from flower to flower trying to poison the plants Obama tried to nurture with not a care for the end result.

Trump's massive ego and lack of caring has this country on the verge of societal collapse and it has nothing to do with flags, abortions or black lives. It's just a giant narcissist being enabled by 35% of the nation. Conservativism doesn't even exist anymore or if it does, it's in hiding. All we have is Trump vs Sanity. Hopefully someday soon sanity prevails.

I think I understand now. We aren't supposed to discuss anything except Trump and pointing out similar examples from recent events or things that are hypocritical shouldn't be allowed?

It's quite ironic that you are complaining about whataboutisms and Trump in a thread about China.