What Will You Do? (1 Viewer)

[Mr. Blue Sky]

If Trump wins again in November (and for the record, i think he will- since he’s made it clear he’ll stop at nothing)- What will you do? It’s pretty apparent that he wants to be in power for life, and America will go down the road of countless countries before it, that we’ve all seen on the news and thought ‘It cant happen here’... If you dont think that this is the direction Trump will take us, then i will submit that you haven’t been paying attention... Of course, his followers will tell you the exact opposite- “If Trump doesnt win reelection, then we’re all doomed!!”.. Well, only one side can be right.. We cant both be ‘sort of’ correct... It’s a shame, becuase i used to be a moderate, but now due to Trump and his enablers/voters, it’s become more of an extremely high stakes team sport.. As your Dear Leader himself would say: “It is what it is.”

So back to my question: What , specifically, will you do if he wins? Where will you go? Canada , or Mexico? Elsewhere? Or stay and fight, and become like another Beirut, or Belarus, where protestors get dragged off in windowless vans .. Oh wait, that’s already happening here.. I am genuinely interested in whether any of yall are hatching an escape plan, or planning to do anything drastic.. As for me, the answer is I Dont Know... The only thing I’m sure of is i dont want to be around for two, or three, or four Trump ”terms” until he mercifully drops dead.

 

[Infoman]

Yea, no actually I have and you're still wrong.

Wasn't responding to you... I suspect you have based on your responses... but It's ok to disagree... I respect your take.

 

[TheRealTruth]

In terms of individual freedoms and least amount of government intrusions into our lives in either the forms of taxes or regulations. I would definitely say the United States is tops. In terms of education, healthcare, or focuses on multi-cultural diversity the United States is severely lacking.

Also, I do not see why people in this thread are so virulent toward infoman for his personal opinion.

 

[Taurus]

I suppose it would depend on how suspicious Trump's win actually is. How hard do the Russians rub our faces in it? I mean, Vlad Putin himself could come on TV and explicitly state that Russia rigged our election and Trump would do shirt-all about it. He'll take the tainted win every day of the week.
So, is it to be a victory like last time? One with a bit of odor about it, the usual voter suppression, strong suspicions but nothing concrete showing Russia directly interfering by changing votes or making them up out of thin air.
Or is it one that's really blatant? Massive, obvious suppression, like if Trump manages to cripple the Post Office to the point that states who've been doing mail-in voting for decades are suddenly no longer able to coupled with clear and obvious Russian tampering...more GOP votes than people in certain districts. ridiculous margins in others, a traceable digital footprint that points right at the Kremlin so we know for a fact the election was illegitimate.

 

[The moose]

Well, considering there are only 7 countries on the planet that haven't banned Americans from entering, I'd say I'm stuck here. None of those 7 seem like attractive living spots to me.

You are not kidding. Our sickly arses are not allowed anywhere fun.

I thought the trump game plan was keep people out heck we now can't go anywhere.

 

[UndecidedVoter2020]

I'm hoping for an electoral college margin of 412-126 in favor of Biden in order to quash any notion that the election was close and give Trump cover for his post-election shenanigans.

Ive been reading all these poasts trying to make sense of this election. If I vote purely on accomplishments I’d have to vote Trump. If I’m interested in giving socialism a go I’m going with Biden. Richard, you’re not a very moderate moderator lol I’m interested in what about Bidens platform you specifically like.

 

[Dragon]

Ive been reading all these poasts trying to make sense of this election. If I vote purely on accomplishments I’d have to vote Trump. If I’m interested in giving socialism a go I’m going with Biden. Richard, you’re not a very moderate moderator lol I’m interested in what about Bidens platform you specifically like.

What accomplishments?

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Ive been reading all these poasts trying to make sense of this election. If I vote purely on accomplishments I’d have to vote Trump. If I’m interested in giving socialism a go I’m going with Biden. Richard, you’re not a very moderate moderator lol I’m interested in what about Bidens platform you specifically like.

Might want to take a moment to familiarize yourself with the posting rules. Despite your screen name, you actually sound like you've more than made up your mind. That's borderline trolling and I think it would be good for everyone, yourself included, to eliminate that.

 

[The moose]

Ive been reading all these poasts trying to make sense of this election. If I vote purely on accomplishments I’d have to vote Trump. If I’m interested in giving socialism a go I’m going with Biden. Richard, you’re not a very moderate moderator lol I’m interested in what about Bidens platform you specifically like.

You can count me in that group of what accomplishments?

That wall? The massive hole he dug with the tax cuts for us the working class to pay? The pandemic response. I can go on and on. Heck the guy is responsible for pulling up mail boxes! How does that help Americans?

Are you really in a better place than you were four years ago?

I guess I need an explanation or the glasses you see the world thru.

 

[UndecidedVoter2020]

Might want to take a moment to familiarize yourself with the posting rules. Despite your screen name, you actually sound like you've more than made up your mind. That's borderline trolling and I think it would be good for everyone, yourself included, to eliminate that.

Odd. You think trolling is weighing in the balances capitalism that fueled an economy versus trying out socialism. If you’d like to reply to specifics I’m interested in your opinion. I generally detest preening posts like yours otherwise.

 

[UndecidedVoter2020]

You can count me in that group of what accomplishments?

That wall? The massive hole he dug with the tax cuts for us the working class to pay? The pandemic response. I can go on and on. Heck the guy is responsible for pulling up mail boxes! How does that help Americans?

Are you really in a better place than you were four years ago?

I guess I need an explanation or the glasses you see the world thru.

 

[Mr. Blue Sky]

You can count me in that group of what accomplishments?

That wall?

In fairness to the ‘Undecided Voter’ lady who posted above, Trump has indeed built a wall.. it’s just that the wall is around America and prevents us from traveling just about anywhere in the world right now.. Got my passport renewed at the end of 2019, now it’s useless.. then again, I’m guessing most Trump voters probably never had any desire to travel outside of ‘Merica anyway.. Thanks Trump!

 

[The moose]

In fairness to the ‘Undecided Voter’ lady who posted above, Trump has indeed built a wall.. it’s just that the wall is around America and prevents us from traveling just about anywhere in the world right now.. Got my passport renewed at the end of 2019, now it’s useless.. then again, I’m guessing most Trump voters probably never had any desire to travel outside of ‘Merica anyway.. Thanks Trump!

Well heck we can all still live in a van down by the river!

Sad part is a bunch of us are gonna be doing something similar with the employment and rent issues.

Sad thing is have been planning a motorcycle trip all along the gulf coast and into Mexico this fall for a couple years now. Was gonna be epic adventure. Had the beginning of November blocked out and was gonna be gone three weeks. Sad to say the pandemic ate all those funds and I can't even cross the border.

 

[insidejob]

Well heck we can all still live in a van down by the river!

Sad part is a bunch of us are gonna be doing something similar with the employment and rent issues.

Sad thing is have been planning a motorcycle trip all along the gulf coast and into Mexico this fall for a couple years now. Was gonna be epic adventure. Had the beginning of November blocked out and was gonna be gone three weeks. Sad to say the pandemic ate all those funds and I can't even cross the border.

If only there was someone we could squarely lay the blame for ruining your trip on. It's on the tip of my tongue, I just can't remember who screwed all this up!

 

[Mr. Blue Sky]

Well heck we can all still live in a van down by the river!

Sad part is a bunch of us are gonna be doing something similar with the employment and rent issues.

Sad thing is have been planning a motorcycle trip all along the gulf coast and into Mexico this fall for a couple years now. Was gonna be epic adventure. Had the beginning of November blocked out and was gonna be gone three weeks. Sad to say the pandemic ate all those funds and I can't even cross the border.

kind of off-topic, but i have long thought of driving, not a motorcycle, but a car/SUV into and across Mexico, specifically to the Riviera Maya.. Everythign i read seems to talk about the gangs of marauders who will accost you with machine guns and demand money at every intersection .. ok, I’m exaggerating but not by much.. Are those just fear mongering rumors, or is there validity to the idea that it’s dangerous for foreigners to drive in Mexico?

 

[CoolBrees]

When I worked in Piedras Negras, Mexico we weren’t “allowed” out of the Brewery Complex. We lived in Eagle Pass, Texas and crossed the boarder every day because the local authorities could not guarantee safety. We were warned about being out in town at all.

InBev had to work out a deal with the Mexican boarder patrol for us to cross in to Mexico at a special place at their office. We were on 10 day Visas instead of work visas because work visas raise suspicion. we had to re-up at a cost of $28 cash each day.l ($23 for the boarder $5 for the guy filing out your form). No change. No pesos Given or taken. InBev paid to have the road improved between the border and the faculty we were building so it could hold the trucking that is was about to undertake.

That and they allegedly paid $40 million to the local cartel so they would let the project go without harassment. That is the only part I don’t have first hand knowledge of

 

[MT15]

Odd. You think trolling is weighing in the balances capitalism that fueled an economy versus trying out socialism. If you’d like to reply to specifics I’m interested in your opinion. I generally detest preening posts like yours otherwise.

So you have twice said that Biden will be trying out socialism, without providing any examples. Could you point out any policies he backs that you think are socialist?

 

[Richard]

Ive been reading all these poasts trying to make sense of this election. If I vote purely on accomplishments I’d have to vote Trump. If I’m interested in giving socialism a go I’m going with Biden. Richard, you’re not a very moderate moderator lol I’m interested in what about Bidens platform you specifically like.

You are correct UV2020. I am not a very moderate moderator; I am a very conservative moderator. Unlike people who say they are conservative due to adherence to a handful of current day policy positions, I am a conservative who understands that the principles of conservatism are rooted in concepts. I could explain it all to you and I would be happy to do so, but that's not what you asked for. So to answer your interest, the most specific thing I like about Biden is that he is not Donald Trump.

I would also agree that Trump is very accomplished, but he is hardly conservative at all. It is relatively easy to list his accomplishments:

1. While running for election in 2016, he promised a terrific healthcare plan that would put the Affordable Care Act to shame. He has accomplished spending most of his four years continuing to claim that his great plan was coming (a month ago he said probably in about two weeks), while only issuing an executive order for something that was already done with the Affordable Care Act (providing coverage for those with preexisting conditions.

2. While claiming to be the world's greatest dealmaker, he has accomplished the destruction of most of our trade agreements. In doing so, his new deals with these countries are either largely the same as before (the US, Canada, Mexico deal) or much worse (China).

3. Trump has bragged that he has accomplished what almost no one would believe possible and in the area of foreign policy, he is absolutely right. Almost no one would believe that he would worsen US relations with most of our longstanding friends, make our enemies more secure and would cozy up to some of the world's most autocratic leaders in Russia, Turkey, Brazil and North Korea.

4. Trump has accomplished a level unheard of in the areas of nepotism, self-dealing and patronage. I dare say that no president in our history has ever been so incompetent, yet he always seems to find someone else to blame or fire. I have never witnessed a president so adept in finding ways to circumvent accepted practices of governance and I have never seen one consider at least half of the nation's population as the enemy.

5. Trump has achieved previously unseen levels distain for the rule of law. He is the first to claim that his "authority is total" or that he can do anything he wants. He has accomplished a new standard for litigating his way out of problems.

6. He has succeeding in framing an investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election and a possible conspiracy of Trump campaign operatives as a probe into Trump collusion with Russia (something that was never part of Mueller's investigation). While the investigation could not prove conspiracy, it found significant activity that should have been better dealt with through congressional action. Mueller handed them a blueprint for action, but Congress blew it. So Trump was prematurely impeached and he accomplished being able to walk away relatively unscathed, while erroneously stating that he had been exonerated and it was proved that there was no collusion.

7. Trump has accomplished a division within the country on a level I haven't seen since Viet Nam. However, the division isn't along ideological lines. He stokes division because he believes that he can win elections that way. It isn't about policy or political philosophy, liberal or conservative; it is between Trump and anyone that stands in the way of him retaining power.

8. Trump has managed to retain his base of support in spite of his lying, his failures, his divisiveness, his catering to racists or his ineptitude. He has maintained about the same level of support in spite of a lack of a coherent plan on healthcare, education, agriculture, energy, the climate, science and technology or the economy. A huge tax cut without a plan to pay for it or spending proposals to justify it isn't a plan; it's shoot from the hip pandering to those who benefit most from it (a hint: it ain't you and me). He has retained most of his support for 2020 without even a hint of a plan of what he wants to do in a second term.

9. Trump has achieved the loyalty of evangelical Christians without believing most of the things that make them who they are. Even the smallest attempt to look at Trump critically should reveal to Christians that he is just using them. He uses the Bible as a prop and when he held one up at his photo op at the church across from the White House, it looked like he had never held a book before, much less a Bible. What message was he trying to convey? He had to be thinking, "if I walk over to the church and hold a Bible up like a statue, they will think I am on their side." And they are still buying it.

10. I could go on and on, but I will close this partial list with my personal favorite -- he has created such a toxic political environment, brought such disgrace to the office of the presidency and such ridicule from the world at large that even lifelong Republican voters like me will cast their vote for a Democrat this year. Maybe we can restore some decency to the presidency, because we know Trump isn't decent. Maybe we can hear some truth from our leaders, especially in times of crisis, because we know Trump is a natural liar. Maybe we can look to our leaders again to think more about what's in the interests of the American people, but we know Trump won't since he is a self-aggrandizing, self-interested narcissist. If the GOP ever returns to conservatism instead of populism, maybe I will come back to it, but the stink of Trumpism could be hard to wash off and too many have jumped head first into the deep end of that pool.

I realize that this is ripe for a TLDR, but you brought up Trump's accomplishments. If you want to discuss liberalism vs. socialism vs. conservatism, we can start another thread. I will be more than happy to have that conversation.

 

[Mr. Blue Sky]

You are correct UV2020. I am not a very moderate moderator; I am a very conservative moderator.

If only more Conservatives had your principles.


All my life I’ve been a left-leaning Moderate.. but I’ve always appreciated Conservatives because i like the idea of having checks and balances.. Maybe one day (hopefully soon) we can get back to that.