What Will You Do? (2 Viewers)

[Mr. Blue Sky]

If Trump wins again in November (and for the record, i think he will- since he’s made it clear he’ll stop at nothing)- What will you do? It’s pretty apparent that he wants to be in power for life, and America will go down the road of countless countries before it, that we’ve all seen on the news and thought ‘It cant happen here’... If you dont think that this is the direction Trump will take us, then i will submit that you haven’t been paying attention... Of course, his followers will tell you the exact opposite- “If Trump doesnt win reelection, then we’re all doomed!!”.. Well, only one side can be right.. We cant both be ‘sort of’ correct... It’s a shame, becuase i used to be a moderate, but now due to Trump and his enablers/voters, it’s become more of an extremely high stakes team sport.. As your Dear Leader himself would say: “It is what it is.”

So back to my question: What , specifically, will you do if he wins? Where will you go? Canada , or Mexico? Elsewhere? Or stay and fight, and become like another Beirut, or Belarus, where protestors get dragged off in windowless vans .. Oh wait, that’s already happening here.. I am genuinely interested in whether any of yall are hatching an escape plan, or planning to do anything drastic.. As for me, the answer is I Dont Know... The only thing I’m sure of is i dont want to be around for two, or three, or four Trump ”terms” until he mercifully drops dead.

 

[dtc]

Welp.... I mean... There's always finger pointing, taking your ball and going home (or to someone else' house I guess), throwing a violent tantrum, projecting gloom and doom, and/or complete denial .... I mean those are always tried and true methods to deal with adversity, lack of understanding, or generally deal with things don't go the way you want them to... amirite!

The entire premise of the thread you started more than demonstrates my entire point... And I don't expect you to understand, because you very likely do not have the contextual life experiences to have faced enough first hand adversity or real life experiences - to actually learn how to overcome it properly and develop the personal perspective that would build that character, and ability to look at yourself honestly and find fault - and say to yourself without hesitation - "It's on me to do better and make the difference - I will".

Blah blah blah.

You're missing the point.

Yours is an inspirational story. You are a model of what we should all aspire to be.

You haven't given up despite adversity and you retain the belief that others can achieve if they do their best and work hard despite the odds.

I applaud you for your success, but I will simply add that it shouldn't have been so hard and it sure as hell ought to not be getting harder for those that follow.

200 years ago your story was impossible. 150 years ago, no freaking way or 1 in a million. 100 years ago in Louisiana you would have been a white elephant had you managed to do what you did and ever at 50 years old, your parents didn't go to desegregated or equal schools. Had you gone in the Army at 17 a mere 20 years previously you'd have been kitchen help.

Things have gotten better. They should continue getting better - as they have - but yours ought not be the same story for kids today. They should benefit from what we've all achieved and they should eat better, learn more and go further.

Instead, we've got an economy as rigged against the youth in our country as it's ever been unless your parents are rich.

 

[SFIDC3]

You are correct UV2020. I am not a very moderate moderator; I am a very conservative moderator. Unlike people who say they are conservative due to adherence to a handful of current day policy positions, I am a conservative who understands that the principles of conservatism are rooted in concepts. I could explain it all to you and I would be happy to do so, but that's not what you asked for. So to answer your interest, the most specific thing I like about Biden is that he is not Donald Trump.

I would also agree that Trump is very accomplished, but he is hardly conservative at all. It is relatively easy to list his accomplishments:

1. While running for election in 2016, he promised a terrific healthcare plan that would put the Affordable Care Act to shame. He has accomplished spending most of his four years continuing to claim that his great plan was coming (a month ago he said probably in about two weeks), while only issuing an executive order for something that was already done with the Affordable Care Act (providing coverage for those with preexisting conditions.

2. While claiming to be the world's greatest dealmaker, he has accomplished the destruction of most of our trade agreements. In doing so, his new deals with these countries are either largely the same as before (the US, Canada, Mexico deal) or much worse (China).

3. Trump has bragged that he has accomplished what almost no one would believe possible and in the area of foreign policy, he is absolutely right. Almost no one would believe that he would worsen US relations with most of our longstanding friends, make our enemies more secure and would cozy up to some of the world's most autocratic leaders in Russia, Turkey, Brazil and North Korea.

4. Trump has accomplished a level unheard of in the areas of nepotism, self-dealing and patronage. I dare say that no president in our history has ever been so incompetent, yet he always seems to find someone else to blame or fire. I have never witnessed a president so adept in finding ways to circumvent accepted practices of governance and I have never seen one consider at least half of the nation's population as the enemy.

5. Trump has achieved previously unseen levels distain for the rule of law. He is the first to claim that his "authority is total" or that he can do anything he wants. He has accomplished a new standard for litigating his way out of problems.

6. He has succeeding in framing an investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election and a possible conspiracy of Trump campaign operatives as a probe into Trump collusion with Russia (something that was never part of Mueller's investigation). While the investigation could not prove conspiracy, it found significant activity that should have been better dealt with through congressional action. Mueller handed them a blueprint for action, but Congress blew it. So Trump was prematurely impeached and he accomplished being able to walk away relatively unscathed, while erroneously stating that he had been exonerated and it was proved that there was no collusion.

7. Trump has accomplished a division within the country on a level I haven't seen since Viet Nam. However, the division isn't along ideological lines. He stokes division because he believes that he can win elections that way. It isn't about policy or political philosophy, liberal or conservative; it is between Trump and anyone that stands in the way of him retaining power.

8. Trump has managed to retain his base of support in spite of his lying, his failures, his divisiveness, his catering to racists or his ineptitude. He has maintained about the same level of support in spite of a lack of a coherent plan on healthcare, education, agriculture, energy, the climate, science and technology or the economy. A huge tax cut without a plan to pay for it or spending proposals to justify it isn't a plan; it's shoot from the hip pandering to those who benefit most from it (a hint: it ain't you and me). He has retained most of his support for 2020 without even a hint of a plan of what he wants to do in a second term.

9.Trump has achieved the loyalty of evangelical Christians without believing most of the things that make them who they are. Even the smallest attempt to look at Trump critically should reveal to Christians that he is just using them. He uses the Bible as a prop and when he held one up at his photo op at the church across from the White House, it looked like he had never held a book before, much less a Bible. What message was he trying to convey? He had to be thinking, "if I walk over to the church and hold a Bible up like a statue, they will think I am on their side." And they are still buying it.

10. I could go on and on, but I will close this partial list with my personal favorite -- he has created such a toxic political environment, brought such disgrace to the office of the presidency and such ridicule from the world at large that even lifelong Republican voters like me will cast their vote for a Democrat this year. Maybe we can restore some decency to the presidency, because we know Trump isn't decent. Maybe we can hear some truth from our leaders, especially in times of crisis, because we know Trump is a natural liar. Maybe we can look to our leaders again to think more about what's in the interests of the American people, but we know Trump won't since he is a self-aggrandizing, self-interested narcissist. If the GOP ever returns to conservatism instead of populism, maybe I will come back to it, but the stink of Trumpism could be hard to wash off and too many have jumped head first into the deep end of that pool.

I realize that this is ripe for a TLDR, but you brought up Trump's accomplishments. If you want to discuss liberalism vs. socialism vs. conservatism, we can start another thread. I will be more than happy to have that conversation.

Post of the Year....IMO...well done Richard

 

[Richard]

If only more Conservatives had your principles.


All my life I’ve been a left-leaning Moderate.. but I’ve always appreciated Conservatives because i like the idea of having checks and balances.. Maybe one day (hopefully soon) we can get back to that.

Thanks. The true conservative is all about principles. As Russell Kirk would say, conservatism is not an ideology, but rather it is "a state of mind, a type of character, a way of looking at the civil social order." Conservatism as described in the political arena seems to be defined as adherence to certain policy positions, whereas the mindset of true conservatism isn't defined by policy or particular ideologies. In my view, the opposite of conservatism isn't liberalism (but only by a little ), it is radicalism, anarchy and the adoration of change over prudence.

If anyone is interested, my views on civil order were founded in the writings of Kirk, who wrote a terrific summary of the basic principles of conservatism. For anyone interested in politics and the difference between what I call true conservatives and some of the pseudo-conservatives of today, read Kirk's Ten Conservative Principles and see if you see conservatism in the people claiming that label today.

Ten Conservative Principles by Russell Kirk

Ten Conservative Principles by Russell Kirk: Conservatives recognize an enduring moral order & high duties toward the order spiritual & the order temporal.

theimaginativeconservative.org

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[The moose]

kind of off-topic, but i have long thought of driving, not a motorcycle, but a car/SUV into and across Mexico, specifically to the Riviera Maya.. Everythign i read seems to talk about the gangs of marauders who will accost you with machine guns and demand money at every intersection .. ok, I’m exaggerating but not by much.. Are those just fear mongering rumors, or is there validity to the idea that it’s dangerous for foreigners to drive in Mexico?

Well my plan is not real complex. Old motorcycle for the trip so I don't look like I have money. It turns twenty next year a BMW r1150rt only worth a few grand. Stay close to the gulf coast. The inner areas where the drug cartels take over. Cross at Brownsville.

Jesus I live in new Orleans how much worse can it be than neighborhoods in my town.

So yeah the plan was get about 2k miles from home that would get me to Cancun area and turn around and head home. At three weeks that would be a easy pace of about 200 a day.

I hate to tell ya that everyone told me other places were dangerous and I always felt safer than going to a gas station in New Orleans in the hood after dark.

I don't let others fear ruin my plans.

But no I would not do that trip on a bike or in a SUV that looked like I was filthy rich that is asking for problems and that is real easy cuz I don't have much.

 

[Richard]

Post of the Year....IMO...well done Richard

 

[MT15]

Richard, great post and you didn’t even mention what should be a deal breaker for even the most ardent Trump supporter, his ineffectual response to the pandemic. His lack of effort has put this nation in true jeopardy, both socially and economically.

Honestly, all he had to do to win re-election was to handle this pandemic according to established scientific principles. He didn’t even have to come up with a plan, as there was a general plan already in place left from the Bush Administration. Just had to follow it, or at the very least get out of the way of people who knew what to do. His botched job has cost tens of thousands of Americans their lives and we are still in the grip. We alone among industrialized nations have failed the hardest. This staggering level of deadly incompetence (if you are charitable) or indifference to the lives of Americans (more likely the truth) should be enough cause to even his greatest supporters to kick him out of power.

 

[Richard]

Richard, great post and you didn’t even mention what should be a deal breaker for even the most ardent Trump supporter, his ineffectual response to the pandemic. His lack of effort has put this nation in true jeopardy, both socially and economically.

Honestly, all he had to do to win re-election was to handle this pandemic according to established scientific principles. He didn’t even have to come up with a plan, as there was a general plan already in place left from the Bush Administration. Just had to follow it, or at the very least get out of the way of people who knew what to do. His botched job has cost tens of thousands of Americans their lives and we are still in the grip. We alone among industrialized nations have failed the hardest. This staggering level of deadly incompetence (if you are charitable) or indifference to the lives of Americans (more likely the truth) should be enough cause to even his greatest supporters to kick him out of power.

You are right obviously. When I was making the partial list, the pandemic was such low hanging fruit, I skipped over it entirely. Certainly anyone watching him fumble his way through the last six months should realize that Trump is not the guy you want in charge of a crisis. Trump makes Bush’s Katrina response look benign by comparison. A real leader with the nation’s (and the world’s) interest at heart would have gotten congressional leaders, physicians, scientists and logistics experts in a room and told them to forget what party they belong to and figure out what is best for the people who could be harmed. Trump got Jared and few lackies in a room and asked “how can this affect my reelection?”

There were many other areas I could have touched on — his ridiculous wall, his lack of a coherent and workable immigration policy, his hiring all of “the best people” before firing them and calling them inept, his inability to understand and react properly to the protests, his penchant for advisors with questionable agendas (Steve Miller, Bannon, Kudlow, Giuliani, etc.) and the list goes on and on.

I don’t think for a minute that I will agree with all or even most of Biden’s policy agenda once he is elected. But I would rather have Biden as POTUS and fight him on policies I disagree with than four years on the edge of a cliff with Trump.