Will “mass deportation” actually happen (2 Viewers)

[superchuck500]

It’s so repulsive to see people cheering for what is basically 80% the same thing as the Holocaust - different end result but otherwise very similar.

Economists have said it would tank the economy and cause inflation - notwithstanding the cost.

Is it going to actually happen or is this Build The Wall 2.0?

 

[SystemShock]

You’re all missing the point - the issue isn’t whether mass deportation would look exactly like the Holocaust, and so you point out the absolute human atrocity to say “Come on man this isn't that!" I can only come to the conclusion that you're being intentionally dense here not to realize what this program will look like . . . what it HAS to look like.

Trump and the mass deportation advocates are targeting the removal of many, many millions of people from America. The most common number you see is between 8 million and 12 million, although Trump has said it can be as high as 20 million. Currently the US processes between about 350,000 deportations per year - and a large number of those are processed at or near the border, where the US immigration resources are concentrated.

If Trump were to attempt to deport the low end of the estimate - 8 million - during his term, you're talking about 2 million people each year. This is almost SIX times the current average. And because the program is going to focus on the interior of the country, it's going to require a realignment and redeployment of immigration agents throughout the country. Trump has said that he would deputize local authorities and certainly in many places they will be happy to help.

So in order to accomplish this very clearly described program, large numbers of federal and deputized local agents will be deployed into the interior with the mission of identifying and arresting illegals. Local jails and courts will be unable to handle these numbers - many are already at capacity on a day to day basis, and this program will see a large, new number of people needing to be processed. So they will have to be transported to detention centers to await their disposition, which will take some time. You cannot avoid this process.

And it's wildly foolish not realize that these newly deployed agents and local deputies will have to make arbitrary decisions about whether a given person has adequately shown enough proof of citizenship to avoid arrest - and certainly mistakes will be made. Identifying these large numbers will require investigations, relying at times on community informants and other local information. Some of the people will be in households where some of the people are undocumented/illegal and others are not. Many of the millions will be children. Many of the millions will be thinking they are going to a country they left when they were children and don't know at all.

There is no way to accomplish the kinds of numbers they're talking about without a massive new, institutionalized program. No, it will almost certainly not lead to the kind of mass arbitrary atrocity we saw with the Holocaust but that was never my point. My point is that if you start from the beginning - the identification of a target group with millions of people (there were about 6 million to 8 million Jews in Europe in 1930, so the numbers are similar) who must be arrested, transported, and ultimately permanently removed, there is no way for the US to accomplish this without a system that is very similar, in a modern way, to how the Holocaust was accomplished, as a matter of the resources and administration it will require. Most European Jews in the holocaust weren’t killed by local thugs and SS agents - they were arrested, detained, processed and sent to camps. It was an institutionalized system with massive government resources.

You haven't rebutted this in any way - you haven't described how it won't be this way. My point is either that (1) it will be this way because it has to be in order to get those kinds of numbers of people deported, or (2) it won't be this way because its' far too ambitious and impractical of a program . . . in other words "Build the Wall 2.0".

Not that it'll matter to some, but that's yet another difference... Jews in Germany weren't illegals, they were Jews, who were made illegal because they were Jews... and another difference, not just by/in Germany.

BTW, every Saturday night, there's a white bus (or 2 or 3, depending on volume) that leaves from the INM (Mexican immigration) offices here in Merida, carrying illegals to the Guatemala border. This happens in many cities in MX (some probably happy they are escaping the hail of bullets). I guess Mexico is 80% Nazi.

And here, just about every Mexican carries an INE, which the national voter registration ID, but very much has become the standard national ID for anything and everything, and also proof of citizenship, while resident aliens are required to carry their green card at all times. INE's have your picture, address, CURP (kind of a SSN), QRs and barcodes that can be swiped to confirm identity and status immediately.... that probably puts MX on the 90% Nazi percentile.

As for abuses of authority, of course, they will happen... but then again, they happen to people, whether legal or illegal, and not just around immigration.

But hey, if you think 80% Holocaust is going to be implemented in the U.S., ok.

 

[SystemShock]

Allegations? These aren't allegations, these are Trump and right wing fascination and dreams of mass deportations.

Ok, I can substitute allegations for fascination and dreams.

Once again all that we here and Democrats are saying is, "look at what they're talking about and where it could lead to."

So, do you seriously think that fascination and dreams can lead to the mass execution of illegals? Or undocumented, whichever term you find appropriate?

Every atrocity in history is riddled with people like yourself saying it could never happen here. Maybe you're right (I'm not so sure, myself) but this is where the US is at.

Oh, yeah... the evil systemshocks of history. LOL.

Tragedies can happen anywhere... the Trail of Tears doesn't even come close to the magnitude of the Holocaust, but it did happen, and happened in the U.S.

The U.S. in not near where Germany was in the 1930s, or where Russia was in the 1910s, to name a couple if situations that lead to the deaths of millions. The conditions today in the U.S. and outside the U.S. are very, very different, regardless of the wet dreams of some.

Are we going to see actual mass deportations of 10-12 million people? I seriously doubt it. We didn't see a 50ft concrete and rebar wall across the U.S.-MX border. An uptick in deportations? Probably. Abuses and injustice? Sure, but abuse of authority and injustice happens in all aspects of law, not just immigration, from traffic stops, wrongful incarceration, to being shot 7 times in your car because you calmy told a police officer you have a legal weapon in your glove compartment.

As I said, I get that people are upset about the election results. But we are not going to see 80% Holocaust. Not even 50% Holocaust, or 20% Holocaust.

 

[MT15]

I think that's a key point. What's the difference between an undocumented immigrant and an immigrant without their documentation, or whose documentation is ignored or disregarded?

They’ve already made it clear - if a family unit - nuclear family not extended family - includes an undocumented parent and citizen children they would deport the entire family. So they are now talking about forcibly deporting citizens. They have also said they will revoke some people’s legal residency. Not everyone mind you, the ones they don’t want here. Like Haitians.

 

[MT15]

It’s great to learn from history. It is crazy to think that a man like Hitler was able to do what he did for so many years. I watch the documentaries and i’m like wtf was going through everyone in Germany's minds? As much as i think people are brainwashed at times, i personally can’t imagine anything as close to the holocaust happening here. It’s weird to me that anyone could think it would go that far.

Maybe read what some Trump supporters and surrogates are saying online? I’ve seen matter of fact discussions about military tribunals and firing squads for Harris and other democrats.

We are not imaging the talk of atrocities. It’s all coming from one side.

 

[superchuck500]

Not that it'll matter to some, but that's yet another difference... Jews in Germany weren't illegals, they were Jews, who were made illegal because they were Jews... and another difference, not just by/in Germany.

BTW, every Saturday night, there's a white bus (or 2 or 3, depending on volume) that leaves from the INM (Mexican immigration) offices here in Merida, carrying illegals to the Guatemala border. This happens in many cities in MX (some probably happy they are escaping the hail of bullets). I guess Mexico is 80% Nazi.

And here, just about every Mexican carries an INE, which the national voter registration ID, but very much has become the standard national ID for anything and everything, and also proof of citizenship, while resident aliens are required to carry their green card at all times. INE's have your picture, address, CURP (kind of a SSN), QRs and barcodes that can be swiped to confirm identity and status immediately.... that probably puts MX on the 90% Nazi percentile.

As for abuses of authority, of course, they will happen... but then again, they happen to people, whether legal or illegal, and not just around immigration.

But hey, if you think 80% Holocaust is going to be implemented in the U.S., ok.

Again, I'm not really talking about the abuses of authority as the central theme here - the central theme is that the idea that US immigration and law enforcement are going conduct "mass deportation" requires a massive, institutionalized program to round up, detain, process, and deport two million people per year or more to reach the kind of numbers Trump has claimed on many occasions. And I don't think people are thinking about what this actually means.

Frankly, I don't actually think it will be implemented because it would be a massive disaster. It would be a fiscal disaster because it would require massive federal spending to build out the resources it would require. It would be an economic disaster because removing millions upon millions from the labor force in a full-employment situation - resulting in significant inflation and shortages in certain industries. And it would be an absolute human disaster as most of these many millions of people have families and communities.

I think it's just another empty promise from Trump - there may be some increased deportation activity but it won't be a large-scale new program to deport millions. And if it does, it's going to be abhorrent - from the same people who brought us the “family separation” policy except on a much larger scale.

It’s simply not possible to do in any other way and those touting it as a great policy are either inexcusably uninformed or malevolent. Those taking glee in it are simply sadistic.

 

[fooferdoggie]

listened to a podcast to get an idea of the cost of doing a mass deportation. half a million more enforcement people would be needed, and facilities to hold them would need hundreds of billions of dollars to do it. but hey, if you take it out of ss and such, it should be fine.

 

[Optimus Prime]

 

[samiam5211]

These guys aren't playing around this time.

The only guardrail is impeachment, so that is going to be a pretty high bar.

SCOTUS has pretty much given him permission to ignore the courts.

They are going to go whatever they can get away with.

 

[fooferdoggie]

These guys aren't playing around this time.

The only guardrail is impeachment, so that is going to be a pretty high bar.


That's not a bar; that's a flattened skunk on a highway. It's easy to roll over. and totally ineffective for him.

 

[bird]

To answer the thread’s question…

Yes, they will happen. The processes and infrastructure may not be in place now but they will be put into place. It is not Trump. He is too stupid and wrapped up in his narcissism. It will be the deep state that he assembles by his crony-team. I would bet, btw, that the vast majority of those he gives power to have nothing but contempt for him but they have or will have achieved power.

This time I expect military parades as well.

 

[Lapaz]

It’s not the holocaust. It would look like Operation Wetback did, not the Holocaust. We have done this multiple times in this country before and it has never led to any kind of holocaust.

Operation Wetback was horrific, yet the biggest estimate is that it led to 1.8M deported. Biden deported over 1M in 2023, so Op Wetback is not on a scale to be called a mass deportation. It was handled ruthlessly, so that may be similar. Mexico cooperated, which helped it. Poland and other countries didn’t cooperate with Hitler, so he issued the final solution. If countries of origin don’t cooperate with Trump, he will ramp up the hateful rhetoric to stir up the racists. When that happens, will the cult let it happen?

The Largest Mass Deportation in American History | HISTORY

As many as 1.3 million people may have been swept up in the Eisenhower‑era campaign.

www.history.com

 

[superchuck500]

Trump has named his first deportation administrator - Tom Homan, who did serve as ICE chief under Trump at some point in the first administration . . . though he was never confirmed by the Senate. Under Homan's ICE leadership, the Trump administration attempted a "zero tolerance" immigration policy that included family separation - a policy designed to discourage illegal border crossing because parents would lose their children. It is widely considered by the history of the administration to have been a regrettable chapter of American policy.

Homan has also indicated that he considers children of illegals born in the US to be deportable - despite their being citizens under the Constitution.

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/11/11/trump-taps-former-immigration-official-thomas-homan-as-border-czar-00188726

 

[superchuck500]

Operation Wetback was horrific, yet the biggest estimate is that it led to 1.8M deported. Biden deported over 1M in 2023, so Op Wetback is not on a scale to be called a mass deportation. It was handled ruthlessly, so that may be similar. Mexico cooperated, which helped it. Poland and other countries didn’t cooperate with Hitler, so he issued the final solution. If countries of origin don’t cooperate with Trump, he will ramp up the hateful rhetoric to stir up the racists. When that happens, will the cult let it happen?

The Largest Mass Deportation in American History | HISTORY

As many as 1.3 million people may have been swept up in the Eisenhower‑era campaign.

www.history.com

Just to make sure we're using common terminology in this issue, as of June 2024, the Biden administration had deported approximately 1.1 million people, starting with January 2021 . . . so that's between 350K and 400K per year. The Biden administration also stepped up the use of Title 42 expulsion to turn away migrants and very-recent border crossings. I think that when you combine those numbers you get to something like 1 million in 2023. But it's not the same process and happens almost exclusively at the border immigration centers.

According to that piece, the Operation Wetback numbers range by estimates between 300,000 and the quasi-official number of 1.1 million - which seems to be an INS figure. Multiple sources describe the program as "para-military" and say the program deported "numerous" American citizens.

The Biden Administration Is on Pace to Match Trump Deportation Numbers—Focusing on the Border, Not the U.S. Interior

The Biden administration is on pace to carry out as many deportations as the Trump administration, although an overwhelming number have come in the form of voluntary returns at the border, rather than removals of unauthorized immigrants from the U.S. interior. This shift has echoes of earlier...

www.migrationpolicy.org

 

[Lapaz]

Ok, I can substitute allegations for fascination and dreams.


So, do you seriously think that fascination and dreams can lead to the mass execution of illegals? Or undocumented, whichever term you find appropriate?


Oh, yeah... the evil systemshocks of history. LOL.

Tragedies can happen anywhere... the Trail of Tears doesn't even come close to the magnitude of the Holocaust, but it did happen, and happened in the U.S.

The U.S. in not near where Germany was in the 1930s, or where Russia was in the 1910s, to name a couple if situations that lead to the deaths of millions. The conditions today in the U.S. and outside the U.S. are very, very different, regardless of the wet dreams of some.

Are we going to see actual mass deportations of 10-12 million people? I seriously doubt it. We didn't see a 50ft concrete and rebar wall across the U.S.-MX border. An uptick in deportations? Probably. Abuses and injustice? Sure, but abuse of authority and injustice happens in all aspects of law, not just immigration, from traffic stops, wrongful incarceration, to being shot 7 times in your car because you calmy told a police officer you have a legal weapon in your glove compartment.

As I said, I get that people are upset about the election results. But we are not going to see 80% Holocaust. Not even 50% Holocaust, or 20% Holocaust.

The concern is the same thing that led to the ratcheting up in Germany…frustration that the program was failing. Trump’s wall was symbolic of an effort that wouldn’t solve the problem. The “problem” is the poisoning of our blood by the vermin that are the source of most of our problems. If Trump’s mass deportations don’t achieve his goal of deporting 20M “vermin”, he will justify worsening actions. Either he is lying, or it will be even worse than Operation Wetback, which deported barely more than what we deport today.

Hitler was failing to deport the “vermin” that were poisoning their blood because other nations didn’t cooperate. Trump will face similar resistance. The final solution was Hitler’s solution due to frustration that he couldn’t deport as many as he wanted to deport, which his cult accepted. What will Trump’s cult accept?

 

[superchuck500]

These guys aren't playing around this time.

The only guardrail is impeachment, so that is going to be a pretty high bar.

SCOTUS has pretty much given him permission to ignore the courts.

They are going to go whatever they can get away with.

I don't agree with this idea that the Supreme Court has told Trump he can do whatever he wants and can ignore the courts.

For example, Trump has said he's going to "end birthright citizenship" on day 1 and Homan has said he will deport families even if the children were born in the US. This is clearly unconstitutional and will be enjoined by a federal court as soon as the filing is made to challenge it. The only possible way to get around the 14th Amendment's guarantee that "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States, and the states wherein they reside" is to conclude that children of illegals are somehow not subject to U.S. jurisdiction. Some wackos have argued that this is true but it's unquestionably not true and even nonsensical. The Supreme Court isn't going to ignore that obvious result of the 14th Amendment - so it will be ruled unconstitutional.

There's rabbit holes of constitutional crises we can envision from there but there are still going to be legal limits with what the administration can and cannot do. It's one thing for a president to flout the rule of law, it's another when a wholesale program includes activity that violates federal court order.

 

[J-DONK]

For anyone wondering what this will look like, Florida did something like this already.

This is a long read, but it goes into the issues farmers have with the Florida law.

 

[Sendai]

Could You Be Deported If You Have A Child Born In The US?​

The short answer is yes. It’s routine for illegal aliens to be deported from the United States, even if they have a child or several children born in the country. However, any child of an illegal alien cannot be deported from the United States. If you are detained and issued a deportation notice, you will have two options for your US-born child or children. You can choose to leave your child or children in the care of a trusted individual who agrees to become their legal guardian or travel to your country of origin with them.

If a parent opts to leave their child in the United States and they don’t have a friend or family member willing and able to become their child’s legal guardian, the child in question will become a ward of the state. Children who become state wards will be placed into the foster system. So parents need to think carefully before leaving their children in the United States without a willing guardian to raise them.

Getting Deported Despite Having A Child Born In The US | Lincoln-Goldfinch Law

Can you still get deported if your child was born in the US? Learn more about this issue in this article.

www.lincolngoldfinch.com

 

[coldseat]

Could You Be Deported If You Have A Child Born In The US?​

The short answer is yes. It’s routine for illegal aliens to be deported from the United States, even if they have a child or several children born in the country. However, any child of an illegal alien cannot be deported from the United States. If you are detained and issued a deportation notice, you will have two options for your US-born child or children. You can choose to leave your child or children in the care of a trusted individual who agrees to become their legal guardian or travel to your country of origin with them.

If a parent opts to leave their child in the United States and they don’t have a friend or family member willing and able to become their child’s legal guardian, the child in question will become a ward of the state. Children who become state wards will be placed into the foster system. So parents need to think carefully before leaving their children in the United States without a willing guardian to raise them.

Getting Deported Despite Having A Child Born In The US | Lincoln-Goldfinch Law

Can you still get deported if your child was born in the US? Learn more about this issue in this article.

www.lincolngoldfinch.com

Completely unnecessary. Just put these people on a path to citizenship if they've been in the country over 5-10 years and don't have any history of crime.

It's stupid to break up families or kick people out if they've been here for years and are contributing to society.

For those who have more recently arrived, it's more understandable to return them to their home country if they're here illegally just to dissuade other migrants from doing the same thing.

No matter what you do, there will always be people coming into the country or staying here illegally, like Elon Musk. It's never a problem that's going to be solved entirely. For those that get away with it and don't cause problems, after a certain number of years it's just better to put them on the track to become legal.