2024 GOP Presidential Race (1 Viewer)

[SteveSBrickNJ]

Many of Trump's endorsed candidates did not do well on Nov. 8th.
*
Gov. Ron DeSantis DID do well.
He won convincingly.
Yet in this OP's opinion, Donald Trump is an egomaniac who is seemingly incapable of putting "Party over Self"
Trump has ZERO chance of being elected our next president.
In my opinion, if Trump would just shut up and go away (fat chance of that)...but "if" Trump did that, Gov. Ron DeSantis would have a CHANCE to be a formidable candidate for President in 2024.
Here is an interesting article on this topic...

Donald Trump warns Ron DeSantis against 2024 presidential bid as Republican rising star wins big

www.scotsman.com

*
*
What do any of you think re. Trump vs DeSantis?

 

[Optimus Prime]

Chris Christie could enter 2024 race for president in a matter of days

Former Trump ally is now a vocal critic of twice-impeached GOP frontrunner

www.independent.co.uk

 

[MT15]

Thought this was interesting.

 

[Taurus]

Their views on abortion have hard-lined on abortion in the sense they supported it, but as a last-resort, and rarely. Over the past 15 years, there’s been a growing number of feminists, women rights activists that have become more strident, and uncompromising in pushing their views and attitudes on those with opposing views and accusing them of being sexist, misogynists if they disagree. You likely support their more open stridency, but it has turned more then a few people off who are or might’ve been pro-choice but dont wear it on their sleeves.

40-45 years ago, more national Dems supported the death penalty then they do now, especially in rural Southern states where 45 years ago in Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia Democrats controlled the state legislatures and often elected governors. Same thing as it relates for gun control.

Bernie proudly went to Castro’s Cuba and praised people waiting in long lines for food, other major essential items because it fostered “equality”. He praised left-wing, corrupt, authoritarian regimes in Venezuela, Argentina, Ecuador, countries that used to have enormous oil/natural gas wealth, functional democracies but whom were ruined by populist demogagues like Chavez, whose country is now almost the Zimbabwe of Latin America. He had to almost be brow-beaten to criticize their undemocratic tendencies, nationalizations, and undermining of civil liberties by reporters, analysts and even then he somewhat hesitated with Wolf Blitzer on CNN.

Bernie has an idealistic, romanticized, not always realistic view of “social democratic” market economies of Scandinavian countries. It took decades, and quite a bit of trial and error to make many of those economies seem so seem less, efficient, and highly effective that I’m not sure Bernie realizes just how difficult it is to maintain those high rates of effectiveness that he almost magically assumes can be achieved so easily here.

You can't compare the Democratic Party or the Republican Party of pre-Nixon with what they are now. They've almost completely switched sides.

Eisenhower's platform in '56

Our great President Dwight D. Eisenhower has counseled us further: "In all those things which deal with people, be liberal, be human. In all those things which deal with people's money, or their economy, or their form of government, be conservative."

While jealously guarding the free institutions and preserving the principles upon which our Republic was founded and has flourished, the purpose of the Republican Party is to establish and maintain a peaceful world and build at home a dynamic prosperity in which every citizen fairly shares.

We shall ever build anew, that our children and their children, without distinction because of race, creed or color, may know the blessings of our free land.

We believe that basic to governmental integrity are unimpeachable ethical standards and irreproachable personal conduct by all people in government. We shall continue our insistence on honesty as an indispensable requirement of public service. We shall continue to root out corruption whenever and wherever it appears.

We are proud of and shall continue our far-reaching and sound advances in matters of basic human needs—expansion of social security—broadened coverage in unemployment insurance —improved housing—and better health protection for all our people. We are determined that our government remain warmly responsive to the urgent social and economic problems of our people.

 

[Saintman2884]

Those are all social issues the nation as a whole has moved to the left as well, if polls are to be believed. Democrats have just kept pace with the majority. A lot of that has to also do with more with people leaving religion as well. No matter how much Christian and Republicans want to stuff that back in the proverbial box Christianity and oppression, it's not going to happen.

Now compare today's Republicans and the extremity of their positions to 20 years ago. It's undeniable worse.

It sounds like you’re side-stepping the questions and moving the goalposts back, and actually support for abortion 40 years ago was greater than it is now. Some Democrats haven’t just kept pace with the majority, they’ve pushed or advocated for ideas related to these issues even more to the left. Back in the early 80’s, the notion of overturning Roe v. Wade would’ve seemed unthinkable. You didn’t answer my original questions about why once-solid blue states like Alabama, Mississippi, Texas have gone blood-red over the course of a generation and why is it Dems lost rural American heartlands? You got it half-right, certain parts of the country have moved to the left, but not the South or parts of the Midwest.

Actually, it’s been more the decline of “nominal” Christians thats been noteworthy over the past 35-40 years, and it’s not been just Christianity that’s been effected, it’s affected Judaism, Islam. BTW, Handmaid’s Tale focusing on dangers of future, authoritarian, fundamentalist Christian theocracy? I’m down with that, as long as they make ones about radical Islam destroying once moderate ME countries like Iran, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Erdogan’s Turkey, let’s see a Haidmaid’s Tale TV series about Sharia law being imposed and dangers on radical Islam affecting gays, trans people, minorities, Jews, let’s see if that’s shown on Hulu, Showtime, without being labeled “Islamophobe”, remember Bill Maher’s little spiel in 2014 and how PC police shout him down with Ben Affleck? Charlie Hebdo? If fundamentalist Christianity can take some deserved shots on the chin and take it, then let’s see radical, fundamentalist Islam hear the shouting from same people and hope they won’t be afraid of being called “Islamaphobes”.

 

[J-DONK]

It sounds like you’re side-stepping the questions and moving the goalposts back, and actually support for abortion 40 years ago was greater than it is now.

I don't like the way this is worded. Is is true? Yes. Are we talking about single digit percentage points? Yup.

Also, I have no idea what the margin of error on decade's long polling on this issue like Gallup would be. My guess is it's getting close to these single digits percentage points.

It's also true to say the support for outright banning abortion is at all time lows.

There is also polling that shows a remarkably jump in support for Abortion once all the red states started enacting their trigger bans.

Support for abortion rights has grown in spite of bans and restrictions, poll shows

A growing number of Americans -- 34 percent -- think abortion should be allowed at least up until the first six months of pregnancy, if not throughout the entire pregnancy, according to this latest PBS NewsHour/NPR/Marist poll. That support has more than doubled over less than two decades.

www.pbs.org

A second article from Gallup echoing the same sentiment about Abortion support.

Record-High 47% in U.S. Think Abortion Is Morally Acceptable

A record-high 47% of U.S. adults think abortion is morally acceptable, while 46% believe it is morally wrong. U.S. adults are also split in their self-identification as "pro-life" or "pro-choice."

news.gallup.com

 

[Saintman2884]

I don't like the way this is worded. Is is true? Yes. Are we talking about single digit percentage points? Yup.

Also, I have no idea what the margin of error on decade's long polling on this issue like Gallup would be. My guess is it's getting close to these single digits percentage points.

It's also true to say the support for outright banning abortion is at all time lows.

There is also polling that shows a remarkably jump in support for Abortion once all the red states started enacting their trigger bans.

Support for abortion rights has grown in spite of bans and restrictions, poll shows

A growing number of Americans -- 34 percent -- think abortion should be allowed at least up until the first six months of pregnancy, if not throughout the entire pregnancy, according to this latest PBS NewsHour/NPR/Marist poll. That support has more than doubled over less than two decades.

www.pbs.org

A second article from Gallup echoing the same sentiment about Abortion support.

Record-High 47% in U.S. Think Abortion Is Morally Acceptable

A record-high 47% of U.S. adults think abortion is morally acceptable, while 46% believe it is morally wrong. U.S. adults are also split in their self-identification as "pro-life" or "pro-choice."

news.gallup.com

The second paragraph only confirms that the country is morally and ethically split on the morality of abortion, not that the overwhelming majority of Americans feel it’s right or acceptable. It’s always been a hot-button issue, just compared to 40 years ago, most pro-life politicians, activists if they had been asked, would have said that realistically from a legal standpoint, there was no feasible, short-or-long term possibility of overturning Roe v. Wade. Most pro-life organizations were singing a similar tune even after the Tea Party faction emerged and helped GOP take back the House in the 2010 midterms.

 

[Taurus]

It sounds like you’re side-stepping the questions and moving the goalposts back, and actually support for abortion 40 years ago was greater than it is now. Some Democrats haven’t just kept pace with the majority, they’ve pushed or advocated for ideas related to these issues even more to the left. Back in the early 80’s, the notion of overturning Roe v. Wade would’ve seemed unthinkable. You didn’t answer my original questions about why once-solid blue states like Alabama, Mississippi, Texas have gone blood-red over the course of a generation and why is it Dems lost rural American heartlands? You got it half-right, certain parts of the country have moved to the left, but not the South or parts of the Midwest.

See: Strategy, Southern.

The South didn't change, the Republican Party did.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

Don't worry. I don't need a travel advisory. Made my decision a long time ago...

‘Beware, your life is not valued’: NAACP travel advisory warns Florida is ‘openly hostile toward African Americans’ | CNN

Another advocacy group is warning people of color about traveling to Florida.

www.cnn.com

 

[Saintman2884]

Those are all social issues the nation as a whole has moved to the left as well, if polls are to be believed. Democrats have just kept pace with the majority. A lot of that has to also do with more with people leaving religion as well. No matter how much Christian and Republicans want to stuff that back in the proverbial box Christianity and oppression, it's not going to happen.

Now compare today's Republicans and the extremity of their positions to 20 years ago. It's undeniable worse.

Trump is a isolationist compared to Bush and Cheney illegally manipulating false intelligence and using(and cheapening worldwide sympathy after 9/11 attacks) to start an unnecessary war, claiming a nation had weapons of mass destruction when they really didn’t and damaged nation’s image, integrity, and economy. If being a bit more isolationist or non-interventionist regarding using military troops in trouble spots opposed to starting wars like Bush and Cheney did, then they’re not as bad on that front. They may have become authoritarian in other issues, but GOP philosophy towards foreign policy is far more non-interventionist. In terms of pot legislation, there have been some red states who have de-criminalized, legalized it for medicinal purposes, or support outright legislation. Former Speaker Boehner actually runs a marijuana company and more Republicans support legalizing pot due to the money that could be made from taxing it then 20 years ago.

 

[Saintman2884]

Don't worry. I don't need a travel advisory. Made my decision a long time ago...

‘Beware, your life is not valued’: NAACP travel advisory warns Florida is ‘openly hostile toward African Americans’ | CNN

Another advocacy group is warning people of color about traveling to Florida.

www.cnn.com

They also issued a travel advisory about 10-15 years ago against the state of Mississippi just because they didn’t get rid of the Confederate emblem on the state flag and by contrast, seems minuscule to what’s been going on in Florida under DeSantis. In fact, what he’s done is dramatically far worse, by comparison.

IIRC, I believed the state of Mississippi has changed their state’s emblem since then. If they haven’t, please correct me.

 

[MT15]

The second paragraph only confirms that the country is morally and ethically split on the morality of abortion, not that the overwhelming majority of Americans feel it’s right or acceptable. It’s always been a hot-button issue, just compared to 40 years ago, most pro-life politicians, activists if they had been asked, would have said that realistically from a legal standpoint, there was no feasible, short-or-long term possibility of overturning Roe v. Wade. Most pro-life organizations were singing a similar tune even after the Tea Party faction emerged and helped GOP take back the House in the 2010 midterms.

Evangelical churches supported Roe when it was enacted. They are the ones who have moved their stance.

And yes, the majority of Americans feel that abortion is right and acceptable. They especially don’t want the government interfering with women’s health care. I don’t care what one poll says. Look at the voting in states where they’ve allowed referendums.

When you don’t know a whole lot about the subject of women’s health care and why abortions can be critical to women’s health, maybe don’t opine so definitely about it.

There is a reason women are saying that abortion is health care. Because it is. And Rs, evangelicals and Catholics are taking a sledgehammer to women’s reproductive healthcare that will and is causing untold heartache, and real physical damage. It’s just a matter of time before we find out about the deaths that result from these laws.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

There is a reason women are saying that abortion is health care. Because it is. And Rs, evangelicals and Catholics are taking a sledgehammer to women’s reproductive healthcare that will and is causing untold heartache, and real physical damage. It’s just a matter of time before we find out about the deaths that result from these laws.

For the record, this Catholic isn't...

 

[MT15]

For the record, this Catholic isn't...

Oh I’m well aware, and I appreciate it. It’s the church’s stance though.

 

[Saintman2884]

Evangelical churches supported Roe when it was enacted. They are the ones who have moved their stance.

And yes, the majority of Americans feel that abortion is right and acceptable. They especially don’t want the government interfering with women’s health care. I don’t care what one poll says. Look at the voting in states where they’ve allowed referendums.

When you don’t know a whole lot about the subject of women’s health care and why abortions can be critical to women’s health, maybe don’t opine so definitely about it.

There is a reason women are saying that abortion is health care. Because it is. And Rs, evangelicals and Catholics are taking a sledgehammer to women’s reproductive healthcare that will and is causing untold heartache, and real physical damage. It’s just a matter of time before we find out about the deaths that result from these laws.

You question a poll’s findings because it doesn’t support your reasoning or beliefs? Can’t say that’s sounds very open-minded or sounds like a wise strategy.

Evangelicals changed due to the Moral Majority, Jerry Falwell and the rise of religious right in the late 1970’s and honestly, most liberals ignored and didn’t take them seriously. Jimmy Carter’s less-than-stellar, flawed presidency didn’t help either (stagflation, OPEC oil shocks, long gas lines, Operation Eagle Claw failed hostage rescue operation in the Iranian desert and made us look weak and ineffective), crazy thing about Operation Eagle Claw is that he didn’t tell his Secretary of State, Cyrus Vance about it because he knew he’d object.

 

[Saintman2884]

See: Strategy, Southern.

The South didn't change, the Republican Party did.

That still doesn’t mean my point about certain parts of the nation moving to the left on certain issues, not the whole, is incorrect, either? That also applies for certain parts of the Midwest like Indiana, Ohio, parts of Wisconsin, Michigan, etc.

BTW, LBJ and the Democrats unwittingly or knowingly wielded it to them as LBJ told one of his WH aides, Bill Moyers, the night before signing the 1964 Civil Rights Act that they, the Democrats, are signing away the South and they’ll never get it back. He shouldn’t have been too surprised then if a morally and politically vulgar opportunist like Nixon wouldn’t take advantage and jump on it.

 

[MT15]

You question a poll’s findings because it doesn’t support your reasoning or beliefs? Can’t say that’s sounds very open-minded or sounds like a wise strategy.

Evangelicals changed due to the Moral Majority, Jerry Falwell and the rise of religious right in the late 1970’s and honestly, most liberals ignored and didn’t take them seriously. Jimmy Carter’s less-than-stellar, flawed presidency didn’t help either (stagflation, OPEC oil shocks, long gas lines, Operation Eagle Claw failed hostage rescue operation in the Iranian desert and made us look weak and ineffective), crazy thing about Operation Eagle Claw is that he didn’t tell his Secretary of State, Cyrus Vance about it because he knew he’d object.

When a poll appears to be an outlier, it should be questioned.

Let me try this again: what do you think better represents the will of the people, a poll or the actual results of voters who are voting in referendums on abortion rights?

But do go on telling me what I am, because you don’t agree with me and then chiding me for pointing out facts to you.

 

[superchuck500]

Well, this thread

 

[coldseat]

It sounds like you’re side-stepping the questions and moving the goalposts back, and actually support for abortion 40 years ago was greater than it is now. Some Democrats haven’t just kept pace with the majority, they’ve pushed or advocated for ideas related to these issues even more to the left. Back in the early 80’s, the notion of overturning Roe v. Wade would’ve seemed unthinkable.

The Democrats position on abortion has been the same for the last 40 years, that abortions should be safe and legal and that woman should have bodily autonomy to make their own choice. Given that this exactly what most voters vote for when given the chance (even many Republicans), I don't see how their position has gotten more extreme.

We were all assured up until 2016 that there was no way Roy v. Wade would be overturned. But then Trump became president, the conservatives justices on the SC all lied during their Senate confirmation hearing, and with McConnel's unethical power grab Lenard Leo and his Federalist Societies 40 year plan became reality. Yay, Republicans!

You didn’t answer my original questions about why once-solid blue states like Alabama, Mississippi, Texas have gone blood-red over the course of a generation and why is it Dems lost rural American heartlands? You got it half-right, certain parts of the country have moved to the left, but not the South or parts of the Midwest.

Because you already know why. The Southern strategy. Republicans played on Southerners racist attitudes for power and succeeded in turning the south into a Republican stronghold. They also succeeded in turning us into a more racist society. Yay, Republicans again!

Actually, it’s been more the decline of “nominal” Christians thats been noteworthy over the past 35-40 years, and it’s not been just Christianity that’s been effected, it’s affected Judaism, Islam. BTW, Handmaid’s Tale focusing on dangers of future, authoritarian, fundamentalist Christian theocracy? I’m down with that, as long as they make ones about radical Islam destroying once moderate ME countries like Iran, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Erdogan’s Turkey, let’s see a Haidmaid’s Tale TV series about Sharia law being imposed and dangers on radical Islam affecting gays, trans people, minorities, Jews, let’s see if that’s shown on Hulu, Showtime, without being labeled “Islamophobe”, remember Bill Maher’s little spiel in 2014 and how PC police shout him down with Ben Affleck? Charlie Hebdo? If fundamentalist Christianity can take some deserved shots on the chin and take it, then let’s see radical, fundamentalist Islam hear the shouting from same people and hope they won’t be afraid of being called “Islamaphobes”.

Not sure what this has to do with anything, but if you're looking at me to defend the extremes of other religions, you're barking up the wrong tree. They all have the same problems, it's just Christianity's extremes are much more present in US society and more detrimental here. That's why there's a focus on it.