Would there have been a plot to kidnap Gretchen Whitmer without the close involvement of FBI informants? (1 Viewer)

Users who are viewing this thread

    SaintForLife

    Well-known member
    Joined
    Oct 5, 2019
    Messages
    5,415
    Reaction score
    2,567
    Location
    Madisonville
    Offline


    WATCHING THE WATCHMEN​


    In the inky darkness of a late summer night last September, three cars filled with armed men began circling Birch Lake in northern Michigan, looking for ways to approach Gov. Gretchen Whitmer’s three-bedroom vacation cottage, subdue her — using a stun gun if necessary — and drag her away.

    One vehicle stopped to check out a boat launch while a second searched in vain for the right house in the thick woods ringing the lake. The third car ran countersurveillance, using night vision goggles to look out for cops and handheld radios to communicate with the others.

    Earlier, they had scoped out a bridge over the Elk River, just a few miles away, scrambling down under the span to figure out where plastic explosives would need to be placed to blow it sky-high. That would slow police response, giving the men time to escape with the governor — who had infuriated them by imposing COVID lockdowns, among other outrages — and either take her to Lake Michigan, where they could abandon her on a boat, or whisk her to Wisconsin, where she would be tried as a “tyrant.”

    “Everybody down with what’s going on?” an Iraq War veteran in the group demanded to know when they ended their recon mission, well past midnight, at a campsite where they were all staying.

    “If you’re not down with the thought of kidnapping,” someone else replied, “don’t sit here.”

    The men planned for all kinds of obstacles, but there was one they didn’t anticipate: The FBI had been listening in all along.

    For six months, the Iraq War vet had been wearing a wire, gathering hundreds of hours of recordings. He wasn’t the only one. A biker who had traveled from Wisconsin to join the group was another informant. The man who’d advised them on where to put the explosives — and offered to get them as much as the task would require — was an undercover FBI agent. So was a man in one of the other cars who said little and went by the name Mark.

    …A longtime government informant from Wisconsin, for example, helped organize a series of meetings around the country where many of the alleged plotters first met one another and the earliest notions of a plan took root, some of those people say. The Wisconsin informant even paid for some hotel rooms and food as an incentive to get people to come.

    The Iraq War vet, for his part, became so deeply enmeshed in a Michigan militant group that he rose to become its second-in-command, encouraging members to collaborate with other potential suspects and paying for their transportation to meetings. He prodded the alleged mastermind of the kidnapping plot to advance his plan, then baited the trap that led to the arrest.

    This account is based on an analysis of court filings, transcripts, exhibits, audio recordings, and other documents, as well as interviews with more than two dozen people with direct knowledge of the case, including several who were present at meetings and training sessions where prosecutors say the plot was hatched. All but one of the 14 original defendants have pleaded not guilty, and they vigorously deny that they were involved in a conspiracy to kidnap anyone.

    Last week, the lawyer for one defendant filed a motion that included texts from an FBI agent to a key informant, the Iraq War veteran, directing him to draw specific people into the conspiracy — potential evidence of entrapment that he said the government “inadvertently disclosed.” He is requesting all texts sent and received by that informant, and other attorneys are now considering motions that accuse the government of intentionally withholding evidence of entrapment.

    Meanwhile, Gregory Townsend, one of the lead prosecutors handling the cases against eight of the defendants in Michigan state court, was reassigned in Maypending an attorney general audit into whether he had withheld evidence about deals cut with informants during a murder and arson trial in Oakland County in 2000. And on Sunday, in a matter apparently unrelated to the alleged kidnapping conspiracy, one of the lead FBI agents in the case, Richard J. Trask, was charged in state court in Kalamazoo with assault with intent to do great bodily harm.





    The FBI has a history of questionable tactics when it comes to confidential informants, entrapment, and their involvement in the plots where they are arresting and prosecuting people. Shouldn’t we be closely examining their involvement and methods or should we just trust the FBI?

     
    How comfortable are you with FBI directing confidential informants to do illegal things especially when it gets awfully close to entrapment?

    Maybe you should start a GoFundMe for McDavids legal fees.

    Or just continue to look for ways to poop on any federal agency that you take issue with on a particular day you get a tweet about it.
     
    Maybe you should start a GoFundMe for McDavids legal fees.

    Or just continue to look for ways to poop on any federal agency that you take issue with on a particular day you get a tweet about it.
    Nice try at deflection because you clearly don't even want to say if what the FBI did was good or bad. I know you guys love the security state and hate any criticisms of it. It's today's version of you are with us or you are with the terrorists from the Bush administration.

    Look at how many former FBI, CIA, NSA agents cable TV has working for them. They don't even need a program like operation mockingbird anymore when they can spread their state proganda directly on air.

     
    Nice try at deflection because you clearly don't even want to say if what the FBI did was good or bad. I know you guys love the security state and hate any criticisms of it. It's today's version of you are with us or you are with the terrorists from the Bush administration.

    Look at how many former FBI, CIA, NSA agents cable TV has working for them. They don't even need a program like operation mockingbird anymore when they can spread their state proganda directly on air.

    oooof you have officially jumped the shark here.

    ill leave you to your conspiracy/security state thoughts. Sting operations have produced many thwarted plots, many you never even hear about. If some back-woods country bumpkins were approached with an "idea" from a CI they had EVERY opportunity to say " ummm no". I understand the tactics involved do not sit well with you and you would rather deal with the issue AFTER the plot has been carried out i guess.

    Reactive vs Proactive is what you need to come to terms with.
     
    I have a really hard time believing those Michigan idiots were coerced into doing something they didn’t want to do. Same goes for the eco-terrorists. Like was already said, you couldn’t talk me into a kidnapping and murder plot.
     
    Same here, for the record, I trust them a hell of alot more than SFL or any GOP goner....
    You guys love the national security state. Years ago it used to be the right that believed everything out of FBI. Now you guys look the other way at their abuses as long as it serves your political interests.
     
    I have a really hard time believing those Michigan idiots were coerced into doing something they didn’t want to do. Same goes for the eco-terrorists. Like was already said, you couldn’t talk me into a kidnapping and murder plot.
    Are you not aware of the FBI's shady history with confidential informants and entrapment?

    This was back when the left didn't believe or trust everything from the FBI or other law enforcement agencies. Do you believe this to.be true?
     
    You guys love the national security state. Years ago it used to be the right that believed everything out of FBI. Now you guys look the other way at their abuses as long as it serves your political interests.
    Let's put it this way... I'd take President Dick Cheney (or his daughter by proxy) over that maniac Trump all day e'ry day!
     
    Sure I do believe there have been excesses. Of course. But right now, this is merely a diversion from the dumpster fire we have going on in the GOP. It’s small potatoes.
     
    This is one of those rare times I find myself agreeing with SaintForLife. I've done some reading on the subject and it really seems the FBI went beyond the normal undercover listen and build a case activity here. We saw a lot of this in the 70's and 80's taking down the mob as well. The FBI really shouldn't be in the business of leading horses to water, even if they're thirsty.

    If I was on a jury I don't think I could convict these guys because to me this was a very clear case of entrapment. In fact, if I was a DA I wouldn't even bring the case.
     
    This is one of those rare times I find myself agreeing with SaintForLife. I've done some reading on the subject and it really seems the FBI went beyond the normal undercover listen and build a case activity here. We saw a lot of this in the 70's and 80's taking down the mob as well. The FBI really shouldn't be in the business of leading horses to water, even if they're thirsty.

    If I was on a jury I don't think I could convict these guys because to me this was a very clear case of entrapment. In fact, if I was a DA I wouldn't even bring the case.
    Just read the BuzzFeed article and.. it's pretty complicated. Need more time to process it but would also be helpful to kind of see the connections and everything just laid out in a chart.

    "Dan" as a recruiter is the part that I think I mainly have a problem with and where it, at the least, straddles the line of venturing into entrapment of some of the individuals.. but I'm not really firm on much beyond that aspect.
     
    This is one of those rare times I find myself agreeing with SaintForLife. I've done some reading on the subject and it really seems the FBI went beyond the normal undercover listen and build a case activity here. We saw a lot of this in the 70's and 80's taking down the mob as well. The FBI really shouldn't be in the business of leading horses to water, even if they're thirsty.

    If I was on a jury I don't think I could convict these guys because to me this was a very clear case of entrapment. In fact, if I was a DA I wouldn't even bring the case.
    Freely admit I haven’t read up on the case, but here would be my question. Didn’t they go through with it? They actually started the process of kidnapping Whitmer before they were arrested, right?

    Surely there have to be some criminal charges there. They shouldn’t just walk after that, IMO.
     

    Create an account or login to comment

    You must be a member in order to leave a comment

    Create account

    Create an account on our community. It's easy!

    Log in

    Already have an account? Log in here.

    Advertisement

    General News Feed

    Fact Checkers News Feed

    Sponsored

    Back
    Top Bottom