What happens to the Republican Party now? (2 Viewers)

[MT15]

This election nonsense by Trump may end up splitting up the Republican Party. I just don’t see how the one third (?) who are principled conservatives can stay in the same party with Trump sycophants who are willing to sign onto the TX Supreme Court case.

We also saw the alt right types chanting “destroy the GOP” in Washington today because they didn’t keep Trump in power. I think the Q types will also hold the same ill will toward the traditional Republican Party. In fact its quite possible that all the voters who are really in a Trump personality cult will also blame the GOP for his loss. It’s only a matter of time IMO before Trump himself gets around to blaming the GOP.

There is some discussion of this on Twitter. What do you all think?

 

[cuddlemonkey]

What do you claIM i CANT UNDERSTAND

I don't think there's enough time in the day for you to read that list...

 

[the annoying thing]

I don't think there's enough time in the day for you to read that list...

really why is that ? explain your comment >

 

[Thinker]

Midterms are going to be very interesting
================
They are just three little words, but they have become nearly impossible for many Republicans to say: “Joe Biden won.”

Eleven months after the Democrat’s inauguration, Republican lawmakers and candidates across the country are squirming and stumbling rather than acknowledging the fact of Biden’s victory in the 2020 presidential election.

In debates and interviews, they offer circular statements or vague answers when asked whether they believe Biden won.

Yes or no?

In Minnesota this week, five GOP candidates for governor came up with 1,400 other words when asked by conservative radio host Hugh Hewitt for an answer.

On NBC’s “Meet the Press” on Sunday, GOP Sen. Roger Marshall of Kansas would only concede: “Joe Biden was sworn into office.”


The hazy statements are one measure of election denialism within the Republican Party. Former President Donald Trump’s lies about a stolen election have so taken hold among GOP voters that many of the party’s candidates either believe them or fear the political repercussions of refuting Trump.

That sets up a surreal dynamic for next year’s elections, where the toughest question posed to GOP candidates — particularly in primaries — may be one with a one-word answer that they’re reluctant to give……..

“It is an important question and needs to be framed, I think, as I did. I expect it will be often asked and answered (or not) of many candidates in the year ahead,” Hewitt tweeted after the Minnesota debate.

The answers demonstrate the pressure for Republican primary candidates to appeal to, or at least not offend, the vocal Trump wing of the party, strategists say.

“In today’s grim Republican Party, the was-the-election-legit question has become a litmus test for whether you are truly loyal to the Republican Trumpist tribe or not,” said Mike Murphy, a veteran Republican strategist and Trump critic……

Republicans resist saying 3 simple words: 'Joe Biden won'

They are just three little words, but they have become nearly impossible for many Republicans to say: “Joe Biden won.”

apnews.com

If

Guess this goes here

Is this normal?

Has the RNC or DNC ever paid a former presidents personal legal expenses before?

And if it's not normal (and I suspect it isn't) this should be a bigger story

If it came out that the DNC paid one of Obama’s parking tickets Fox would lose its shirt
======================

The Republican Party has agreed to pay up to $1.6 million in legal bills for former president Donald Trump to help him fight investigations into his business practices in New York, according to Republican National Committee members and others briefed on the decision.


The party’s executive committee overwhelmingly approved the payments at a meeting this summer in Nashville, according to four members and others with knowledge of the situation who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe a private meeting of the executive committee.


That means the GOP’s commitment to pay Trump’s personal legal expenses could be more than 10 times higher than previously known.


Last month, the GOP said in campaign-finance filings that it had paid Trump’s personal attorneys $121,670 in October. More payments have been made since then.

A party official said Thursday that the RNC paid $578,000 in November to attorneys known to be representing both Trump and his businesses.

The payments are expected to continue over the coming months, and the executive committee could approve amounts beyond $1.6 million if it chooses, the people familiar with the decision said.

The payments are meant to help Trump defend himself against two parallel investigations of his business: a civil probe by New York Attorney General Letitia James (D) and a criminal investigation by James and Manhattan District Attorney Cyrus R. Vance Jr. (D).

“The RNC’s Executive Committee approved paying for certain legal expenses that relate to politically motivated legal proceedings waged against President Trump,” said Emma Vaughn, a GOP spokeswoman, in a statement Thursday.

“As a leader of our party, defending President Trump and his record of achievement is critical to the GOP. It is entirely appropriate for the RNC to continue assisting in fighting back against the Democrats’ never ending witch hunt and attacks on him.”……….

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...2/16/08af4524-5c3f-11ec-9c0e-a955f8a009c1_sto

http://

There used to be more... I guess what some refer to as conservative these days. Many of them seemed to flame out and get banned.
I'm curious, what do you personally consider is conservative? what do you consider as liberal? Are you talking about modern day conservative?
I do kind of wish @Richard would post more often on here though. He is an old-school conservative and would make some really thought provoking posts on here from time to time.

Seems Steve is looking for some reaffirmation to continue support for DJT. Maybe he and others are beginning the process of opening a closed mind? The United States of America is facing a far greater issue than discussion regarding DJT, with the 2022 midterms having the real possibility of determining the very future of the USA. Hardly the time to cast one's vote with the exclamation that "that is how I have always voted or done it that way". Will the United States of America celebrate it's 250th birthday in 2026??

 

[zztop]

spoiler alert: it wasn't from Voltaire

Rep. Thomas Massie shared a quote on Twitter he misattributed to French philosopher Voltaire. It was actually said by an American neo-Nazi.

The quote shared by Massie was traced to Kevin Alfred Strom, who in 2007 was charged with possessing and receiving child sexual-abuse images.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[MT15]

Not only that, plenty of people are openly criticizing Fauci and nobody is being persecuted or imprisoned for criticizing Fauci. The urge to claim victim hood over absolutely nothing is strong.

 

[SystemShock]

spoiler alert: it wasn't from Voltaire

Rep. Thomas Massie shared a quote on Twitter he misattributed to French philosopher Voltaire. It was actually said by an American neo-Nazi.

The quote shared by Massie was traced to Kevin Alfred Strom, who in 2007 was charged with possessing and receiving child sexual-abuse images.

www.businessinsider.com

To be fair, that statement rings rue; case and point in the U.S., the GOP. It is definitely true in other countries. And However, no one says one cannot criticize Fauci; one just has to present a sound argument.

 

[MT15]

I love this. At least two Rs with the nerve to label Trump a loser. It’s accurate and I hope to god it means that the R party will start to disengage from Trump.

 

[SFIDC3]

I love this. At least two Rs with the nerve to label Trump a loser. It’s accurate and I hope to god it means that the R party will start to disengage from Trump.

Not to burst your bubble, but in the case of Gov Hogan he has been critical of Trump for a few years now....this is nothing new....

 

[insidejob]

Not to burst your bubble, but in the case of Gov Hogan he has been critical of Trump for a few years now....this is nothing new....

He'd be a GOP Rock Star if the party weren't currently a Trumpist cult.

 

[Saintamaniac]

I love this. At least two Rs with the nerve to label Trump a loser. It’s accurate and I hope to god it means that the R party will start to disengage from Trump.

Don't hold your breath. While the Trumplican party may begin to disengage from Trump in drips and drabs, they will remain steadfastly engaged in trumpism. That is all they have at this point.

 

[SFIDC3]

He'd be a GOP Rock Star if the party weren't currently a Trumpist cult.

He is a decent man at least, I don't agree with many of his views/policies but he has handled Covid about as well as any governor IMO....I agree with above....

 

[insidejob]

He is a decent man at least, I don't agree with many of his views/policies but he has handled Covid about as well as any governor IMO....I agree with above....

Same here. I don't think he'd happily take part in the current GOP platform of "own the libs...that's all." and join forces with any of the anti-America MTG's or Boeboebert's in actively trying to tear the country apart. While I too may not agree with his views/policies, at least he's got views and policies - that's a lot more than can be said of the National GOP as a whole - and he seems like someone who'd be happy to work together to move forward rather than pretend like there is some magical reset to pre-COVID or pre-Trump anything. The GOP needs a lot more of people like him than they do mini-fascists like Josh Hawley becoming "rising stars" in the party.

 

[Optimus Prime]

I live in Maryland and people here think that he's definitely running in 24

And I've said this before, I won't go as far as to say I'd vote for him, I'm nearly positive that I wouldn't, but I'd think about it harder than I would just about anyone else the GOP would run

And if I didn't vote for him and he won, I'd be okay with it. Meaning it would be more disagreeing with policy and not wondering if America is falling apart

That said, Hogan is a republican governor of a blue state. Like anyone in that situation how much is their true selves and opinions and how much is just the political reality they face?

Does Hogan change when his reality does? Oh, I don't know, like when say running for president and needing the base and right leaning independents

 

[samiam5211]

I live in Maryland and people here think that he's definitely running in 24

And I've said this before, I won't go as far as to say I'd vote for him, I'm nearly positive that I wouldn't, but I'd think about it harder than I would just about anyone else the GOP would run

And if I didn't vote for him and he won, I'd be okay with it. Meaning it would be more disagreeing with policy and not wondering if America is falling apart

That said, Hogan is a republican governor of a blue state. Like anyone in that situation how much is their true selves and opinions and how much is just the political reality they face?

Does Hogan change when his reality does? Oh, I don't know, like when say running for president and needing the base and right leaning independents

I’m almost to the point of voting for a moderate Republican over any democratic candidate for President.

I am not sure any policy related positions I hold are as important as slowing down extremism at least for now.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Not sure if this is the best place for this article but not sure it needed its own thread

Talking about the extreme factions of both the left and right

Both sides is a common rebuttal but both sides does not mean both sides are equal
================================================

America is having an illiberal moment, with parts of both the right and left flirting openly with illiberalism. Both are dangerous. But which danger is more clear and present?

To get at this, we have to start by settling on a definition of illiberalism.

I posit that a working definition of illiberalism that applies to both left and right might be summarized as any system of beliefs which run counter to the political philosophy summarized in the Declaration of Independence.

The Declaration’s main principles are political egalitarianism; human rights; limited government; electoral democracy; the legitimacy of change; the rule of law; and tolerance. You could define illiberalism many ways, but an easy one would be: any explicit rejection of, or attack on, that order. Any ideology of whatever orientation, right or left, that explicitly repudiates these principles is illiberal.

Some illiberal ideologies are well known. On the left are all forms of communism—Leninism, Maoism, Guevarism, Trotskyism, etc.—some forms of Marxism, anarchism, and others. On the right are all forms of fascism, authoritarianism, theocracy, all forms of racial domination, etc.

In recent years, a menagerie of right-wing illiberal ideologies has re-emerged or sprung up: neo-Nazis, KKK groups, anti-Semitic movements, and newcomers such as the Alt-Right, the Alt-Lite, the Manosphere, the Dark Enlightenment, the European New Right, White Supremacy, and more.

Which of these two sets of illiberal ideologies—the right or the left– represents the greatest threat to liberal democracy right now?.............

Both the Right and Left Have Illiberal Factions. Which Is More Dangerous?

A quantitative analysis.

www.thebulwark.com

 

[brandon]

Not sure if this is the best place for this article but not sure it needed its own thread

Talking about the extreme factions of both the left and right

Both sides is a common rebuttal but both sides does not mean both sides are equal
================================================

America is having an illiberal moment, with parts of both the right and left flirting openly with illiberalism. Both are dangerous. But which danger is more clear and present?

To get at this, we have to start by settling on a definition of illiberalism.

I posit that a working definition of illiberalism that applies to both left and right might be summarized as any system of beliefs which run counter to the political philosophy summarized in the Declaration of Independence.

The Declaration’s main principles are political egalitarianism; human rights; limited government; electoral democracy; the legitimacy of change; the rule of law; and tolerance. You could define illiberalism many ways, but an easy one would be: any explicit rejection of, or attack on, that order. Any ideology of whatever orientation, right or left, that explicitly repudiates these principles is illiberal.

Some illiberal ideologies are well known. On the left are all forms of communism—Leninism, Maoism, Guevarism, Trotskyism, etc.—some forms of Marxism, anarchism, and others. On the right are all forms of fascism, authoritarianism, theocracy, all forms of racial domination, etc.

In recent years, a menagerie of right-wing illiberal ideologies has re-emerged or sprung up: neo-Nazis, KKK groups, anti-Semitic movements, and newcomers such as the Alt-Right, the Alt-Lite, the Manosphere, the Dark Enlightenment, the European New Right, White Supremacy, and more.

Which of these two sets of illiberal ideologies—the right or the left– represents the greatest threat to liberal democracy right now?.............

Both the Right and Left Have Illiberal Factions. Which Is More Dangerous?

A quantitative analysis.

www.thebulwark.com

This has been my point about "both sides!" all along.

The problem is very much with one side.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

Not sure if this is the best place for this article but not sure it needed its own thread

Talking about the extreme factions of both the left and right

Both sides is a common rebuttal but both sides does not mean both sides are equal
================================================

America is having an illiberal moment, with parts of both the right and left flirting openly with illiberalism. Both are dangerous. But which danger is more clear and present?

To get at this, we have to start by settling on a definition of illiberalism.

I posit that a working definition of illiberalism that applies to both left and right might be summarized as any system of beliefs which run counter to the political philosophy summarized in the Declaration of Independence.

The Declaration’s main principles are political egalitarianism; human rights; limited government; electoral democracy; the legitimacy of change; the rule of law; and tolerance. You could define illiberalism many ways, but an easy one would be: any explicit rejection of, or attack on, that order. Any ideology of whatever orientation, right or left, that explicitly repudiates these principles is illiberal.

Some illiberal ideologies are well known. On the left are all forms of communism—Leninism, Maoism, Guevarism, Trotskyism, etc.—some forms of Marxism, anarchism, and others. On the right are all forms of fascism, authoritarianism, theocracy, all forms of racial domination, etc.

In recent years, a menagerie of right-wing illiberal ideologies has re-emerged or sprung up: neo-Nazis, KKK groups, anti-Semitic movements, and newcomers such as the Alt-Right, the Alt-Lite, the Manosphere, the Dark Enlightenment, the European New Right, White Supremacy, and more.

Which of these two sets of illiberal ideologies—the right or the left– represents the greatest threat to liberal democracy right now?.............

Both the Right and Left Have Illiberal Factions. Which Is More Dangerous?

A quantitative analysis.

www.thebulwark.com

I don't think there's any question which side poses the greatest threat. It's the right by a distance equal to or greater than Secretariat's lead at the finish of the Belmont.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Remember when Sean Spicer did Dancing with the Stars?