What happens to the Republican Party now? (2 Viewers)

[MT15]

This election nonsense by Trump may end up splitting up the Republican Party. I just don’t see how the one third (?) who are principled conservatives can stay in the same party with Trump sycophants who are willing to sign onto the TX Supreme Court case.

We also saw the alt right types chanting “destroy the GOP” in Washington today because they didn’t keep Trump in power. I think the Q types will also hold the same ill will toward the traditional Republican Party. In fact its quite possible that all the voters who are really in a Trump personality cult will also blame the GOP for his loss. It’s only a matter of time IMO before Trump himself gets around to blaming the GOP.

There is some discussion of this on Twitter. What do you all think?

 

[LA - L.A.]

It's weird, I don't usually vote for people's past. Not sure why a politician would need to fabricate their history. I get people look for creds but really, unless you have a criminal history, I don't see a need to embellish.

But I guess this goes on more often than we like to admit. I've had friends who like to embellish stories from their past, so seeing politicians do it I guess isn't surprising.

They didn't lie about their past to run for office. They had already made up those lies about their past, before they ran for office. They are all con people, con as in confidence.

Proven con people, not just speculated and conjectured ones, are being drawn to the Republican party in droves. That pretty much says all there is to know about the current state of the Republican party and voters.

 

[Snarky Sack]

Ya GOT me!

 

[Optimus Prime]

guess this can go here. Good article

The right has completely co-opted the term (amongst others)

I've said before that I know that the group Patriots for Freedom & Liberty is a group I want no part of

================================

Millions of Americans will attend parades, fireworks and other Independence Day events on Tuesday, celebrating the courage of the nation’s 18th century patriots who fought for independence from Great Britain and what they considered an unjust government. Those events also will honor the military and those who sacrificed in other conflicts that helped preserve the nation’s freedom over its 247-year history.

That is only one version of a “patriot.” Today, the word and its variants have morphed beyond the original meaning. It has become infused in political rhetoric and school curriculums, with varying definitions, while being appropriated by white nationalist groups. Trying to define what a patriot is depends on who is being asked.

While the word’s origins come from ancient Greece, its basic meaning in American history is someone who loves his or her country.

The original patriots come from the American Revolution, most often associated with figures such as Sam Adams and Benjamin Franklin. But enslaved people who advocated for abolition and members of native communities trying to recover or retain their sovereignty also saw themselves as patriots, said Nathaniel Sheidley, president and CEO of Revolutionary Spaces in Boston. The group runs the Old State House and Old South Meeting House, which played central roles in the revolution.

“They took part in the American Revolution. There were working people advocating for their voices to be heard in the political process,” Sheidley said.

The hallmark of patriotism then, he said, was “a sense of self-sacrifice, of caring more about one’s neighbors and fellow community members than one’s self.”

In some ways, the view of patriotism has always been on parallel tracks with civic and ethnic nationalism, historians say.

“Patriotism really depends on which American is describing himself as patriotic and what version or vision of the country they hold dear,” said Matthew Delmont, a historian at Dartmouth.

Opposition to government and dissent have been common features of how patriotism has been defined, he said. He cited the example of Black military members who fought in World War II and advocated for civil rights when they returned. They also saw themselves as patriots.

“Part of patriotism for them meant not just winning the war, but then coming home and trying to change America, trying to continue to fight for civil rights and to have actual freedom and democracy here in the United States,” Delmont said.

For many white Americans who see themselves as patriotic, “They’re thinking of other white Americans as the true definition of Americans,” Delmont said.

HOW THE DEFINITION HAS EVOLVED​

Far-right and extremist groups have branded themselves with American motifs and the term “patriot” since at least the early 20th century, when the second Ku Klux Klan became known for the slogan “100% Americanism,” said Mark Pitcavage, senior research fellow at the Anti-Defamation League’s Center on Extremism.

By the 1990s, so many antigovernment and militia groups were using the term to describe themselves that watchdog groups referred to it as the “ Patriot movement.”

That extremist wave, which included Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh, faded in the late 1990s and early 2000s. But many such groups resurfaced when Barack Obama became president, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center, which closely tracked the movement.

Since then, many right-wing groups have called themselves “patriots” as they’ve fought election processes, LGBTQ+ rights, vaccines, immigration, diversity programs in schools and more. Former President Donald Trump frequently refers to his supporters as “patriots.”

HOW WHITE NATIONALIST GROUPS USE IT​

The term works as a branding tool because many Americans have a positive association with “patriot,” which hearkens back to the Revolutionary War soldiers who beat the odds to found the country, said Kurt Braddock, an American University professor and researcher at the Polarization and Extremism Research & Innovation Lab.

One example is the white supremacist militia group Patriot Front, which researchers say uses patriotism as a sort of camouflage to hide racist and bigoted values. Some white nationalist groups may genuinely view themselves as pushing back against tyranny — even if in reality they are “very selective” about what parts of the Constitution they want to defend, Braddock said................

In a polarized US, how to define a patriot increasingly depends on who's being asked

Millions of Americans will attend parades, fireworks, barbecues and other Independence Day events, celebrating the courage and sacrifices of the nation’s 18th century patriots, but that is only one version of a “patriot.”

apnews.com

 

[Optimus Prime]

 

[Optimus Prime]

Josh Hawley tweets fake Founding Father quote claiming US was founded on Christianity

Missouri senator’s tweet sees community note attached noting false attribution

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

not fake, just "alternative facts"...lol

 

[Snarky Sack]

I love a Texas state employee with their summer's off to get drunk and go defend the border telling a person who works a much more technically advanced and difficult job where they should do it. You drive a van for a living and take four kids to the zoo. I dated a SE teacher.

Good. You would need one to explain things slowly and in multiple ways to you. The generosity of women never ceases to amaze me.

Texas is #35th in education. Maybe if you got to work on lesson plans instead of making shirt up in the internet your kids might have a chance of not working at one of those shirtty jobs.

My students do fine. They frequently visit as adults to thank me for helping them so much. I don't waste my time with lesson plans, I'm not a GE teacher.

 

[Snarky Sack]

For all of the complaining you do about how you are treated here- and this is for @SaintForLife to look at as well since he has an issue with how conservatives are treated- this is the most ridiculous personal attack I've seen on this board. If you are genuinely a 60-something-year-old guy, you ought to be ashamed that you behave like a child.

I can't speak for her, but I can speak for myself, I get far more done working at home than I do at the office. For example, it takes me less time to process entires at home because the office location where I work has more service interruptions than I do at home.

I get interrupted from what I'm working on much less than I do in the office. Meetings go quicker when done via teams and we don't have to spend time reserving an interpreter for a given on site meeting. Same for individual meetings. I use Teams and the relay service. I can use them in the office as well, but it's easier from my home office.

And there's travel. Instead of wasting 2 hours a day commenting, I can put in a little extra time to finish projects or transactions I'm working on.

I'm frustrated with you because you're attacking people like me who are actually trying to make an honest living and and you have no idea until you're in my shoes. Until you do, I suggest you have a little empathy. The way you talk makes me feel like you're only interested in winning an argument and don't care about people. That's what I get from reading your posts.

Fwiw, I deleted a couple of posts because yeah, I was angry.

F him. He deserves a lot more than what you gave him, tbh.

F me, huh?

I missed that earlier.

I don't know why you are so angry. I pay DaveXA's salary. What's wrong with an employer telling his employee to get back to work, now that the shutdowns are over?

 

[cuddlemonkey]

F me, huh?

I missed that earlier.

I don't know why you are so angry. I pay DaveXA's salary. What's wrong with an employer telling his employee to get back to work, now that the shutdowns are over?

I'm not angry. To paraphrase A Christmas Story: I work in profanity the way other artists might work in oils or clay.

The fact that you pay taxes does not make Dave your employee any more than you being a taxpayer allows you to determine troop deployments. We've been over this before but you still seem unable to understand the point.

Frankly, you would make a terrible boss. You've got Dave telling you that the entire department is working more efficiently and getting more done within the time allotted. Shouldn't you be celebrating the efficiency of the workforce paid for by your tax dollars?

 

[Snarky Sack]

I'm not angry. To paraphrase A Christmas Story: I work in profanity the way other artists might work in oils or clay.

All intelligent people do.

The fact that you pay taxes does not make Dave your employee any more than you being a taxpayer allows you to determine troop deployments. We've been over this before but you still seem unable to understand the point.

Sure it does.

Frankly, you would make a terrible boss. You've got Dave telling you that the entire department is working more efficiently and getting more done within the time allotted. Shouldn't you be celebrating the efficiency of the workforce paid for by your tax dollars?

No, I should be confirming or finding refutation for what Dave is telling me before I make my decision.

I pity the boss who, upon being told by subordinates that they work more efficiently from home, just takes their word for it. Maybe that lady in the video can provide the evidence for that.

Oh, wait. She can't. She doesn't even know how many employees are working from home, so she sure isn't gonna know if they are efficient or not.

 

[DaveXA]

All intelligent people do.

Sure it does.

No, I should be confirming or finding refutation for what Dave is telling me before I make my decision.

I already explained it to you. If you don't believe me, fine, but I'll go by what my agency bosses who actually know how to run an agency over your uninformed opinion.

I pity the boss who, upon being told by subordinates that they work more efficiently from home, just takes their word for it. Maybe that lady in the video can provide the evidence for that.

Oh, wait. She can't. She doesn't even know how many employees are working from home, so she sure isn't gonna know if they are efficient or not.

You keep referring back to that as if that's the arbiter of what's actually happening in the agency I work. You keep making assumptions that aren't true. Most agencies have a team assigned to evaluating work performance and workplace conditions, including what is the best policy for respective positions. For someone who is a public facing individual, they're more likely to be in the office frequently, for someone who is a manager for on site safety, they'll be working on-site. For agents who perform in-person interviews for security clearance applicants, they generally work from home with the exception of the interviews. They might go to a regional office once a month. For a financial manager, they have normally worked in the office in the past, but that's now being reevaluated because there's nothing we can do in the office that we can't do at home.

Thankfully, it's not up to you, it's at the discretion of the agency heads. That may change in the future, but for now, it's as I outlined.

 

[Snarky Sack]

I already explained it to you. If you don't believe me, fine, but I'll go by what my agency bosses who actually know how to run an agency over your uninformed opinion.

You keep referring back to that as if that's the arbiter of what's actually happening in the agency I work. You keep making assumptions that aren't true. Most agencies have a team assigned to evaluating work performance and workplace conditions, including what is the best policy for respective positions. For someone who is a public facing individual, they're more likely to be in the office frequently, for someone who is a manager for on site safety, they'll be working on-site. For agents who perform in-person interviews for security clearance applicants, they generally work from home with the exception of the interviews. They might go to a regional office once a month. For a financial manager, they have normally worked in the office in the past, but that's now being reevaluated because there's nothing we can do in the office that we can't do at home.

Thankfully, it's not up to you, it's at the discretion of the agency heads. That may change in the future, but for now, it's as I outlined.

I have seen no one appear before congress explain any of that. What the representatives of the people get is stonewalling and lies that are an insult to their and our intelligence. Maybe you should email your agency head and tell them that those other agency heads are really making federal workers look bad.

When every question is answered with "I don't know," or "I'll get back to you with a response to that," and other information hiding phrases, people take notice. If your mid-level bosses (we tax payers/voters are the highest level) cannot do a better job explaining themselves, I hope you are a maxed out donor to Democratic candidates as we learned that many federal employees are during the Phone Call Impeachment.

Because if Trump or DeSantis take office, there's gonna be some changes.

Someone said that you are disabled. None of my business, but I have no problem with a disabled federal employee working from home as an accommodation. Nor do I have any problem with lots of people working at home if the agency can document that the are saving money that way.

What I do have a problem with is none of the agency heads being willing or able to bring the receipts about that, and being expected to take the word of one anonymous poster over all of the federal employees I observed at work during twelve years in the military.

It makes me thing that the staying home is the goal, not the efficiency.

Don't get me started on employees at the VA.

 

[Incumbent]

I have seen no one appear before congress explain any of that. What the representatives of the people get is stonewalling and lies that are an insult to their and our intelligence. Maybe you should email your agency head and tell them that those other agency heads are really making federal workers look bad.

When every question is answered with "I don't know," or "I'll get back to you with a response to that," and other information hiding phrases, people take notice. If your mid-level bosses (we tax payers/voters are the highest level) cannot do a better job explaining themselves, I hope you are a maxed out donor to Democratic candidates as we learned that many federal employees are during the Phone Call Impeachment.

Because if Trump or DeSantis take office, there's gonna be some changes.

Someone said that you are disabled. None of my business, but I have no problem with a disabled federal employee working from home as an accommodation. Nor do I have any problem with lots of people working at home if the agency can document that the are saving money that way.

What I do have a problem with is none of the agency heads being willing or able to bring the receipts about that, and being expected to take the word of one anonymous poster over all of the federal employees I observed at work during twelve years in the military.

It makes me thing that the staying home is the goal, not the efficiency.

Don't get me started on employees at the VA.

Are you a private school teacher?

Many of us have known Dave for years and had the chance to grow to respect him and admire his character. There's a facade to this form of communication that all of us exist behind, so when you have the chance to interact with somebody who you can trust to be sincere and genuine, that means something.

You're just somebody with 1,100 posts in less than a month claiming to be a 61 year old teacher married to a quilt-loving wife, father to a polyamorous son, living in the Houston-area, former military, special needs teacher, "libertarian", Trump devotee. Enh.

One of y'all is definitely full of **** and the other one is a guy that many of us have known for years.

 

[Snarky Sack]

Are you a private school teacher?

No, I work at a public school because that is where the challenges are. I respect the taxpayers who are my employers, I don't know why Dave is not expected to do the same.

Many of us have known Dave for years and had the chance to grow to respect him and admire his character. There's a facade to this form of communication that all of us exist behind, so when you have the chance to interact with somebody who you can trust to be sincere and genuine, that means something.

You "know" him as well as an anonymous poster can be known. I'm glad that he is so well-liked and respected. My experience with him has been much different, and any negativity between us started with him, and not me.

Maybe that is part of why he is so well-liked, his willingness to quickly join in on personal attacks on an "outsider" with a differing opinion.

You're just somebody with 1,100 posts in less than a month claiming to be a 61 year old teacher married to quilt-loving wife, a polyamorous son, living in the Houston-area, former military, special needs teacher, "libertarian", Trump devotee. Enh.

One of y'all is definitely full of **** and the other one is a guy that many of us have known for years.

I don't care if you don't believe me or do about my RL. What I am "just" in your opinion makes no difference in whether my facts are true or my conclusions are logical.

The only reason I give any information about myself is because so many of your fellow posters on here have insisted on making it about me instead of about the issues. They have guessed at my personal details and stepped on the proverbial rake each time.

I find that amusing, so I talk about it.

 

[brandon]

No, I work at a public school because that is where the challenges are. I respect the taxpayers who are my employers, I don't know why Dave is not expected to do the same.

I also work for a public school district.

The “taxpayers” are not my employer. I work for the school district. The superintendent signs my checks. When I file my taxes every year, my W2s list the district as my employer.

It’s such an inane sound bite to say that public employees are employed by the taxpayer. The taxpayer no more pays my salary than I pay the salary of the manager at Jimmy John’s cause I eat a sandwich there every now and then.

And I expect to have the same input on the business decisions of Jimmy John’s as the average taxpayer should have on a public school district.

 

[Incumbent]

No, I work at a public school because that is where the challenges are. I respect the taxpayers who are my employers, I don't know why Dave is not expected to do the same.

You "know" him as well as an anonymous poster can be known. I'm glad that he is so well-liked and respected. My experience with him has been much different, and any negativity between us started with him, and not me.

Maybe that is part of why he is so well-liked, his willingness to quickly join in on personal attacks on an "outsider" with a differing opinion.

I don't care if you don't believe me or do about my RL. What I am "just" in your opinion makes no difference in whether my facts are true or my conclusions are logical.

The only reason I give any information about myself is because so many of your fellow posters on here have insisted on making it about me instead of about the issues. They have guessed at my personal details and stepped on the proverbial rake each time.

I find that amusing, so I talk about it.

Ah, come on, I appreciate that you get to be whoever you want online and you've seized upon that in a mildly entertaining fashion. My favorite part, so far, has been the mysterious, I have to leave in a few days... Ok, Dark Knight.

That's just it - to those of us who know Dave, he isn't an anonymous poster. But, sure, it's not at all important that I convince you of that.

Your facts are your facts and your conclusions are mostly unoriginal, regurgitated rightwing talking points. You've ignored people who have shared their experiences when that challenges your narrow beliefs, been condescending (I know, it's right there in the name of the character you are playing), and posted at a pace I don't believe this board has ever seen. I'd be lying if I didn't wonder why, because all I can come up with is you set out on some weird mission to be as disruptive as possible for some brief amount of time.

 

[Snarky Sack]

I also work for a public school district.

The “taxpayers” are not my employer. I work for the school district. The superintendent signs my checks. When I file my taxes every year, my W2s list the district as my employer.

It’s such an inane sound bite to say that public employees are employed by the taxpayer. The taxpayer no more pays my salary than I pay the salary of the manager at Jimmy John’s cause I eat a sandwich there every now and then.

And I expect to have the same input on the business decisions of Jimmy John’s as the average taxpayer should have on a public school district.

I'm sorry you don't respect the people who pay your salary. Many government employees have the same attitude, and that one reason I'm skeptical that they will be these highly effecient and dedicated workers if we only let them work pool side.

You do have input into business decisions as a consumer, especially if you convince other consumers to express the same concerns as you do, or if other consumers express the same concerns unprompted.

Just ask the marketing genius that selected Dylan Mulvaney to partner with Bud Lite.

 

[Snarky Sack]

Ah, come on, I appreciate that you get to be whoever you want online and you've seized upon that in a mildly entertaining fashion. My favorite part, so far, has been the mysterious, I have to leave in a few days... Ok, Dark Knight.

I think I would pick something cooler, but you are welcome to believe as you please.

That's just it - to those of us who know Dave, he isn't an anonymous poster. But, sure, it's not at all important that I convince you of that.

I don't know how you mean that. Do you mean that all of you literally know Dave in real life, or that you know his online persona so well that he no longer seems like an anonymous poster?

I hope you don't get to know other people online so well that you meet them in the mall parking lot.

Your facts are your facts and your conclusions are mostly unoriginal, regurgitated rightwing talking points. You've ignored people who have shared their experiences when that challenges your narrow beliefs,

Same reason you ignore my experiences when they challenge your narrow beliefs. They are unverifiable, so you are right not to accept them as reasons to change your mind.

been condescending (I know, it's right there in the name of the character you are playing), and posted at a pace I don't believe this board has ever seen. I'd be lying if I didn't wonder why, because all I can come up with is you set out on some weird mission to be as disruptive as possible for some brief amount of time.

Not at all. If the initial response that I got had not been immediately in the attack mode, I probably would have approached this board much differently. I'm leaving in three days because that was my plan all along for reasons I have explained.

It wasn't you in the early personal attacks, but it certainly was Dave. I had him on ignore for a while because his posts were just these little one-line insults while I was debating another poster. One of your more honest colleagues told me that I was being hazed, which is just another form of bullying. Like any bully, these ones ran into one who stood up to them and they hated it.

Still, I bear none of them any ill will. I hope they are happier without me on the board, especially Dave who seems never to work at this work at home job of his. (I'm on my one week I get during the summer) Reserving the right to return on occasion to talk about the accuracy of some of my predictions. Right, I'll remind without gloating, wrong, I'll own up.