What happens to the Republican Party now? (1 Viewer)

[MT15]

This election nonsense by Trump may end up splitting up the Republican Party. I just don’t see how the one third (?) who are principled conservatives can stay in the same party with Trump sycophants who are willing to sign onto the TX Supreme Court case.

We also saw the alt right types chanting “destroy the GOP” in Washington today because they didn’t keep Trump in power. I think the Q types will also hold the same ill will toward the traditional Republican Party. In fact its quite possible that all the voters who are really in a Trump personality cult will also blame the GOP for his loss. It’s only a matter of time IMO before Trump himself gets around to blaming the GOP.

There is some discussion of this on Twitter. What do you all think?

 

[MT15]

We are seeing power grabs like this in multiple states. Who cares if an official is duly elected? If they don’t go along with our ideas, the will of the people be damned.

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[DaveXA]

Texas Republicans have no good argument to justify the state’s construction of buoys separated by circular saw blades in the Rio Grande. This dangerous stunt is a clear violation of federal law, which grants the federal government—not Texas—control over the river. So GOP lawmakers and lawyers have fallen back on a series of claims that run from disturbing to comical.

They say the Rio Grande, which law enforcement navigates every day, is not “navigable.” They assert that Texas is under “invasion” by “thousands of aliens” that warrants the use of force to repel migrants, and potentially merits the invasion of Mexico by state law enforcement. And they fall back on the story of Noah’s Ark to bolster their defense. Yes, the tale of the divine deluge has been invoked in support of a death trap meant to turn back migrants fleeing violence and poverty. Just as the Bible intended.

The buoy border, a project of Republican Gov. Greg Abbott, is part of Operation Lone Star, the state’s broader crackdown on unauthorized migration. This operation has been a multibillion-dollar failure with no apparent impact on illegal crossings. State troops and National Guardsmen stationed at the border reportedly have little to do, and suicide is rising in their ranks at an alarming rate.

In July, a whistleblower reported that Guardsmen were instructed to line the river with razor wire and push migrants who got caught in it, including children and pregnant women, back into the water. Abbott added the buoys—which use serrated metal plates to pierce the flesh of anyone who tries to pass them—as a direct affront to the Biden administration, which has jurisdiction over the river. The Department of Justice promptly sued, citing the Rivers and Harbors Appropriation Act of 1899, which prohibits “the building” of any “structure” or “obstruction” in a “navigable river” without permission from the federal government.

Abbott’s lawyers, aided by a group of mostly Texan GOP congressmen, filed their response on Wednesday, and it is, to put it mildly, not the work of serious people. Their defense rests on two basic arguments, one amusingly asinine, the other deeply disturbing. First, Texas Republicans argue that the portion of the Rio Grande is not a “navigable river” and that, even if it were, the buoys don’t interfere with navigation; either way, they say, the structure does not fall under the Rivers and Harbors Appropriation Act.

Unfortunately for Texas, the U.S. Coast Guard has explicitly found that this entire stretch of the Rio Grande is navigable, as has the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. This fact is supported by the reality that law enforcement vessels can and do navigate this portion of the river. Moreover, a federal study found that the buoys do interfere with navigation, contrary to Texas’ baseless assertion. But that’s actually irrelevant, because the law prohibits all unapproved “structures” in the Rio Grande, regardless of whether they interfere with navigation.

Faced with these facts, the congressmen defending the buoys pivot to the Bible. In their brief, they take issue with the Justice Department’s claim that the river is still legally “navigable,” noting that at certain points it becomes unnavigable because of changing depths, currents, dams, or other factors. The DOJ’s “theory” that a river is still “navigable” even when some parts become unnavigable, they declare, “would lead to absurd” outcomes because “most of Texas was once covered by seas.”

But don’t just trust the geological record; also consider “the Book of Genesis,” which, taken “literally,” says “the entire world was once navigable by boats large enough to carry significant amounts of livestock.” For support, the brief cites Genesis 7:17–20, which tells the story of Noah’s Ark. Checkmate, libs.............

MSN

I don't understand why this still an issue and what's talking so long for the feds to go in and remove them. They clearly have jurisdiction and if Texas wants to challenge it, they can do so in Federal court. The feds just need to go ahead and remove them and send Texas the bill for cost of removal and disposal.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

We are seeing power grabs like this in multiple states. Who cares if an official is duly elected? If they don’t go along with our ideas, the will of the people be damned.

x.com

x.com

This is standard operating procedures for the Republican Party these days. They have graduated from voter suppression to straight-up ignoring the voters.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Christianity and the “powers that be” have weathered two millennia, their relationship varying by time and place. Pontius Pilate condemned Jesus to the cross. Emperor Constantine converted. Henry VIII broke from Rome and founded the Church of England. In the US, the denominational divides of protestantism helped drive the revolution and provided fuel for the civil war.

In his new book, the Rev Russell Moore opens a chapter, “Losing Our Authority: How the Truth Can Save”, with the words “Jesus Saves”, followed by a new historical tableau: January 6 and the threat Donald Trump and the mob posed to democracy and Mike Pence.

“That the two messages, a gallows and ‘Jesus Saves’ could coexist is a sign of crisis for American Christianity,” Moore writes.

Heading toward the Iowa caucus, Trump runs six points better among white evangelicals than overall. As for the devout Pence, a plurality of white evangelicals view him unfavorably.

Moore is mindful of history, and the roles Christianity has played: “Parts of the church were wrong – satanically wrong – on issues of righteousness and justice, such as the Spanish Inquisition and the scourge of human slavery.” He is editor-in-chief of Christianity Today, a publication founded by Billy Graham. Losing Our Religion offers a mixture of lament and hope. In places, its sadness is tinged with anger. In the south, the expression “losing my religion”, popularized by REM in a 1991 song, “conveys the moment when ‘politeness gives way to anger’,” Moore explains.

Moore’s public and persistent opposition to the election of Trump set him apart from most white evangelicals and would lead to his departure from the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC).

“The man on the throne in heaven is a dark-skinned, Aramaic-speaking ‘foreigner’, who is probably not all that impressed by chants of “Make America great again,” Moore wrote in spring 2016. “Regardless of the outcome in November, [Trump’s] campaign is forcing American Christians to grapple with some scary realities that will have implications for years to come.”

He was prescient. Graham’s son, Franklin, threatened Americans with God’s wrath if they had the temerity to criticize Trump. At the time, Moore was president of the SBC ethics and religious liberty commission. His politics forced him to choose. He opted for Christ and his convictions. He joined a nondenominational church...........

Against the backdrop of rising Christian nationalism and January 6, Moore reads the writing on the wall. He is troubled by the shrinking gap between Christian nationalism and neo-paganism. “The step before replacing Jesus with Thor is to turn Jesus into Thor,” he observes. Moore found the presence of prayers in “‘Jesus’s name’ right next to a horn-wearing pagan shaman in the well of the evacuated United States Senate” disturbing, but not coincidental.

The Magasphere and Twitterverse bolster Moore’s conclusions.

“President Trump will be arrested during Lent – a time of suffering and purification for the followers of Jesus Christ,” Joseph McBride, a rightwing lawyer who represents several insurrectionists, tweeted last March. “As Christ was crucified, and then rose again on the third day, so too will Donald Trump.”

Caesar as deity. We’ve seen that movie before. McBride, however, did not stop there.

Hours later, he tweeted: “JESUS LOVES DONALD TRUMP. JESUS DIED FOR DONALD TRUMP. JESUS LIVES INSIDE DONALD TRUMP. DEAL WITH IT.”...........

Losing Our Religion review: Trump and the crisis of US Christianity

Russell Moore, formerly of the Southern Baptist Convention, thinks evangelicals have come dangerous adrift of morality

www.theguardian.com

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

I'm curious as to why our resident conservatives who are against CRT seem to stay clear of any response to this PragerU stuff?

 

[Optimus Prime]

Perhaps the most consequential partisan failure of the past three decades is the Republican Party’s inability — or unwillingness — to win over Black conservatives.


Maybe you’ve heard otherwise. Supposedly, the party made inroads with Black voters during the Trump presidency.

You may have thought that the historic number of Black Republicans in today’s Congress — five, the most since 1877, when it was still the pro-civil rights party — signaled a turning tide.

Wrong on both counts.

The small rise in Black support for the GOP under Trump only partially recovered the significant ground lost during Barack Obama’s presidential campaigns. And those five lawmakers arrived under cover of the successive movements that have captured the Republican Party: the tea party and Trumpism.


In truth, the Republican Party is in a historic rut with Black voters — its worst 15-year stretch since Black men gained access to the ballot box in 1870. And the party’s ability to make Republicans of the nearly 1 in 5 Black voters who identify as conservative has gone from bad to comical.

I can assure you that in predominantly Black places — the shops and social and civic organizations and group chats and churches and so on — there has been a chuckle or two about Republicans consistently fumbling the opportunity. Most often, it’s not ridicule as much as it is genuine amusement — followed, as predictably, by something like, “The racism, though.”

Among White voters, it is mostly true that conservatives are Republicans. When you are talking about Black people, the relationship breaks down. Some of that is because the groups define and practice conservatism differently. But more than that, the GOP’s brand has become toxic to most Black voters; the party’s recent reputation — no longer the party of Abraham Lincoln or Theodore Roosevelt or even Ronald Reagan — precedes it.

The result is interesting: Being a Black Republican is stigmatized in a way that being a Black conservative is not. The former comes with a well-earned social penalty, that the latter does not. And that contributes to the party being especially unappealing to a great many Black voters. We need look no further than recent events in Florida to see why……

That mix of attacks on their race, masculinity and character by someone in their own party is wild. The central accusation in each, though, is familiar: Black Republicans will, if pushed, choose melanin over values, race over America.

The same was said of Colin Powell when he announced his support for Obama: it was only because “melanin is thicker than water.”


This is the world Black Republicans have chosen to join. And the majority of Black conservatives roundly reject it. Who wants to face routine intraparty tests of where one’s first loyalties lie — with race or party?……

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/08/14/black-voters-republican-party-failure-support/

 

[MT15]

I'm curious as to why our resident conservatives who are against CRT seem to stay clear of any response to this PragerU stuff?

It confirms their world view. Heck, we’ve heard the same talking points from them at times.

 

[MT15]

I worry that the GOP (what’s left of them), will be totally incapable of breaking free from Trump.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

I worry that the GOP (what’s left of them), will be totally incapable of breaking free from Trump.

As long as the GOP is afraid to lose the support of Trump's base they won't break free of him and in the final analysis that's up to the GOP's membership. The membership elected him, they, a significant number anyway, support him now, and they very well might elect him again.

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

As long as the GOP is afraid to lose the support of Trump's base they won't break free of him and in the final analysis that's up to the GOP's membership. The membership elected him, they, a significant number anyway, support him now, and they very well might elect him again.

The GOP doesn't care who it is, as long as he has the R next to his name, that is all they are worried about.

 

[SteveSBrickNJ]

I found this video to be interesting and the host is very likeable...
*

 

[Optimus Prime]

The GOP doesn't care who it is, as long as he has the R next to his name, that is all they are worried about.

Disagree with this

The party has had ample opportunities to wash their hands of Trump. Starting with Jan 6th and 2nd impeachment

They've had many chances since then. They are still choosing not to after FOUR criminal indictments (maybe 5 is the magic number), plus a conviction for sexual assault

They could have cast him out and had a battle for the next chosen one

For whatever reason they continue to hitch their wagon to Trump (being terrified of Trump's base is as likely as reason as anything else)

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if privately more than a few of the GOP hopes he passes away before the primaries

They get to blame his death on the stress of the liberal deep state witch hunts. Trump becomes a martyr. A legend who can be invoked constantly but can't roll the wagon off a cliff
They get to move on without cutting ties and angering the base

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

Disagree with this

The party has had ample opportunities to wash their hands of Trump. Starting with Jan 6th and 2nd impeachment

They've had many chances since then. They are still choosing not to after FOUR criminal indictments (maybe 5 is the magic number), plus a conviction for sexual assault

They could have cast him out and had a battle for the next chosen one

For whatever reason they continue to hitch their wagon to Trump (being terrified of Trump's base is as likely as reason as anything else)

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if privately more than a few of the GOP hopes he passes away before the primaries

They get to blame his death on the stress of the liberal deep state witch hunts. Trump becomes a martyr. A legend who can be invoked constantly but can't roll the wagon off a cliff
They get to move on without cutting ties and angering the base

But Trump is who majority of their voter base wants, so that is who the GOP will defend/follow.
The GOP could care less about the idictments or anything Trump does as long as he gets the votes.

 

[Optimus Prime]

But Trump is who majority of their voter base wants, so that is who the GOP will defend/follow.
The GOP could care less about the idictments or anything Trump does as long as he gets the votes.

I see what you're saying now

They are opportunists who're following where the wind is blowing but have no personal loyalty or convictions themselves one way or the other

But if they impeached him in Jan 2021 the voter base would have had no choice but to choose someone else. As long as Trump is an option they'll choose Trump

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

I see what you're saying now

They are opportunists who're following where the wind is blowing but have no personal loyalty or convictions themselves one way or the other

But if they impeached him in Jan 2021 the voter base would have had no choice but to choose someone else. As long as Trump is an option they'll choose Trump

Unfortunatly...

 

[SFIDC3]

I worry that the GOP (what’s left of them), will be totally incapable of breaking free from Trump.

Pence is one of the most bizarre individuals in the history of politics.....Trump just didn't put him in danger at the Capital, his family was with him there. Some kind of twisted family values type of guy I suppose....who puts party/Trump before family? Just utterly bizarre....

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

Pence is one of the most bizarre individuals in the history of politics.....Trump just didn't put him in danger at the Capital, his family was with him there. Some kind of twisted family values type of guy I suppose....who puts party/Trump before family? Just utterly bizarre....

and not only the J6 situation, Trump continuisly puts him down like a dog and Pence just sits back and takes it.

 

[coldseat]

These guys need to get new talking points. It's like a stale, broken record every time. America is bored

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GOP presidential candidate Tim Scott responded to the latest indictment of Donald Trump by saying that the country’s legal system is “being weaponized against political opponents” and describing that development as “un-American and unacceptable.”

“At the end of the day, we need a better system than that,” Scott told reporters at the Iowa State Fair on Tuesday. “I frankly hope to be the president of the United States — where we have an opportunity to restore confidence and integrity in all of our justice in the country.”
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/08/15/trump-indictment-georgia-charges-fulton-county/#link-XFTDV3X2JVD2BOAMK4G4VMQU2E