What happens to the Republican Party now? (6 Viewers)

[MT15]

This election nonsense by Trump may end up splitting up the Republican Party. I just don’t see how the one third (?) who are principled conservatives can stay in the same party with Trump sycophants who are willing to sign onto the TX Supreme Court case.

We also saw the alt right types chanting “destroy the GOP” in Washington today because they didn’t keep Trump in power. I think the Q types will also hold the same ill will toward the traditional Republican Party. In fact its quite possible that all the voters who are really in a Trump personality cult will also blame the GOP for his loss. It’s only a matter of time IMO before Trump himself gets around to blaming the GOP.

There is some discussion of this on Twitter. What do you all think?

 

[SteveSBrickNJ]

I wasn't trying to say that there were Republican mayors who supported defund the police. I really doubt there were any.

I'm just saying that I've previously looked it up and I'm almost certain that crime has gone up in most areas regardless of whether or not those areas supported defund the police and regardless of whether or not the area is run by Democrats.

And with that being the case, even though 'defund the police' is as stupid as I thought it was when they first ran with it, there's not really the straight forward correlation that you're drawing between between an area's support for defund the police and the overall increase in violence we've seen... As again, the increase in violence is across the board and regardless of those factors.

I read your post here. You have given me something to consider. I have not read any other posts. I liked the way you presented yourself so I wanted to be respectful and answer you cordially. Have a good night.

 

[Taurus]

I just came back here and saw a #5 over my alerts bell.
I have a feeling I would not like any of them.
One person used a laughing emoji.
Listen, any person who thinks that defunding or less funding for police departments is a good idea...well that person has earned a laughing emoji.
I'm not talking about Democrats vs Republicans.
Less police...less safety.
More police...more safety.
I'm just talking about common sense.
Good night.

It's only common sense to a point.

Seattle

I read your post here. You have given me something to consider. I have not read any other posts. I liked the way you presented yourself so I wanted to be respectful and answer you cordially. Have a good night.

More cops = safer is only true up to a point.
Seattle lost about a hundred police officers when they reduced funding.
They then increased funding but they can't find qualified people for the vacant positions.
Qualified being the operative term. You can put a thug with a badge on every corner but it won't make you safer. Just the opposite. Especially if you're black.

I haven't heard of any city that did it right. Seattle forked up in failing to give that contractor the legal authority to write tickets and not reassigning the police thus freed from meter-reading duty to something more productive.

Sadly, the idea of rearranging police funding doesn't fit in a soundbyte.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

It's understandable, that after a police officer kneels on a suspect's neck long enough to kill him unwarrantedly, that cries about changing our police force, i.e. defunding, would occur. But better, IMO, would be the re-education of police officers, and that reeducation occurs multiple times during an officer's career.

Tragedies like the following should never happen:

Full body cam video of Huntsville PD officer killing suicidal man​

Former Huntsville police officer William Darby sentenced to 25 years for murder

Former Huntsville Police Officer William Darby was convicted in May for the murder of Jeffery Parker, a suicidal man shot by Darby in an on-duty incident in 2018. Three months after his conviction …

whnt.com

Another situation where a lack of maturity on the part of the police cost a civilian his life:

Should we continue to fund police forces that unnecessarily kill those of us who are paying their salaries because they are poorly trained and or have rules of engagement that are poorly conceived?

 

[Saintamaniac]

Report: Trump Thinks a 2024 Presidential Run Will Keep Him Out of Prison

The former president is reportedly banking on a White House bid to stave off criminal charges.

www.vanityfair.com

The title of this thread is "What happens to the republican party now." This is what happens to the republican party. They are the party that elects rapists, liars, hustlers and criminals to provide them protection from criminal prosecution.

 

[Optimus Prime]

A Republican candidate running for the US Senate in Maryland was arrested for allegedly filing a false human trafficking report.

Police said Ryan Dark White, who also goes by Dr Jon McGreevey, falsely claimed on Friday that a man in an adult bookstore was forcing a girl between the ages of 10 and 12 to participate in sex acts with male customers…..

Republican Senate candidate arrested for filing false child trafficking report

Ryan White allegedly claimed he was an employee at an adult bookstore when he made the report

www.independent.co.uk

 

[el caliente]

Report: Trump Thinks a 2024 Presidential Run Will Keep Him Out of Prison

The former president is reportedly banking on a White House bid to stave off criminal charges.

www.vanityfair.com

The title of this thread is "What happens to the republican party now." This is what happens to the republican party. They are the party that elects rapists, liars, hustlers and criminals to provide them protection from criminal prosecution.

I would like to introduce you to Louisiana politics.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Good point
===========
It has been 18 months since defeated former president Donald Trump instigated an insurrection against the United States.

Yet the average Republican still refuses to hold him accountable and declines to rule out supporting him in 2024.


Worse, the mainstream media let them get away with it. The exchange on Sunday between CNN’s Dana Bash and Arizona Gov. Doug Ducey (R) is illustrative:


BASH: Do you believe [Trump’s] actions on Jan. 6 or inaction should disqualify him from holding public office in the future?


DUCEY: Dana, I condemned Jan. 6. And I think everyone that broke the law should be held accountable. In our system, this is up to the voters on what happens next. So many people want to talk about 2024. And I want to resist that temptation to talk about hypotheticals. I think the best way for us to turn this page and to move forward as a conservative Republican Party and a country is to make sure we get the best possible people elected in 2022. And that’s my focus, as well as running the state of Arizona, every single day.


BASH: If Donald Trump runs in 2024, will you support him?


DUCEY: I think we will have options in the 2024 primary race. I am hopeful we will have options. And I want somebody who can win that general election, because I believe, with success in 2022, the general election is the Republican Party’s for the taking.


That’s simply not good enough. Not after the House Jan. 6 select committee has so clearly depicted the extent to which Trump was involved in the conspiracy (both nonviolent and violent) to overturn the election.

Republicans show every intention of continuing to enable the chief election denier, thereby perpetuating the threat to our democracy.

Let’s consider the questions that should have followed Ducey’s first non-answer refusing to say whether Trump’s conduct should disqualify him.

.
• You didn’t answer the question. Is Trump disqualified in your judgment?

• Have you read about or watched the Jan. 6 committee’s hearings? Why can’t you render a judgment?

• How can voters trust you to defend democracy if you cannot rule out supporting the instigator of a coup attempt?


• Is seeking to procure fake electors acceptable?


• Should pressuring the Justice Department to “just say” the election was fraudulent despite any evidence of fraud be permissible?

• If Arizona’s state legislature had submitted alternative, phony electors contradicting Arizona voters’ choice, what would you have done?


• Is it acceptable to urge an armed mob to march to the Capitol to stop the count of electoral votes?

• What about inciting a mob against the vice president at the Capitol? Is that acceptable?…..

Likewise, when Republicans refuse to rule out supporting Trump as the nominee, it behooves the interviewer to follow up:


• What makes you think Trump wouldn’t lie about a stolen election or try to overturn the results again in 2024?


• Doesn’t the GOP have a responsibility to offer a candidate who will accept election results?

• Is it consistent with your oath to support a candidate who tried to overthrow an election?

• Why are you afraid to rule out support for someone who fomented an insurrection?

• Why should voters entrust the Republican Party — which spread the “big lie,” produced in some cases phony electors and raised baseless objections to the results — with Senate and House seats when the 2020 scenario could repeat itself in 2024?……

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/07/18/how-media-should-question-republicans-trump-doug-ducey/

 

[DaveXA]

Good point
===========
It has been 18 months since defeated former president Donald Trump instigated an insurrection against the United States.

Yet the average Republican still refuses to hold him accountable and declines to rule out supporting him in 2024.


Worse, the mainstream media let them get away with it. The exchange on Sunday between CNN’s Dana Bash and Arizona Gov. Doug Ducey (R) is illustrative:


BASH: Do you believe [Trump’s] actions on Jan. 6 or inaction should disqualify him from holding public office in the future?


DUCEY: Dana, I condemned Jan. 6. And I think everyone that broke the law should be held accountable. In our system, this is up to the voters on what happens next. So many people want to talk about 2024. And I want to resist that temptation to talk about hypotheticals. I think the best way for us to turn this page and to move forward as a conservative Republican Party and a country is to make sure we get the best possible people elected in 2022. And that’s my focus, as well as running the state of Arizona, every single day.


BASH: If Donald Trump runs in 2024, will you support him?


DUCEY: I think we will have options in the 2024 primary race. I am hopeful we will have options. And I want somebody who can win that general election, because I believe, with success in 2022, the general election is the Republican Party’s for the taking.


That’s simply not good enough. Not after the House Jan. 6 select committee has so clearly depicted the extent to which Trump was involved in the conspiracy (both nonviolent and violent) to overturn the election.

Republicans show every intention of continuing to enable the chief election denier, thereby perpetuating the threat to our democracy.

Let’s consider the questions that should have followed Ducey’s first non-answer refusing to say whether Trump’s conduct should disqualify him.

.
• You didn’t answer the question. Is Trump disqualified in your judgment?

• Have you read about or watched the Jan. 6 committee’s hearings? Why can’t you render a judgment?

• How can voters trust you to defend democracy if you cannot rule out supporting the instigator of a coup attempt?


• Is seeking to procure fake electors acceptable?


• Should pressuring the Justice Department to “just say” the election was fraudulent despite any evidence of fraud be permissible?

• If Arizona’s state legislature had submitted alternative, phony electors contradicting Arizona voters’ choice, what would you have done?


• Is it acceptable to urge an armed mob to march to the Capitol to stop the count of electoral votes?

• What about inciting a mob against the vice president at the Capitol? Is that acceptable?…..

Likewise, when Republicans refuse to rule out supporting Trump as the nominee, it behooves the interviewer to follow up:


• What makes you think Trump wouldn’t lie about a stolen election or try to overturn the results again in 2024?


• Doesn’t the GOP have a responsibility to offer a candidate who will accept election results?

• Is it consistent with your oath to support a candidate who tried to overthrow an election?

• Why are you afraid to rule out support for someone who fomented an insurrection?

• Why should voters entrust the Republican Party — which spread the “big lie,” produced in some cases phony electors and raised baseless objections to the results — with Senate and House seats when the 2020 scenario could repeat itself in 2024?……

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/07/18/how-media-should-question-republicans-trump-doug-ducey/

Yep, this is crux of the problem with the Republican Party. When they can't hold their own feet to the fire and hold their leaders accountable, they're a corrupted party. For every Liz Cheney and Mitt Romney, there are more McConnells and McCarthys, not to mention the fringe ones like MTG and Boebert. Until the Republican leadership and RNC completely cuts out the cancer that is Trump and his cultists, there's no legitimate Republican Party to me. The party has become the cult and I have zero interest in engaging with them.

 

[el caliente]

Don’t get me wrong, I didn’t vote for Trump either time I had the chance, nor did I vote for Clinton or Biden.

With that said, I don’t agree with how the Republicans have handled 2020 election results, but the Democrats response to the 2016 election results (Russia, Russia, Russia) doesn’t give me much faith in them honoring election results either (though to a lesser extent than Trump Republicans).

Does anyone trust either party any longer, and if so, why?

 

[Saintamaniac]

Does anyone trust either party any longer? Why?

By default I trust the Democrats more than I trust the Republicans because the Democrats didn't attempt a coup. That's pretty simple for me and should be simple for anyone that still believes in the values of this country and the rule of law set forth in the constitution.

 

[MT15]

There’s a vast difference between the two parties, imo. The Rs have shown serious intent to subvert democracy and tear down our system of government to get their way. Democrats have worked within the system and are committed to upholding democracy. Not the same planet, even.

 

[zztop]

also, don't forget all the voter suppression laws passed at the state level

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

Don’t get me wrong, I didn’t vote for Trump either time I had the chance, nor did I vote for Clinton or Biden.

With that said, I don’t agree with how the Republicans have handled 2020 election results, but the Democrats response to the 2016 election results (Russia, Russia, Russia) doesn’t give me much faith in them honoring election results either (though to a lesser extent than Trump Republicans).

Does anyone trust either party any longer, and if so, why?

Yes, I trust the Democrats and will until and unless they prove they can't be trusted. The Republicans have, unfortunately, proved they can't be trusted already.

As for the Democrats and Russia, Russia, Russia, that was brought on by Trump himself and his rather strange attraction to Russia and Putin.

 

[bdb13]

Don’t get me wrong, I didn’t vote for Trump either time I had the chance, nor did I vote for Clinton or Biden.

With that said, I don’t agree with how the Republicans have handled 2020 election results, but the Democrats response to the 2016 election results (Russia, Russia, Russia) doesn’t give me much faith in them honoring election results either (though to a lesser extent than Trump Republicans).

Does anyone trust either party any longer, and if so, why?

I'd say I don't really trust in any politicians or political parties and while I mostly believe the Democrats suck too for a variety of reasons.. this Trump era GOP has sunk itself to depths that were previously unimaginable to me.

I was pretty naive I guess and figured in its immediate aftermath that January 6th would be the GOP's turning point away from Trump(ism).. but instead they've largely doubled down and have turned the "stolen election" and January 6th issues into party purity tests 180° from reality.

And it's because of that - in the era of Trump dominated politics where far too many Republicans have revealed themselves to be little more than anti-American, amoral cultists and theocrats banded together by their love of Trumpism and hate of the left - that my level of distrust and disdain towards Republicans is unrivaled.

 

[MT15]

Yes, I trust the Democrats and will until and unless they prove they can't be trusted. The Republicans have, unfortunately, proved they can't be trusted already.

As for the Democrats and Russia, Russia, Russia, that was brought on by Trump himself and his rather strange attraction to Russia and Putin.

His attraction is money and self-interest. Naked greed and narcissism, nothing more. That millions of people have deluded themselves to think Trump gives a tinker’s damn about them or this country is the sign of how cultish they’ve become.

 

[Optimus Prime]

 

[MT15]

Don’t get me wrong, I didn’t vote for Trump either time I had the chance, nor did I vote for Clinton or Biden.

With that said, I don’t agree with how the Republicans have handled 2020 election results, but the Democrats response to the 2016 election results (Russia, Russia, Russia) doesn’t give me much faith in them honoring election results either (though to a lesser extent than Trump Republicans).

Does anyone trust either party any longer, and if so, why?

Great newsletter (again) by Tom Nichols. No link, so am posting most of the newsletter because it’s important. I know it’s a lot to read, but very much worth it.

“For weeks I’ve been watching a parade of Republican officials describe how they worked inside a Republican administration under Donald Trump as the GOP fell to a bunch of kooks, opportunists, racists, and aspiring fascists. I do not know how many of them still think of themselves as Republicans, and I don’t care. I’m sure, however, that many of them—like the mendacious and oily William Barr—would still describe themselves as conservatives.

Such “I would still vote for the conservative” paternosters are required among the right wing in Washington. For the rest of us, who do not think of ourselves as “liberals” and who are not members of the Democratic Party, we have to try a little harder to think through our own political identity as voters and citizens. What does it even mean to be a conservative in the Trump era?

I’m not alone, of course, in wondering about this. I have a bookshelf in my home office where I have gathered the second thoughts of a lot of conservative authors who have broken with the GOP, including Charlie Sykes, Max Boot, Stuart Stevens, Jack Pitney, and Rick Wilson, among others. I’ve been thinking about it again while plowing through new books by people like Tim Miller and my Atlantic colleague Mark Leibovich.

Conservatives, or what used to be called “conservatives” before the GOP implosion, are the only people who can answer this question for ourselves. Our friends and coalition partners to our left are no help. If you ask them, I am a “conservative” by virtue of not being a liberal (or not being liberal enough). Many of them are invested in narratives about how “the right wing was always like this,” or how Ronald Reagan (alternate version: Richard Nixon) “destroyed America,” or “conservatism was always inherently evil,” and on and on. This is not only tedious and silly, it’s pointless: In almost every democracy, the “right” and the “left” are part of a legitimate dialogue about government. Differences between the right and the left are meaningful and important.

But what are they? And are they worth arguing over at this point in American history?

I don’t speak for all conservatives. (Or any of them, if you listen to my critics from the GOP or among the anti-anti-Trump gripers.) And I am not going to launch into a long discourse here on Burkean conservatism or John Mill or John Locke or any of that. I have written, in bits and pieces, about what I think—at least for me—constitutes a conservative temperament, including ideas about human nature, the role of government, civic virtue, and the balance between freedom and responsibility.

The fact remains, however, that many of us are now in a coalition with an array of groups to our left. Among our former comrades on the right, this makes us apostates, defectors, heretics.

…

What I am “conserving,” by being a conservative, is our political order and the future freedom to argue and advocate within that order. This is why, for the duration of this national emergency (one that began in 2017 and is not over yet), I approach policies and politicians with two questions that—again, for now—override my policy preferences:

1. Does this issue strengthen or weaken the Republicans as they continue to advocate for sedition and authoritarianism?
2. Does this political figure caucus with the Republicans? Will he or she vote to make Kevin McCarthy the speaker of the House and Mitch McConnell the majority leader of the Senate?

Everything else runs in third place.

The practical effect here is that I will root for GOP defeats on policy even where I might otherwise agree with them. The institutional Republican Party must be weakened enough so that it can’t carry out the larger project of undermining our elections and curtailing our rights as citizens.

Put another way, it does no good to support small Republican wins on policy if the cumulative effect is to strengthen the party so that it is larger and more cohesive when it makes another run at destroying the Constitution. Politics is an ugly business; strategy requires some painful decisions. I believe we are in an existential political crisis, and I intend to act accordingly. (I wish some of my liberal friends would do the same, as I have argued here.)

But if I am being honest, I have also changed my mind on some of the issues that once kept me on the GOP ranch. I am not as conservative as I once was.

…

I’ve also been thinking about something Charlie Sykes said in the wake of the Supreme Court’s Dobbs decision. Charlie asked how he, a pro-life stalwart, could now be so concerned about finally getting what pro-lifers have wanted for 50 years with the overturning of Roe v. Wade. The answer, as he wrote in June, is that he simply does not trust today’s Republicans to act in a humane or responsible manner. Neither do I.

In fact, I do not trust the GOP to enact conservative policies in any but the most repressive and cruel fashion. I do not trust that their goal is limited government; I believe their goal is limited democracy, and specifically, limited only to themselves and people who think as they do.

Are the Democrats any better? Of course they are. I have never been shy about noting the totalitarian streak on the American left, but the Democrats have not been captured by their fringe. More to the point, they are not institutionally capable of implementing the plans of their young-Stalinist wing. (Let's face it: On most days, the Democrats couldn’t organize a piss-up in a brewery.) And they are led by Joe Biden, a fundamentally decent man. I disagree with many leading Democrats, but I do not think they are delusional authoritarians, and for now, that’s a lot.

The conservatives, in any case, have become completely un-conservative. The traditional conservative emphasis on law and order and on limited government has not held the GOP’s theocratic-nutball wing in check. The same people who decried the growth of executive power now worship a sociopathic real-estate con man as a demigod. The party that prided itself on its national-security cred is now voting against admitting Sweden and Finland into NATO like some early–20th century isolationist know-nothings. Even Republicans who should know better cheer the Supreme Court siding with a high-school football coach pulling his players into prayer sessions. And as my Atlantic colleague Jerusalem Demsas recently pointed out, Republicans went from “giving abortion back to the states” to trying to figure out how to allow those same states to interfere with the rights of Americans to move freely in their own country.

Am I defector? From the GOP, yes. My ultimate loyalty, however, is to the Constitution. Especially in the wake of the January 6 insurrection, I now regard every elected and appointed seat held by a Republican as a possible vote for autocracy, and every Republican victory, no matter how small, as one more advantage for a party whose litmus test for membership is accepting Donald Trump’s lies and whose platform seems to be that the next free and fair American election will be the last free and fair American election.

I’ll never be at home in my current coalition. That’s the nature of politics. But if joining with Democrats to stop an authoritarian takeover of the United States means that I have to grit my teeth and endure silly arguments about student loans and preferred politically correct terms, so be it. One of the things conservatives believe in—or this one does, anyway—is that human nature, immutable and indomitable, can fix most of our problems, and that after doing enough dumb things we’ll come to good solutions.

But to find those solutions, we need to maintain a system of constitutional freedoms under the rule of law. If we lose that, the rest is meaningless.”

 

[coldseat]

Don’t get me wrong, I didn’t vote for Trump either time I had the chance, nor did I vote for Clinton or Biden.

With that said, I don’t agree with how the Republicans have handled 2020 election results, but the Democrats response to the 2016 election results (Russia, Russia, Russia) doesn’t give me much faith in them honoring election results either (though to a lesser extent than Trump Republicans).

Does anyone trust either party any longer, and if so, why?

You really don't see a difference between 2020 and 2016? Do you really believe both parties handled losing the election the same way? What where the actions that the Democrats took in the aftermath of the 2016 election that parallels with what Trump and Republicans did after the 2020 election?

I just don't see any correlation at all. You're reasonably well informed, so it just befuddles me how many people like yourself still "both sides" the two main political parities in 2022. I suppose I'm a partisan, though I don't even really self identify as a Democrat. But I clearly only vote for Democrats because Republicans are hell bent on destroying this country from the inside out. I'm not saying that Democrats are our saviors, don't misunderstand me. They don't have all the right answers, but at least they're trying to turn the car that is this country so that we don't go falling off a cliff, while Republicans are putting their foot on the accelerator to Thelma and Louise us off that cliff.

Can you even name one major initiative or policy that Republicans are running on that would make this country better? What would they do if they won control of the House, Senate or Presidency?