Tucker Carlson really really likes Russia (1 Viewer)

MT15 said:

We see folks on the right either excusing Russia’s attempts to sway our last Presidential election, or downplaying the same. We see pundits like Carlson openly take Russia’s side over Ukraine, who is our ally, we hear reports that Trump has said Ukraine isn’t a real country (which is straight from Putin’s mouth) and we have congressmen pushing conspiracy theories originating from Russia.

It‘s hard to know for sure how much difference Russia’s efforts actually made in the election of Trump. An argument can be made for the gamut of not much difference to the whole enchilada since the margin of victory was razor thin. But to dismiss the possibility as nothing is reckless, imo. To actually excuse the efforts is much worse, especially when we read that Russian hackers breached nearly all state election systems to some level.

I‘m still perplexed about why folks on the right want to act like Russia is no big deal, and play up China. They’re both problems, for different reasons. It’s disconcerting.

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Yes, it is much more believable that half the country is a Russian spys and treasonous Russian sympathizers.
I know I don't dismiss Russia as a threat, although I don't rank them as the top threat. I also don't think they are so good at what they do that America actually elected a Russia plant as president. To me, in my opinion that is paranoid, and exactly what a political enemy, Russia, wants. It appears to me that some just believe whatever they are told as long as on the other end is Trump in a mink coat eating Russian cavier and drinking vodka. That is the disconcerting part to me.

It’d be nice to have a real discussion rather than you just making up what nobody ever said. Your first sentence is insulting and a complete straw man.

Meantime we have had someone in this thread who excused Russia’s actions and someone else who diminished it.

I just don’t get why.

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MT15 said:

It’d be nice to have a real discussion rather than you just making up what nobody ever said. Your first sentence is insulting and a complete straw man.

Meantime we have had someone in this thread who excused Russia’s actions and someone else who diminished it.

I just don’t get why.

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LOL. And you are giving thumbs p to people who personally insult other posters. Don't act like you have some high ground on "real discussions."

What I honestly find entertaining is back when Obama was president the right and republicans who were the ones skeptical about Russia and democrats and the left were supportive. Remember the accidental open mic moment with Obama and Medvedev and later the reset button thing with Clinton? Republicans lost their mind over the open mic.

Now that Trump is president, roles have been reversed.

buzd said:

[MOD EDIT: Let's try to avoid anything that could be considered insulting to the poster and not just to their opinion. LameDuck]

Currently, Russia has American politicians parroting Russian farmed talking points (Crowdstrike server, Ukraine's involvement, etc).

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Why is that Russian "framed"? What does that even mean?
I agree, Trump looks ridiculous going on tv and talking about Ukraine having the DNC server or whatever it actually is he is saying. But that doesn;t mean he is a Russian stooge or whatnot.
Rather, what is far more likely is the given that the politics in the nation have tried to make the Russian issue a reason to question the legitimacy of his PResidency he has adopted weird theories. That's not an excuse for such stupidity, just that the idea of some sort of Russian influence strikes me as ridiculous.

buzd said:

Russia convinced the President to reveal classified Israeli information in the oval office.

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And?????
He has done that on several other occasions as well - occasions that had nothing to do with Russia.

buzd said:

Russia offered dirt to Don Jr (et al) in the Trump tower proffer.

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The meeting with the Russian ambassador that the Mueller REport described as "brief, public and nonsubstantive"?

buzd said:

Russia passed notification of hacked DNC emails through Roger Stone.

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And? Weren;t the Russians hacking long before Trump even entered the PResidential race?

buzd said:

Pro-Russia corrupt Ukrainians had Paul Manafort on their payroll.

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The Mueller REport found no coordination between Trump, his campaign, and the Russians. So - what is the point?

buzd said:

After a meeting with Putin where there were no note takers, Trump got on stage and disavowed the findings of all his intelligence agencies.
Manafort passed polling information to an oligarch known to be affiliated with Russian intelligence (hence "micro-targeting" on social media.

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Just like with the spilling of confidential information - does not seem out of character with Trump in areas not involving Russia. In any case - what is the result of this that says there is some monumental Russian influence that is an existential threat to our democracy?

Manafort passed polling information to an oligarch known to be affiliated with Russian intelligence (hence "micro-targeting" on social media.


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TheRealTruth said:

What I honestly find entertaining is back when Obama was president the right and republicans who were the ones skeptical about Russia and democrats and the left were supportive. Remember the accidental open mic moment with Obama and Medvedev and later the reset button thing with Clinton? Republicans lost their mind over the open mic.

Now that Trump is president, roles have been reversed.

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I agree completely with this. Good point and I also find it entertaining.

MT15 said:

No the other guy was laughing, Carlson wasn’t.

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Did you actually watch the video that was posted here? Carlson was laughing and his guest even said I know you think this is funny.

MT15 said:

It’d be nice to have a real discussion rather than you just making up what nobody ever said. Your first sentence is insulting and a complete straw man.

Meantime we have had someone in this thread who excused Russia’s actions and someone else who diminished it.

I just don’t get why.

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You honestly took offense on a personal level to my first sentence? If so, then I am sorry. I didn't think what I said would be taken personally by anyone on here.
As far as no one ever said anything like that, have a look at your thread in the mudpit

MT15 said:

I don’t get your question. Sure Russia meddles in other countries’ elections. More or less than ours? I don’t know and don’t really care. Oh, now I get it, it‘s the “two wrongs make it all right” defense.

That’s a really weak defense, btw. A. We don’t know that the US has interfered in other countries’ elections to the level that Russia is currently interfering in ours. And B. That doesn’t make it right. Why would any American defend Russia’s election interference? It’s pretty astounding, actually.

Carlson thinks the Russian angle is a hoax, against everything that the US intelligence community has discovered. Then again, Carlson thinks white supremacy is a hoax as well. He’s an idiot.

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The US interferes in more elections than any other country and it's not even close. Not only do we interfere in elections, but we also push for regime change, invade other countries and remove their leaders by force. Stating that doesn't excuse Russia meddling our elections. It just means that most countries do it so we shouldn't act like it doesn't happen often. We should do everything we can to protect our elections and stop other countries from trying to interfere in our elections. The hypocrisy is overwhelming from many on this subject in acting as if Russia's interference was an act of war while ignoring or refusing to acknowledge that we are the King of election interference.



I don't see many reasonable people saying that Russia's interference had no effect on our election. The media and the left greatly exaggerated the effect because it allows them to ignore how they lost to someone like Trump. Most people who claim the Russian angle is a hoax are talking about that Trump conspired with Russia to affect the election. They aren't saying that its a hoax that Russia interfered in our election, but many people like to conflate those two things.

JimEverett said:

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LOL. And you are giving thumbs p to people who personally insult other posters. Don't act like you have some high ground on "real discussions."

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well, Jim, sometimes I think something is in good fun and don’t realize it might be considered not so benign by others. It’s not my intent to be insulting. I do try to converse in good faith. It’s frustrating to ask a genuine question and get the kind of response Farb gave.

I will drop the subject since it’s obvious that I’m not going to get any sort of forthright discussion. It is still a genuine mystery to me though.

SaintForLife said:

The US interferes in more elections than any other country and it's not even close. Not only do we interfere in elections, but we also push for regime change, invade other countries and remove their leaders by force. Stating that doesn't excuse Russia meddling our elections. It just means that most countries do it so we shouldn't act like it doesn't happen often. We should do everything we can to protect our elections and stop other countries from trying to interfere in our elections. The hypocrisy is overwhelming from many on this subject in acting as if Russia's interference was an act of war while ignoring or refusing to acknowledge that we are the King of election interference.

Foreign electoral intervention - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I don't see many reasonable people saying that Russia's interference had no effect on our election. The media and the left greatly exaggerated the effect because it allows them to ignore how they lost to someone like Trump. Most people who claim the Russian angle is a hoax are talking about that Trump conspired with Russia to affect the election. They aren't saying that its a hoax that Russia interfered in our election, but many people like to conflate those two things.

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Taking the last 1st, the conclusion of the mueller report plays out 2 options:
1. Trumps people went behind his back to collude with Russia to E-ffect the election
2. Trumps people did it with his knowledge/ok
Stated more plainly, trump is either stupid or corrupt- which would you rather?
most of us are saying ‘neither’
both are sufficient reasons for him to be removed from office

As to the 1st part - yes, agreed, US has done some ****** up ****
Most of our problems at the southern border are the direct result of our propping up right wing despots who would let our corporations do whatever
Similar issue n ME with us playing from the UK empire playbook
In all instances our impulse should have been to help the people get to self rule and to tell our corporations to **** off

When China tells us we can’t lecture them about civil rights bc of our racism/sexism/homophobia, our impulse shouldn’t be “fair play, you got us”, it should be to live up to the liberal ideals of our founding and to avoid rank tyranny

SaintForLife said:

The US interferes in more elections than any other country and it's not even close. Not only do we interfere in elections, but we also push for regime change, invade other countries and remove their leaders by force. Stating that doesn't excuse Russia meddling our elections. It just means that most countries do it so we shouldn't act like it doesn't happen often. We should do everything we can to protect our elections and stop other countries from trying to interfere in our elections. The hypocrisy is overwhelming from many on this subject in acting as if Russia's interference was an act of war while ignoring or refusing to acknowledge that we are the King of election interference.

Foreign electoral intervention - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I don't see many reasonable people saying that Russia's interference had no effect on our election. The media and the left greatly exaggerated the effect because it allows them to ignore how they lost to someone like Trump. Most people who claim the Russian angle is a hoax are talking about that Trump conspired with Russia to affect the election. They aren't saying that its a hoax that Russia interfered in our election, but many people like to conflate those two things.

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Thanks for this. I feel better about your take now. Earlier it came across that we should just accept the Russian crap because we do it too. I think we need to vigorously try to get them to stop it. I also would want us to stop interfering ourselves.

We will just have to agree to disagree on Trump’s weirdness about Russia. I think he is a stooge in the sense that he acts like Putin, Kim Jong Un and Xi are his new best buds when any one of them would put a knife in his neck if they thought they could get away with it.

Farb said:

You honestly took offense on a personal level to my first sentence? If so, then I am sorry. I didn't think what I said would be taken personally by anyone on here.
As far as no one ever said anything like that, have a look at your thread in the mudpit

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No not insulting on a personal level, but just arrogant and dismissive to anyone who doesn’t hold your POV. I was honestly perplexed. After SaintsForLife’s post I feel a bit better.

I still wish congressional Rs would not parrot crazy conspiracy theories that Trump is pushing.

The biggest benefit to Putin from the disinformation campaign in 2016 has been the Trump/Russia collusion investigation and the Ukraine Impeachment inquiry.

If the investigation had been focused on Russian interference and not the pipe dream of collusion, Putin would have seconds thoughts about investing in such operations.

However, his return on investment has been incredible. Easily the most successful disinformation campaign in history. He will certainly be riding this wave as far as it will go.

As an added bonus, the constant media focus on Russia gives him plenty of opportunity to present the United States as the enemy to his own people, which he is doing on a daily basis.

While I am certainly not suggesting we should never investigate possible malfeasance, we certainly should not engage in it for spurious and obviously political purposes because of a refusal to accept the results of our own elections.

If the Democrat party had any interest other than self-interest, they would be ashamed of what they have been doing for three years now.

Archies Ghost said:

The biggest benefit to Putin from the disinformation campaign in 2016 has been the Trump/Russia collusion investigation and the Ukraine Impeachment inquiry.

If the investigation had been focused on Russian interference and not the pipe dream of collusion, Putin would have seconds thoughts about investing in such operations.

However, his return on investment has been incredible. Easily the most successful disinformation campaign in history. He will certainly be riding this wave as far as it will go.

As an added bonus, the constant media focus on Russia gives him plenty of opportunity to present the United States as the enemy to his own people, which he is doing on a daily basis.

While I am certainly not suggesting we should never investigate possible malfeasance, we certainly should not engage in it for spurious and obviously political purposes because of a refusal to accept the results of our own elections.

If the Democrat party had any interest other than self-interest, they would be ashamed of what they have been doing for three years now.

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Collusion was proven
What could not be proven was a direct Trump connection
But now with evidence coming out that trump (or his lawyers) lied in his written remarks to mueller- this might still be in play

Also the biggest Putin benefit was getting the sanctions dropped
Ukraine being denied aid would have been another, but here we are

Archie, it’s the Democratic Party. Don’t play semantic games. You must know that Trump uses your phrase as a slur.

Secondly, please quit with the idea that the Mueller investigation was a democratic ploy. It’s patently false. It was a Republican construct from beginning to end.

MT15 said:

Archie, it’s the Democratic Party. Don’t play semantic games. You must know that Trump uses your phrase as a slur.

Secondly, please quit with the idea that the Mueller investigation was a democratic ploy. It’s patently false. It was a Republican construct from beginning to end.

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How so was it a Repub construct? If I am understanding you correctly, I have not heard this before and I am curious on this.

Farb said:

How so was it a Repub construct? If I am understanding you correctly, I have not heard this before and I am curious on this.

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Republican and Trump appointee Rod Rosenstein appointed Mueller as special counsel following Trump's firing of Comey.