Will “mass deportation” actually happen (7 Viewers)

[superchuck500]

It’s so repulsive to see people cheering for what is basically 80% the same thing as the Holocaust - different end result but otherwise very similar.

Economists have said it would tank the economy and cause inflation - notwithstanding the cost.

Is it going to actually happen or is this Build The Wall 2.0?

 

[MT15]

 

[Optimus Prime]

Cruelty is the point

ICE slammed for ‘disgusting’ use of viral Jet2 Holiday sound

‘This post honestly makes me sick,’ said singer Jess Glynne Wednesday

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Sendai]

Sendai, Joe - you’re up. What say you?

From a previous post. My position

“Personally I’d prefer they give those to be deported a date to show for transport. If they don’t show up, then detention.

I think the apprehension process is disturbing.”

 

[MT15]

From a previous post. My position

“Personally I’d prefer they give those to be deported a date to show for transport. If they don’t show up, then detention.

I think the apprehension process is disturbing.”

that doesn’t answer Jim’s question, I would be very interested in your answer to his question, please.

 

[TampaJoe]

Sendai, Joe - you’re up. What say you?

Different crimes. IMV. Illegal immigration is more akin to trespass. If someone comes on my property illegally, they are asked to leave. If they don’t leave voluntarily, they are arrested. If they leave and come back, they are arrested. They don’t get to stay indefinitely.

Seems like a more appropriate comparison.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

Different crimes. IMV. Illegal immigration is more akin to trespass. If someone comes on my property illegally, they are asked to leave. If they don’t leave voluntarily, they are arrested. If they leave and come back, they are arrested. They don’t get to stay indefinitely.

Seems like a more appropriate comparison.

What if they are on your neighbor's private property? The analogy to trespassing doesn't apply, because the US is not the private property of the US government, other than the land they directly own.

By your analogy, if someone is okay with immigrants on their private property, a city is okay with immigrants within their city limits, and/or a state is okay with immigrants within their state lines, then no one else should have any say in the matter.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

Different crimes. IMV. Illegal immigration is more akin to trespass. If someone comes on my property illegally, they are asked to leave. If they don’t leave voluntarily, they are arrested. If they leave and come back, they are arrested. They don’t get to stay indefinitely.

Seems like a more appropriate comparison.

Except it isn't. Trespass is a criminal offense, speeding and overstaying your visa are not. Also, trespassing is a person misusing someone else's private property, whereas speeding and entering the country without a visa are misusing public resources.

I can make the argument that speeding is more dangerous than trespassing and overstaying your visa. It costs more money every year and kills more people every year.

 

[TampaJoe]

What if they are on your neighbor's private property? The analogy to trespassing doesn't apply, because the US is not the private property of the US government, other than the land they directly own.

By your analogy, if someone is okay with immigrants on their private property, a city is okay with immigrants within their city limits, and/or a state is okay with immigrants within their state lines, then no one else should have any say in the matter.

Neighbor as in Canada or Mexico has their own immigration law. However, my neighbors yard along with the various cities and states are US territories and are subject to US immigration law. Under the Constitution, immigration is a federal issue. This has been confirmed in numerous SCOTUS cases. So the US government by law has jurisdiction and therefore a “say” over immigration within its territories, including your neighbors yard.

 

[zztop]

He started off as a writer for the Daily Show back in 2017. Now he is hosting the show itself 3x a week.

 

[TampaJoe]

Except it isn't. Trespass is a criminal offense, speeding and overstaying your visa are not. Also, trespassing is a person misusing someone else's private property, whereas speeding and entering the country without a visa are misusing public resources.

I can make the argument that speeding is more dangerous than trespassing and overstaying your visa. It costs more money every year and kills more people every year.

Trespass is a misdemeanor initially. But whatever. Someone asked what I thought and I answered. You pick your misdemeanor violation and I will pick mine.

Immigration is being somewhere uninvited and so is trespass. Hence my comparison.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

Trespass is a misdemeanor initially. But whatever. Someone asked what I thought and I answered. You pick your misdemeanor violation and I will pick mine.

Immigration is being somewhere uninvited and so is trespass. Hence my comparison.

I appreciate you answering, but I guess I want to dig further into it. Some of it depends on your jurisdiction, I believe in Virginia, if you knowingly trespass on property here, it's a criminal misdemeanor -- overstaying your visa, or entering without a valid visa is a civil misdemeanor.

Let's say someone overstays their visa, gets a job, and pays rent and so on. Are you saying that presents the same level of inconvenience and potential threat to your safety as someone camping out on your property? How so?

If someone is on my property, I lose the ability to use my property exactly the way I want it. If someone is here working, paying rent, and so on, there is no direct impact to me (there may be indirect impacts, negative and positive).

Basically, what I'm driving at is, why are we supposed to freak out over people who are in this country through committing a civil misdemeanor. At this point I think you realize just saying it's against the law is not adequate, b/c we put up with other offenses even more dangerous without going to the lengths this current administration is taking to handle this particular civil misdemeanor.

I'm asking you to make the case for why we should spend an additional $70 billion per year on this, as well as treat the people in this manner (arresting them at the court hearings and sticking them in bad conditions, or rendering them to concentration camps in 3rd countries without a trial), masked agents grabbing people on the street. And so on.

We've never had an "open border", it's always been a degree of how much we want to spend, and how poorly do we want to treat these people.

 

[brandon]

You pick your misdemeanor violation and I will pick mine.

Speeding isn't a misdemeanor.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

However, my neighbors yard...

Is your neighbors private property, even though it's part of the US. The US does not own that land. If someone trespasses on your land, they are not trespassing against the US. They are only trespassing against you.

...along with the various cities and states are US territories and are subject to US immigration law.

That is true, but an immigrant being here in violation of US immigration law is not a trespass against the US, because trespass is only committed against a property owner. The US does not own all of the property in the US. They have some legal jurisdiction, but they do not own the entire country.

This has been confirmed in numerous SCOTUS cases. So the US government by law has jurisdiction and therefore a “say” over immigration within its territories, including your neighbors yard.

True, but it's still not trespassing and if ICE follows the law, they can not enter my private property to search for immigrants without a warrant, because it's my private property. If ICE enters my private property without my consent and without my warrant, then they are the ones trespassing and violating my Constitutional rights.

You're trespassing analogy does not apply to immigration law. It's not the same thing.

By the way, immigration regulations were originally a state's right. The Supreme Court stripped that right away from the states and gave it to the Federal government. Are you okay with the Supreme Court stripping rights away from states? It was my impression you were opposed to that. I thought that's why you supported the overturning of Roe vs. Wade.

 

[TampaJoe]

I appreciate you answering, but I guess I want to dig further into it. Some of it depends on your jurisdiction, I believe in Virginia, if you knowingly trespass on property here, it's a criminal misdemeanor -- overstaying your visa, or entering without a valid visa is a civil misdemeanor.

Let's say someone overstays their visa, gets a job, and pays rent and so on. Are you saying that presents the same level of inconvenience and potential threat to your safety as someone camping out on your property? How so?

If someone is on my property, I lose the ability to use my property exactly the way I want it. If someone is here working, paying rent, and so on, there is no direct impact to me (there may be indirect impacts, negative and positive).

Basically, what I'm driving at is, why are we supposed to freak out over people who are in this country through committing a civil misdemeanor. At this point I think you realize just saying it's against the law is not adequate, b/c we put up with other offenses even more dangerous without going to the lengths this current administration is taking to handle this particular civil misdemeanor.

I'm asking you to make the case for why we should spend an additional $70 billion per year on this, as well as treat the people in this manner (arresting them at the court hearings and sticking them in bad conditions, or rendering them to concentration camps in 3rd countries without a trial), masked agents grabbing people on the street. And so on.

We've never had an "open border", it's always been a degree of how much we want to spend, and how poorly do we want to treat these people.

I fully support Congress passing bipartisan legislation dealing with immigration. I have said on numerous occasions that it is not cost effective to deport 29 million people.

As to the border, let’s not mince words. You can call the border under Biden many things but secure and controlled isn’t it. Not in my opinion. So if you have a way to manage the border misrepresent efficiently and effectively without returning to the disaster that was the Biden border policy, I am all years. To me, it was an open border. To many other voters, it was an open border. YMMV.

Until such time as new laws are passed, I expect LEO and government institutions to faithfully execute and enforce duly passed immigration law. I expect state and local governments and law enforcement to also cooperate with federal law enforcement. To do otherwise undermines the authority of the federal government institutions and gives permission to future state and local governments to similarly ignore the federal law they do not particularly agree with. I am a small federal government conservative but I don’t think it is smart to undermine federal institutions ability to govern.

Knowingly violating immigration law to me is like going onto posted property. When that happens in TN or MS, you don’t get to stay on the property indefinitely. You are asked to leave immediately or you are removed. It isn’t a matter of paying taxes or being a nice person. You are somewhere uninvited. And unless we enforce those laws and they have consequences, you have no control over your borders. That is my opinion.

But I am open to new legislation. In the meantime, LEO should enforce current law.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

Immigration is being somewhere uninvited...

It is revealing phrasing on your part and speaks out loud the truth about the current anti-immigration inhumanity and depravity.

It has nothing to do with whether or not a person immigrates here the legal/right way or not. It has everything to do with some of you seeing all people who look a certain way or come from a certain place, as being unwelcome and uninvited. It's all about bigotry, not legality.

The people who employ immigrants clearly have invited them to be here. The majority of us in this country want a quicker and easier path to legal residency for immigrants, because we invite and welcome them here. It's only a minority of us that seem them as "uninvited," and it's a hate filled minority of us.

Poll after poll shows that the vast majority of us Americans want the border to be secured, but we also want a quicker and easier pathway to legal residency for immigrants. We welcome them and invite them here even if you, and those like you, don't.

Let me guess, "vote differently you unintelligent liar," am I right?

 

[TampaJoe]

It is revealing phrasing on your part and speaks out loud the truth about the current anti-immigration inhumanity and depravity.

It has nothing to do with whether or not a person immigrates here the legal/right way or not. It has everything to do with some of you seeing all people who look a certain way or come from a certain place, as being unwelcome and uninvited. It's all about bigotry, not legality.

The people who employ immigrants clearly have invited them to be here. The majority of us in this country want a quicker and easier path to legal residency for immigrants, because we invite and welcome them here. It's only a minority of us that seem them as "uninvited," and it's a hate filled minority of us.

Poll after poll shows that the vast majority of us Americans want the border to be secured, but we also want a quicker and easier pathway to legal residency for immigrants. We welcome them and invite them here even if you, and those like you, don't.

Let me guess, "vote differently you unintelligent liar," am I right?

Unless I miss my guess, you do not have the legal authority to invite someone to enter this country by circumventing US immigration law. Neither do employers. We have immigration laws which should be followed.

If you desire to change those laws there is an approved legal process to accomplish that objective. Ignoring the law is not a legal strategy.

It doesn’t matter what I personally like or approve. It is a matter of law. And ideally justice should be blind.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

I fully support Congress passing bipartisan legislation dealing with immigration. I have said on numerous occasions that it is not cost effective to deport 29 million people.

As to the border, let’s not mince words. You can call the border under Biden many things but secure and controlled isn’t it. Not in my opinion. So if you have a way to manage the border misrepresent efficiently and effectively without returning to the disaster that was the Biden border policy, I am all years. To me, it was an open border. To many other voters, it was an open border. YMMV.

Until such time as new laws are passed, I expect LEO and government institutions to faithfully execute and enforce duly passed immigration law. I expect state and local governments and law enforcement to also cooperate with federal law enforcement. To do otherwise undermines the authority of the federal government institutions and gives permission to future state and local governments to similarly ignore the federal law they do not particularly agree with. I am a small federal government conservative but I don’t think it is smart to undermine federal institutions ability to govern.

Knowingly violating immigration law to me is like going onto posted property. When that happens in TN or MS, you don’t get to stay on the property indefinitely. You are asked to leave immediately or you are removed. It isn’t a matter of paying taxes or being a nice person. You are somewhere uninvited. And unless we enforce those laws and they have consequences, you have no control over your borders. That is my opinion.

But I am open to new legislation. In the meantime, LEO should enforce current law.

What would your reaction be if we decided to treat speeders the way we are treating people here without a valid visa? Basically, that's the way I'm looking at it. I can quantify the damage and safety issues of speeders easier than I can illegal immigrants.

Would you vigorously oppose sending people who are speeding to concentration camps? What if we had masked agents pull speeders off the road and throw them into unmarked vans? Would you think people protesting such actions justified?

I'm asking you to make a quantifiable case for why we should treat people who committed a single civil misdemeanor offense in this manner instead of people who speed - sometimes repeatedly.

BTW, here are the changes that Biden made in summary... doesn't look like an open border to me:

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

Unless I miss my guess, you do not have the legal authority to invite someone to enter this country by circumventing US immigration law. Neither do employers. We have immigration laws which should be followed.

If you desire to change those laws there is an approved legal process to accomplish that objective. Ignoring the law is not a legal strategy.

It doesn’t matter what I personally like or approve. It is a matter of law.

You already stepped outside of the bogus "it's a matter of law" cover story. It's not about the law. It's solely about seeing all "immigration is being somewhere uninvited." You, and those like you, don't want them here whether they are here legally or not.

The current anti-immigration injustice and inhumanity are being fueled by hate filled bigotry, not by a desire for law and order. Trump and his ICE goons are breaking the law daily, but nothing but excuses for that from the "law and order" crowd.

And ideally justice should be blind.

And the injustice and inhumanity being committed against all immigrants that look a certain way or come from certain places wouldn't be happening if justice was blind.

It's happening, because a hate filled minority of us in this country are bigots who put their hate filled bigotry above the law, morality and human decency.