What happens to the Republican Party now? (1 Viewer)

[MT15]

This election nonsense by Trump may end up splitting up the Republican Party. I just don’t see how the one third (?) who are principled conservatives can stay in the same party with Trump sycophants who are willing to sign onto the TX Supreme Court case.

We also saw the alt right types chanting “destroy the GOP” in Washington today because they didn’t keep Trump in power. I think the Q types will also hold the same ill will toward the traditional Republican Party. In fact its quite possible that all the voters who are really in a Trump personality cult will also blame the GOP for his loss. It’s only a matter of time IMO before Trump himself gets around to blaming the GOP.

There is some discussion of this on Twitter. What do you all think?

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

2016 election and authoritarianism

 

[Booker]

A not insignificant portion of the Republican base is made up of Christian Dominionists, and authoritarian, autocratic rule is exactly what they want. With the understanding, of course, that the autocrat in power does what they want him to do.

An autocrat opposed to their preferences would of course be "tyranny" and justification for "2nd amendment" activities.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

In God We Trust: How American Christianity Became Republicanism - Harvard Political Review

For many Christians, right-wing partisanship is just as generational, inveterate, and cultural as religion itself.

harvardpolitics.com

"A more somber explanation for the development of the Christian Republicanism may rest, however, in discussions of race. There seems to be a general consensus amongst scholars that, in some significant capacity, race relations played a role in the alignment of White Christians with the Republican Party. Particularly in the South, where the population of White evangelicals is highest, Wenger and Dochuk state that the Republican fear of big government and support for the privatization of educational institutions took hold as a response to intervention measures undertaken by the state to racially integrate society. Even respecting tax policy, it’s possible that White Protestant Southerners in the late 20th century deplored the possibility of their tax dollars going to minority communities, leading to their espousal of fiscally “responsible” policies.

The transition of Christianity into Republicanism is, without a doubt, multifaceted, but deeper conversations regarding the potential involvement of race relations may also be necessary. In the words of Dochuk, “it’s about abortion, it’s about the culture wars of the 1970s, but it’s also about resisting the desegregation of schools in the South. This too is a part of the story of the rise of the … evangelical Republican self,” he says. “Yes, race needs to be recentered in our narratives and very much to a tragic degree.” Whatever the case, it is clear that the “wall of separation between Church and State” of which Thomas Jefferson and Roger Williams writes is perhaps only half-built, or is only a fence and not a wall at all. How can two ideologies that have existed and grown concomitantly for centuries ever be truly independent of one another?

One Nation Under God: The Persistence of the Politico-Religious Relationship

When Florida Representative Ted Yoho was called to the House floor to apologize for referring to Alexandria Ocasio Cortes as a “f—— b—-” on the steps of the Capitol, he instead turned to more religiously charged language, stating, “I will not apologize for my passion, or for loving my God, my family, or my country.” His words were surprising to many who could not imagine a version of God, Christian or otherwise, who would endorse such behavior, but statements like his are far from uncommon. It is easy, after all, to justify partisan animosities with the addition of a legitimizing reference to the Maker of the Universe. "

 

[DaveXA]

Authoritarianism is so much more nuanced than a simple definition.

Nobody comes out and says “I am an authoritarian and want to rule that way”.

They will, however, exhibit certain behaviors and carry out certain objectives. It’s helpful to learn to recognize these behaviors and objectives. Otherwise you can lose your democracy by the time you realize what is going on. It’s happened many times in other countries, which is where we can learn how to recognize an authoritarian and call out those tendencies. We need to do so here and now.

I look at it like this: maybe the Trump wing of the R party will fail, they will be disgraced and Rs who believe in democracy will prevail. But I‘m not counting on it. The normal Rs have just disappeared, with very few exceptions. Everyone needs to know how authoritarians take over democratic countries. It’s too important to just look away.

Well, I don't know how close we actually are to authoritarianism, but, that being said, as it's set up now, the only way I see that truly happening is if the Executive branch is given substantially more power than he has currently. He's not a dictator, and even if he wanted to be, I don't think Congress or even SCOTUS would allow that to happen. People said it would happen with Trump, and it didn't happen. Thankfully he left of his own accord even though he tried to stay in office through the attempted coup. Our system of checks and balances worked. I think it would work again whether it's Trump or anyone else.

I know some have little faith in out system, but I trust it and I think we can survive an authoritarian president even if less than ideal.

 

[Saintamaniac]

He's not a dictator, and even if he wanted to be, I don't think Congress or even SCOTUS would allow that to happen.

But the reality is that a Republican controlled congress WOULD have allowed it to happen. Republicans as the minority party almost made it happen. And even now, the SCOTUS, IMO, is compromised especially when you have the wife of one of them being an insurrectionist.

Our system of checks and balances worked.

I agree, it worked but only because the VP decided not to go along. If he had made a different decision, things would be considerably different today.

 

[brandon]

He's not a dictator, and even if he wanted to be, I don't think Congress or even SCOTUS would allow that to happen. People said it would happen with Trump, and it didn't happen. Thankfully he left of his own accord even though he tried to stay in office through the attempted coup. Our system of checks and balances worked. I think it would work again whether it's Trump or anyone else.

Man, this is just an incredibly naieve take in 2022.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

I know some have little faith in out system, but I trust it and I think we can survive an authoritarian president even if less than ideal.

I'm not even sure we've survived Trump yet.

 

[MT15]

But the reality is that a Republican controlled congress WOULD have allowed it to happen. Republicans as the minority party almost made it happen. And even now, the SCOTUS, IMO, is compromised especially when you have the wife of one of them being an insurrectionist.

I agree, it worked but only because the VP decided not to go along. If he had made a different decision, things would be considerably different today.

Agree. There were a few, very few, people in strategic places who did the right thing. Pence, Raffensperger, Kemp, the gov of AZ, that precinct person in MI. And Trumpists have gone to work replacing them with people who won’t stand in the way next time. It was too close for comfort.

I disagree that the system worked properly. A properly working democracy would have removed Trump at the first impeachment. Or even before that by the 25th Amendment route.

I have been dismayed at how poorly we were protected from Trump. We had to endure a full four years of his dangerous words and corrupt behavior. It cost us a lot. It may still cost us our democracy.

 

[DaveXA]

Man, this is just an incredibly naieve take in 2022.

I get why you'd say that. I guess I have a bit more faith in our system than some people.

More than a few people thought Trump would try to use the military to implement a coup and declare himself the winner and stay in office. When the day came, he picked up and left. He knew he lost on the day of the election. Everything until 1/6 was a perpetuation of the big lie and after 1/6 the election was certified and there was nothing left for Trump to do.

Now I'll say this much, if Trump gets reelected with a majority Republican Congress in both houses, I'd be a lot more worried. But we'll cross that bridge in '24. I do hope Trump doesn't run. If he does run, we as a country better wake up and realize we're playing with fire by electing Trump again.

I'll be in another country before he's inaugurated, that much I do know.

 

[DaveXA]

I'm not even sure we've survived Trump yet.

True dat. It's still up to the people though. If we reelect him, we get what we deserve.

 

[Optimus Prime]

This could have gone in the Jan 6th hearings thread too
=================
As important as it is for the House select committee investigating the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol to make the nation understand what really happened on that horrific day, the panel has a more crucial mission: making sure that such an effort to overturn the result of a legitimate election does not happen again.


The potential is there, because the sedition continues. That should not be lost as the bipartisan House panel lays its case before the American people.

Jan. 6 was not just a day; it was the opening salvo of a movement to undermine democracy…..

Many of them are vying for offices that would put them in position to oversee the election machinery in their states.

According to a running tally being kept by States United Democracy Center, a nonpartisan watchdog organization, at least 35 candidates who have denied the validity of the 2020 election results are running for governor in 20 states; at least 15 for attorney general in 13 states; and nearly two dozen for secretary of state — the chief election officer — in 17 states.


They include state Sen. Doug Mastriano, whom Pennsylvania Republicans nominated as their candidate for governor in that key swing state. Mastriano was at the Capitol on Jan. 6. (Video suggests he crossed law enforcement barricades, though Mastriano insists he followed police instructions.)

If elected, he has promised to require all voters to re-register, which would no doubt disenfranchise many. He would also appoint Pennsylvania’s secretary of state, the official who certifies vote tallies.


Also at the Capitol that day was Michigan Republican gubernatorial candidate Ryan D. Kelley, who was arrested Thursday on federal charges that included four counts punishable by up to a year in prison for each charge. Among them: trespassing, disorderly conduct, committing an act of violence against a person or property on restricted grounds, and depredation of federal property. Kelley has yet to comment on the charges, but he has called the riot an “energizing event.”


Colorado Republicans have put Mesa County Clerk Tina Peters on the ballot as a candidate for secretary of state — despite the fact that she was indicted in March on criminal charges related to baseless conspiracy theories of fraud in the 2020 presidential election.

She is accused of smuggling someone who was not an employee of the county into its offices to illicitly copy election machine hard drives, charges she claims are politically motivated.

And in Michigan, the GOP endorsed as its candidate for secretary of state Kristina Karamo, a part-time community college professor and proponent of Trump’s election lies who made debunked claims of having witnessed election fraud as a “poll challenger” in 2020…….

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/06/12/sedition-didnt-stop-jan-6-it-must-be-stopped/

In the same vein
==============

J.R. Majewski marched to the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021, and tweeted a photo with the caption: “It’s going down on 1/6.” Last month, he won the Republican nomination in an Ohio congressional district along Lake Erie.


Monica De La Cruz, an insurance agent, contested her defeat in 2020 by repeating former president Donald Trump’s disproved allegations of mail-ballot fraud. For a second time, De La Cruz is the GOP nominee for a Texas House seat that touches the Mexican border.


In an open primary in a safely Republican Georgia district, all nine candidates questioned the 2020 result. Of the two candidates who advanced to this month’s runoff, lawyer Jake Evans touted his past efforts to “overturn” elections, while physician Rich McCormick emphasized that he refused to concede in a 2018 race. “No one was hurt by voter fraud more than myself,” McCormick said during a May debate.


About a third of the way through the 2022 primaries, voters have nominated scores of Republican candidates for state and federal office who say the 2020 election was rigged, according to a new analysis by The Washington Post.


District by district, state by state, voters in places that cast ballots through the end of May have chosen at least 108 candidates for statewide office or Congress who have repeated Trump’s lies.

The number jumps to at least 149 winning candidates — out of more than 170 races — when it includes those who have campaigned on a platform of tightening voting rules or more stringently enforcing those already on the books, despite the lack of evidence of widespread fraud……

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/06/14/more-than-100-gop-primary-winners-back-trumps-false-fraud-claims/

 

[DaveXA]

But the reality is that a Republican controlled congress WOULD have allowed it to happen. Republicans as the minority party almost made it happen. And even now, the SCOTUS, IMO, is compromised especially when you have the wife of one of them being an insurrectionist.

I agree, it worked but only because the VP decided not to go along. If he had made a different decision, things would be considerably different today.

I actually don't think Pence had a choice. If he didn't, it would have been an illegal action and basically would have been certified regardless. So no, things wouldn't be all that different. Biden would still be President and the only difference is Pence would have thrown away any shred of decency he had left.

Don't forget, Trump had a Republican majority in Congress when he took office, and he didn't really do much. I do agree it probably would be different this time around, but I won't be here when that happens.

 

[Booker]

I actually don't think Pence had a choice. If he didn't, it would have been an illegal action and basically would have been certified regardless. So no, things wouldn't be all that different. Biden would still be President and the only difference is Pence would have thrown away any shred of decency he had left.

Don't forget, Trump had a Republican majority in Congress when he took office, and he didn't really do much. I do agree it probably would be different this time around, but I won't be here when that happens.

It would have gotten ugly really quickly had Pence gone along. The Republicans in the House were ready to get on board with calling the election for Trump, so you would have had both parties claiming the presidency, but with Trump holding the office. Chaos.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Not exactly Republican Party, But over 70% vote GOP so I’m putting this here

And that line about “you’ll never get to heaven being popular with the world” is kind of chilling - bolding is mine
========================

ANAHEIM, Calif. — Southern Baptists filled a cavernous hotel ballroom Sunday to hear a warning: Don’t cooperate or compromise with the Devil.

And this week, as their huge denomination gathers for its annual meeting and to elect a new president, the urgent warning was aimed at their fellow Southern Baptists.

“You don’t advance the kingdom of God by lining up with the kingdom of Satan,” John MacArthur, a dean of conservative evangelical preaching, told the audience, referring to issues including the role of women and addressing racism.

“You will never advance the kingdom of God by being popular with the world. If you think you will, you’re doing the Devil’s work. How can you negotiate with people who hate Christ, hate God, hate the Bible and hate the Gospel?”


The host of the part-prayer gathering, part-campaign rally on the first night of the Southern Baptist Convention’s annual meeting was the Conservative Baptist Network, an upstart group that some observers have compared with the MAGA wing of the Republican Party.

The network was formed two years ago in response to the issues of institutional racism and sexual abuse as priorities in the nation’s largest Protestant denomination.


In the Southern Baptist Convention — where women aren’t allowed to be head pastors, same-sex marriage is opposed and 70 percent of its nearly 14 million members vote Republican — the CBN’s leaders and supporters say the situation is an emergency. This week, they hope to elect a president who agrees.

“Pretty soon it will be women preachers, social justice, then racism, then [critical race theory], then victimization because the world is a ball and chain, and when you’re hooked, it will take you to the bottom. They hate the truth,” MacArthur said to a crowd that flipped, through the night, between pin-drop silence and cheers of “That’s true!”…..

https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2022/06/13/southern-baptists-john-macarthur/

 

[DaveXA]

It would have gotten ugly really quickly had Pence gone along. The Republicans in the House were ready to get on board with calling the election for Trump, so you would have had both parties claiming the presidency, but with Trump holding the office. Chaos.

Possibly, but again, I doubt it because there's no provision that allows for Pence not certifying. They would just get the next official to certify it and would have been over in a minute. Mountain out of a molehill imo.

 

[MT15]

Not exactly Republican Party, But over 70% vote GOP do I’m putting this here

And that line about “you’ll never get to heaven being popular with the world” is kind of chilling
========================

ANAHEIM, Calif. — Southern Baptists filled a cavernous hotel ballroom Sunday to hear a warning: Don’t cooperate or compromise with the Devil.

And this week, as their huge denomination gathers for its annual meeting and to elect a new president, the urgent warning was aimed at their fellow Southern Baptists.

“You don’t advance the kingdom of God by lining up with the kingdom of Satan,” John MacArthur, a dean of conservative evangelical preaching, told the audience, referring to issues including the role of women and addressing racism.

“You will never advance the kingdom of God by being popular with the world. If you think you will, you’re doing the Devil’s work. How can you negotiate with people who hate Christ, hate God, hate the Bible and hate the Gospel?”


The host of the part-prayer gathering, part-campaign rally on the first night of the Southern Baptist Convention’s annual meeting was the Conservative Baptist Network, an upstart group that some observers have compared with the MAGA wing of the Republican Party.

The network was formed two years ago in response to the issues of institutional racism and sexual abuse as priorities in the nation’s largest Protestant denomination.


In the Southern Baptist Convention — where women aren’t allowed to be head pastors, same-sex marriage is opposed and 70 percent of its nearly 14 million members vote Republican — the CBN’s leaders and supporters say the situation is an emergency. This week, they hope to elect a president who agrees.

“Pretty soon it will be women preachers, social justice, then racism, then [critical race theory], then victimization because the world is a ball and chain, and when you’re hooked, it will take you to the bottom. They hate the truth,” MacArthur said to a crowd that flipped, through the night, between pin-drop silence and cheers of “That’s true!”…..

https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2022/06/13/southern-baptists-john-macarthur/

Weaponized gaslighting. Ugh.

 

[dtc]

Well, I don't know how close we actually are to authoritarianism, but, that being said, as it's set up now, the only way I see that truly happening is if the Executive branch is given substantially more power than he has currently. He's not a dictator, and even if he wanted to be, I don't think Congress or even SCOTUS would allow that to happen. People said it would happen with Trump, and it didn't happen. Thankfully he left of his own accord even though he tried to stay in office through the attempted coup. Our system of checks and balances worked. I think it would work again whether it's Trump or anyone else.

I know some have little faith in out system, but I trust it and I think we can survive an authoritarian president even if less than ideal.

Dood

It worked last time and as I type his scum sucking followers and lackeys are busily placing all the parts to ensure that net time it won't.

To think otherwise is naivete in the extreme.

 

[Sandman]

It's pretty clear what he meant, Dave. He's a troll and now he's insulting everyone on this board that disagrees with him. His entire posting history is trash and he has shown zero interest in having an open and honest discussion.

I agree with this. In another thread, he was posting about inflation, wanting to blame Biden. Other posters engaged and discussed it with him. We showed how the inflation isn’t Biden’s fault. I wrote a lengthy post regarding gas prices and it’s causes. There was no attempt to discuss futher. Instead, he just changed the subject to some nonsense.

He wants to come on here and post false info. There is no desire to learn or discuss. When shown his info is false, he tries to change the subject. If that isn’t a troll, I don’t know what is.