2024 GOP Presidential Race (3 Viewers)

Snarky Sack said:

The upper levels were the Obama-appointees, and the mid-level were the entrenched bureaucrats.

Trumps mistake was thinking he could appoint one or two key people and they would take care of the rest. But they were Republicans, so - as I was discussing in another thread - they compromised until the other side had all that they wanted.

Republicans compromise like the French surrender: immediately and unconditionally.

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You sure like revisionist history. Trump appointed who he wanted, there was no “compromise”. He was perfectly free to make all his appointments, he just was either too lazy or too controlling to do so. It had nothing to do with the democrats at all.

MT15 said:

You really have zero clue what you are talking about here. Dave knows a lot about the civil service, and you are completely off base.

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Dave?

I was replying to a poster called "coldseat."

Why, MT15 . . . what are you saying?

Snarky Sack said:

Dave?

I was replying to a poster called "coldseat."

Why, MT15 . . . what are you saying?

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That Dave knows all about the civil service, and it is clear you do not. Dave knows a lot more than me, for sure. You seem to think that appointments that Obama made stayed on after Trump’s inauguration and I don’t think that’s true with very few exceptions which tend to be non-partisan (FBI head comes to mind). Almost all political appointees automatically tender their resignation on Inauguration Day. A civil servant from the department would be “acting” I suppose, until the new President gets his own appointees in place. Dave will know for sure. Civil servants are not political appointees and most of the time they serve whichever party is in power. They provide a great service by ensuring some institutional continuity and safeguarding ethical considerations.

Trump’s idea of politicizing the civil service is a terrible idea. Stupendously bad. Imagine departments that provide valuable services to the public being put through a complete purge every time the presidency changes hands. Imagine how easy corruption would become if every civil servant‘s job depended on the whim of the POTUS.

If you think you’re being cute about alter identities again, I don’t know how many times you have to be told about the rules around here. Also, it’s weird that you think you are having a conversation with only one person at a time on a message board. If you want private conversations that nobody else can comment on - this ain’t it. Anybody can answer any post that is made, for cripe’s sake.

Par for the course for Haley…

Snarky Sack said:

The upper levels were the Obama-appointees, and the mid-level were the entrenched bureaucrats.

Trumps mistake was thinking he could appoint one or two key people and they would take care of the rest. But they were Republicans, so - as I was discussing in another thread - they compromised until the other side had all that they wanted.

Republicans compromise like the French surrender: immediately and unconditionally.

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You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about regarding those who work in the government.

There are political appointments and there are bureaucrats, but they make up a very small percentage of the government. There are about 2 million federal employees, and less than 10,000 are executive level or bureaucratic positions and there are about 4,000 politically appointed positions, around 1200 of those require Senate confirmation. The politically appointed positions do change frequently between administrations, and executive level positions do have some turnover, but not near as much, and most have served across multiple administrations.

The vast, vast majority of the 2 million federal employees are there pursuing their careers and are not involved in doing politically sensitive work.

No President is going to come in and radically change the federal workforce, nor should they need to.

Your vitriol for the federal government and workforce is really short-sighted and while I think some criticism is warranted, I think most agencies have an important role and do much needed work to keep our country united, cared for and safe. I'm sick of people trying to unjustifiably tear it down.

DaveXA said:

Your vitriol for the federal government and workforce is really short-sighted and while I think some criticism is warranted, I think most agencies have an important role and do much needed work to keep our country united, cared for and safe. I'm sick of people trying to unjustifiably tear it down.

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Yeah. My mother used to work as a clerk for the USDA. I know you and others here work or have worked within the government. His insults about government workers are insults about people he's talking to here. I don't think he cares.

This DeSantis vs Trump article fits nicely within the framework of this thread...
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DaveXA said:

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about regarding those who work in the government.

There are political appointments and there are bureaucrats, but they make up a very small percentage of the government. There are about 2 million federal employees, and less than 10,000 are executive level or bureaucratic positions and there are about 4,000 politically appointed positions, around 1200 of those require Senate confirmation. The politically appointed positions do change frequently between administrations, and executive level positions do have some turnover, but not near as much, and most have served across multiple administrations.

The vast, vast majority of the 2 million federal employees are there pursuing their careers and are not involved in doing politically sensitive work.

No President is going to come in and radically change the federal workforce, nor should they need to.

Your vitriol for the federal government and workforce is really short-sighted and while I think some criticism is warranted, I think most agencies have an important role and do much needed work to keep our country united, cared for and safe. I'm sick of people trying to unjustifiably tear it down.

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So you see* the entrenched bureaucracy as an independent branch of government, outside the constitution, but empowered by and thus entitled by the Civil Service laws to interpret what is and is not official U.S. policy?

Yes, I'm putting words in your mouth. Why should I be the only one who doesn't do that?

MT15 said:

That Dave knows all about the civil service, and it is clear you do not. Dave knows a lot more than me, for sure. You seem to think that appointments that Obama made stayed on after Trump’s inauguration and I don’t think that’s true with very few exceptions which tend to be non-partisan (FBI head comes to mind). Almost all political appointees automatically tender their resignation on Inauguration Day. A civil servant from the department would be “acting” I suppose, until the new President gets his own appointees in place. Dave will know for sure. Civil servants are not political appointees and most of the time they serve whichever party is in power. They provide a great service by ensuring some institutional continuity and safeguarding ethical considerations.

Trump’s idea of politicizing the civil service is a terrible idea. Stupendously bad. Imagine departments that provide valuable services to the public being put through a complete purge every time the presidency changes hands. Imagine how easy corruption would become if every civil servant‘s job depended on the whim of the POTUS.

If you think you’re being cute about alter identities again, I don’t know how many times you have to be told about the rules around here. Also, it’s weird that you think you are having a conversation with only one person at a time on a message board. If you want private conversations that nobody else can comment on - this ain’t it. Anybody can answer any post that is made, for cripe’s sake.

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So you did not mean to imply that Dave and coldseat are the same person?

If they are, I don't care in the slightest.

Snarky Sack said:

So you did not mean to imply that Dave and coldseat are the same person?

If they are, I don't care in the slightest.

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You don’t really pay much attention to people around here, do you? If you did, you wouldn’t be constantly making this error.

I think you do care about alters or socks or whatever you want to call them, since you have consistently brought this up from almost the very first day you came here. Wonder why? (not that much, no need to come up with an answer).

Snarky Sack said:

So you see* the entrenched bureaucracy as an independent branch of government, outside the constitution, but empowered by and thus entitled by the Civil Service laws to interpret what is and is not official U.S. policy?

Yes, I'm putting words in your mouth. Why should I be the only one who doesn't do that?

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I didn't put a single word in your mouth. Keep making sheet up.

Snarky Sack said:

So you did not mean to imply that Dave and coldseat are the same person?

If they are, I don't care in the slightest.

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And you'd be wrong. What the hell is your problem? Grow up or gtfo.

from infoman on EE

Optimus Prime said:

from infoman on EE

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I mean, I can't figure out what emote to respond to this, lol. It's like Trump is from another planet or something.

DaveXA said:

And you'd be wrong. What the hell is your problem? Grow up or gtfo.

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You post in a very angry tone, Dave. Why is that?

Snarky Sack said:

You post in a very angry tone, Dave. Why is that?

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Because you're insulting our intelligence with some ridiculous responses. It's really that simple. You show disdain and disrespect for those who take their jobs seriously in the federal service, you refuse to acknowledge when you are wrong and you keep moving goal posts. Your posts come across as disingenuous and the claims of being willing to compromise are dubious at best.

I was a lifelong Republican before Trump descended from that escalator. Once Trump won the Republican nomination, I left the party and have been an independent since. I've grown tired of Trumpers justifying his idiotic behavior and clearly, his claim he could shoot someone on the street and not lose votes seemed dubious, but his sycophants eat it all up. I just don't get the obsession with his people believing his lies and embellishments.

So, I have a long litany of reasons I have little tolerance for people defending a guy who has admitted he grabs p*****, tears down anyone who doesn't agree with him, makes a mockery of our government and laws, shows disdain for people trying to do the right thing, has absolutely no integrity and on and on. He's a sheety human being. He doesn't deserve anyone's support, but his followers are gullible and believe everything he says even after being presented with concrete evidence. The truth doesn't matter for Trumpers.

If you can't see why I'm angry...I don't know what else to tell you.

You all are wasting your time and, more importantly, your energy by going back and forth with someone here who's not participating in good faith.

Trust me, I've only been observing and it's a waste.

DaveXA said:

I mean, I can't figure out what emote to respond to this, lol. It's like Trump is from another planet or something.

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facepalm. When in doubt, always facepalm lol