What happens to the Republican Party now? (1 Viewer)

[MT15]

This election nonsense by Trump may end up splitting up the Republican Party. I just don’t see how the one third (?) who are principled conservatives can stay in the same party with Trump sycophants who are willing to sign onto the TX Supreme Court case.

We also saw the alt right types chanting “destroy the GOP” in Washington today because they didn’t keep Trump in power. I think the Q types will also hold the same ill will toward the traditional Republican Party. In fact its quite possible that all the voters who are really in a Trump personality cult will also blame the GOP for his loss. It’s only a matter of time IMO before Trump himself gets around to blaming the GOP.

There is some discussion of this on Twitter. What do you all think?

 

[MT15]

Thank you for your good faith response. I was making the point that those qualified candidates have no chance.

That’s why the Republican Party is in real trouble, IMO. They’re punishing qualified reasonable candidates and preferring cartoon characters who aren’t even serious about governing. They’ve (R base) evidently decided that they don’t want to do anything to make the country work better, all they want to do is punish people they don’t like.

My brother lives in Florida, and as far as I know isn’t particularly involved politically. I would peg him as a moderate and used to voting independently of party affiliations (raised by same parents and all). He‘s 12 years older than me, so we didn’t have any political discussions growing up.

He refers to DeSantis as “our idiot governor”.

 

[SteveSBrickNJ]

That’s why the Republican Party is in real trouble, IMO. They’re punishing qualified reasonable candidates and preferring cartoon characters who aren’t even serious about governing. They’ve (R base) evidently decided that they don’t want to do anything to make the country work better, all they want to do is punish people they don’t like.

My brother lives in Florida, and as far as I know isn’t particularly involved politically. I would peg him as a moderate and used to voting independently of party affiliations (raised by same parents and all). He‘s 12 years older than me, so we didn’t have any political discussions growing up.

He refers to DeSantis as “our idiot governor”.

I'm sure you know your brother fairly well and everything you say about him is naturally true.
Yet in all 50 states of this country you can find some citizens who will bad mouth their governor. Even the most popular governor will not have 100% or even 85% support. There is always opposition.
DeSantis is up for re-election THIS November. Let's see how that goes.
Re. your opening paragraph above, I don't agree with any of it.
Have a good night though. I enjoy talking with you.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

I'm sure you know your brother fairly well and everything you say about him is naturally true.
Yet in all 50 states of this country you can find some citizens who will bad mouth their governor. Even the most popular governor will not have 100% or even 85% support. There is always opposition.
DeSantis is up for re-election THIS November. Let's see how that goes.
Re. your opening paragraph above, I don't agree with any of it.
Have a good night though. I enjoy talking with you.

Why do you disagree with the opening paragraph when it is demonstrably true?

 

[SteveSBrickNJ]

Why do you disagree with the opening paragraph when it is demonstrably true?

I get why Democrats feel that way. When Republican Presidents are in office I always feel that the Democrats #1 purpose is to oppose the White House's goals. Mostly focused on making the President seem unsuccessful rather than focusing on helping the citizens. Now you feel the same way.
Makes sense.
Not surprisingly, I feel that Republicans want to keep the parents in control of what is presented to their children.....especially the Elementary School children. Republicans are mostly Pro Life. Republicans are mostly for voting at the Polling Station on Election Day unless you are: Oversees...Have No way to Get to the polls....you'll be away on vacation....you are medically challenged...you are challenged in any way.....Republicans recognize all of those numerous circumstances....but if NONE of those numerous circumstances apply to an individual...it would be nice if they voted electronically. Republicans are SUPPOSED to be for not raising taxes and not adding to the deficit....they are supposed to be...we'll see.
There is more but I am taking time from my job to post this. I really shouldn't be....bye for now.

 

[Taurus]

Why do you disagree with the opening paragraph when it is demonstrably true?

I'd say the first sentence is demonstrably untrue. The GOP is not in trouble at all. They're poised to retake both Houses, they have an unassailable majority in the Supreme Court, which is allowing them to gerrymander and suppress voting all over America.
The most incompetent, cowardly scumbag ever to inhabit the White House still pulled 77 million votes and might conceivably win in 2024 if current trends continue.

The Republican party is sitting pretty from what I can see.

May the FSM have mercy on us.

 

[Optimus Prime]

While promoting his book Bill Barr is basically saying how awful Trump was towards the end but he’ll gladly vote for him if he’s the nominee in 24

Another version of the worst Republican is better than the best Democrat

 

[SteveSBrickNJ]

I'd say the first sentence is demonstrably untrue. The GOP is not in trouble at all. They're poised to retake both Houses, they have an unassailable majority in the Supreme Court, which is allowing them to gerrymander and suppress voting all over America.
The most incompetent, cowardly scumbag ever to inhabit the White House still pulled 77 million votes and might conceivably win in 2024 if current trends continue.

The Republican party is sitting pretty from what I can see.

May the FSM have mercy on us.

I agree that the Republicans will kick butt this Nov. 2022
The rest of the post represents only Taurus's viewpoint.

 

[MT15]

Well, to defend my opinion, I do think the R party is in trouble, at least from a moral and ethical standpoint. I don’t think they can sustain their current path of tacking hard right on all these social issues which are absolutely not majority views in the general population.

Given time, these crazy ideas will bite them in the butt unless they modify their behavior to move away from the extreme. I am with Steve on this: the majority of people in this country are not extreme, in either direction. Right now we have a smallish portion of the population holding an entire party hostage to radical ideas. The only thing that gives me pause is that right now Steve thinks DeSantis might inhabit the sane part of the R party when he clearly doesn’t.

The Trumpy R‘s views on what is being taught to schoolchildren are extreme and radical. They don’t represent reality. Quietly (because the news media isn’t really covering it) some R states are defeating these stupid “CRT” laws, I believe it recently happened in Indiana and NH. Locally, school board races are rejecting the extremists in some places. Teachers and educators are speaking out and parents know their kids’ teachers and know they’re not being taught that white people are evil or some such nonsense being pushed by the cultists.

And now, on top of their unpopular stances on rolling back gay rights, restricting women’s rights to their own medical care decisions, pushing authoritative restrictions on private companies to keep them from conducting their businesses the way they deem fit, and being anti-vax, there are quite a few high profile Trumpy Rs supporting Russia in its naked aggression against Ukraine. Trying to sell Russian propaganda just outright. That’s not going to sit well with moderates or independents either.

I have faith that the bloom is starting to come off the rancid rose that is the nationalist cult of Trump.

 

[SteveSBrickNJ]

Well, to defend my opinion, I do think the R party is in trouble, at least from a moral and ethical standpoint. I don’t think they can sustain their current path of tacking hard right on all these social issues which are absolutely not majority views in the general population.

Given time, these crazy ideas will bite them in the butt unless they modify their behavior to move away from the extreme. I am with Steve on this: the majority of people in this country are not extreme, in either direction. Right now we have a smallish portion of the population holding an entire party hostage to radical ideas. The only thing that gives me pause is that right now Steve thinks DeSantis might inhabit the sane part of the R party when he clearly doesn’t.

The Trumpy R‘s views on what is being taught to schoolchildren are extreme and radical. They don’t represent reality. Quietly (because the news media isn’t really covering it) some R states are defeating these stupid “CRT” laws, I believe it recently happened in Indiana and NH. Locally, school board races are rejecting the extremists in some places. Teachers and educators are speaking out and parents know their kids’ teachers and know they’re not being taught that white people are evil or some such nonsense being pushed by the cultists.

And now, on top of their unpopular stances on rolling back gay rights, restricting women’s rights to their own medical care decisions, pushing authoritative restrictions on private companies to keep them from conducting their businesses the way they deem fit, and being anti-vax, there are quite a few high profile Trumpy Rs supporting Russia in its naked aggression against Ukraine. Trying to sell Russian propaganda just outright. That’s not going to sit well with moderates or independents either.

I have faith that the bloom is starting to come off the rancid rose that is the nationalist cult of Trump.

I have a question on your next to last paragraph. Re. "Trumpy R's"....are there SENATORS or HOUSE OF REPRESENTIVES currently in office that support Russia? If that is true, I am not aware of it. I sure hope that is not true.
Kindly provide evidence IF that is true.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

I get why Democrats feel that way. When Republican Presidents are in office I always feel that the Democrats #1 purpose is to oppose the White House's goals. Mostly focused on making the President seem unsuccessful rather than focusing on helping the citizens. Now you feel the same way.
Makes sense.
Not surprisingly, I feel that Republicans want to keep the parents in control of what is presented to their children.....especially the Elementary School children. Republicans are mostly Pro Life. Republicans are mostly for voting at the Polling Station on Election Day unless you are: Oversees...Have No way to Get to the polls....you'll be away on vacation....you are medically challenged...you are challenged in any way.....Republicans recognize all of those numerous circumstances....but if NONE of those numerous circumstances apply to an individual...it would be nice if they voted electronically. Republicans are SUPPOSED to be for not raising taxes and not adding to the deficit....they are supposed to be...we'll see.
There is more but I am taking time from my job to post this. I really shouldn't be....bye for now.

False equivalency is a fallacy for a reason. Opposing the other party is one thing. Attempting to shut down the government to prevent business from being conducted at all (such as Marjorie Taylor Green) and giving oxygen to people with no clue how to govern, no clue how the government works, and/or no desire to govern while also pushing insane conspiracy theories and downplaying a legitimate attack on our democracy is orders of magnitude worse.

As for voting, why do you oppose expanded access to the ballot box when we have copious amounts of evidence that its secure and zero evidence that it's susceptible to massive fraud?

 

[MT15]

I have a question on your next to last paragraph. Re. "Trumpy R's"....are there SENATORS or HOUSE OF REPRESENTIVES currently in office that support Russia? If that is true, I am not aware of it. I sure hope that is not true.
Kindly provide evidence IF that is true.

Madison Cawthorn immediately comes to mind. He’s not the only one. Marjorie Taylor Green and Paul Gosar are two others. Quick google search returned this overview.

Ukraine war becomes a cudgel in Republican Party's internal conflict

Candidates vying to run in midterm elections are attacking each other for past comments praising Vladimir Putin.

www.reuters.com

 

[MT15]

And while there are more Rs who have recently changed their tune on Putin, since the invasion, the three I mentioned have all indicated support for Putin since the invasion. It’s easy to find the evidence and it is referenced in the Reuters article.

 

[MT15]

Back to DeSantis: he proposed his own redistricting maps for Florida that were more extremely gerrymandered than the official R maps. He eliminated two more seats held by black democrats than even the R legislature did. When they didn’t pass his maps, but used their own, he has said he will veto their decision.

Article here: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/po...lack-held-congressional-seats-party-rcna19771

“Dragging legislators back to Tallahassee, which would be the ultimate power play for DeSantis, is on brand for a governor who became a top 2024 Republican presidential contender — second only to former President Donald Trump — for his willingness to fight anyone who hints at crossing him.

“This is DeSantis’ M.O.: What he cares about, he cares about deeply. And if you get in his way, he’s going to roll through you,” said state Sen. Jeff Brandes, a Tampa Republican. “Members don’t know him and don’t know what he’s going to do. And that not knowing is part of the reason they fear him.”

Brandes said DeSantis is particularly tough for Florida Republicans to go up against because of his skyrocketing profile within the party.

“This whole session was a showcase for DeSantis — a trial balloon for a White House campaign — and nationally he’s a 600-pound gorilla with the possibility of becoming an 800-pound gorilla, especially if he gets his way with these maps,” Brandes said.”

It appears DeSantis’ map may be in violation of an amendment to the state Constitution:

“From drawing his own map to threatening that veto, DeSantis’ involvement in congressional redistricting hasn’t been seen before in Florida, said University of Florida political science professor Michael McDonald.

McDonald, an expert in redistricting, said he can’t think of a single governor in the country who vetoed congressional maps passed by a legislature controlled by his party in recent history.

McDonald, who’s involved in a lawsuit against the university for trying to block him and other professors from lending their expertise in court cases that would challenge DeSantis policies, said that the governor knows how to exercise power and that he wants more Republican congressional seats created in Florida — despite the Fair Districts requirements in the state Constitution.

The 2010 voter-approved constitutional amendments prohibit legislators from intentionally drawing seats that favor or disfavor incumbents or parties or that reduce the ability of minority voters to elect candidates of their choice.”

This is an authoritarian leader, point blank.

 

[SteveSBrickNJ]

False equivalency is a fallacy for a reason. Opposing the other party is one thing. Attempting to shut down the government to prevent business from being conducted at all (such as Marjorie Taylor Green) and giving oxygen to people with no clue how to govern, no clue how the government works, and/or no desire to govern while also pushing insane conspiracy theories and downplaying a legitimate attack on our democracy is orders of magnitude worse.

As for voting, why do you oppose expanded access to the ballot box when we have copious amounts of evidence that its secure and zero evidence that it's susceptible to massive fraud?

2 months ago I went into this at great lengths on a Private Message....back and forth with someone.
I don't want to go into it at length again.
I'll just say this.
I am gonna be 60 years old on March 19th.
I've always like Presidential Election Day.
The excitement of knowing that the majority of the nation was waking up on the first Tuesday in November and going to their polling place to vote.....they voted ON Election Day.
I LIKE that!!!!
I AM IN FAVOR of EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THE NATION who HAS A CHALLENGE in their life....ALL OF OUR CITIZENS WHO HAVE A CHALLENGE OF ANY KIND....THEY SHOULD BY ALL MEANS VOTE BY MAIL IF THEY NEED TO!
I wish every healthy person who has no challenges of any sort would do what has always been done....vote ON Election Day.
@cuddlemonkey That's my preference. I AM NOT saying the nation has to bow to my preference. I am just saying that I wish they would (LOL)
The End.
Done......@cuddlemonkey I am done on this topic. Thank you in advance for your understanding

 

[MT15]

What does that even mean, Steve? Because that is your preference, that’s the way it has to be?

Look, nobody is saying you cannot go to the polls on Election Day like you always have. But you can surely think about people who work shifts, or who have small children or babies and cannot so easily go to the polls? Especially when their polling places have been consolidated to the point that there are waits that go for hours? Because that is what has happened.

Plus, one of our members here from Florida has mentioned that he loves being able to get his ballot by mail, which gives him time to research the candidates’ views on policies, and the other voting questions before he fills his ballot out and mails it in. Florida has been allowing anyone to vote by mail for quite a while now, there are no problems with it. Utah is another state which does vote by mail. It’s cost effective for the taxpayer and there hasn’t been any significant fraud - no more than the usual idiots who try to game the system and are pretty well arrayed in both parties.

So, other than personal preference, what would be the problem with allowing vote by mail to anyone who wants to do it that way?

 

[cuddlemonkey]

2 months ago I went into this at great lengths on a Private Message....back and forth with someone.
I don't want to go into it at length again.
I'll just say this.
I am gonna be 60 years old on March 19th.
I've always like Presidential Election Day.
The excitement of knowing that the majority of the nation was waking up on the first Tuesday in November and going to their polling place to vote.....they voted ON Election Day.
I LIKE that!!!!
I AM IN FAVOR of EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THE NATION who HAS A CHALLENGE in their life....ALL OF OUR CITIZENS WHO HAVE A CHALLENGE OF ANY KIND....THEY SHOULD BY ALL MEANS VOTE BY MAIL IF THEY NEED TO!
I wish every healthy person who has no challenges of any sort would do what has always been done....vote ON Election Day.
@cuddlemonkey That's my preference. I AM NOT saying the nation has to bow to my preference. I am just saying that I wish they would (LOL)
The End.
Done......@cuddlemonkey I am done on this topic. Thank you in advance for your understanding

That was me, and I asked you a question that you never answered. I will ask it again.

What's more important, an exciting (by your standards) election night or ballot box access for as many registered voters as possible?

 

[SteveSBrickNJ]

That was me, and I asked you a question that you never answered. I will ask it again.

What's more important, an exciting (by your standards) election night or ballot box access for as many registered voters as possible?

In the middle of my recent post....in all capital letters I said:
"I AM IN FAVOR OF EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THE NATION WHO HAS A CHALLENGE in their life...ALL OF OUR CITIZENS WHO HAVE A CHALLENGE OF ANY KIND......THEY SHOULD BY ALL MEANS VOTE BY MAIL IF THEY NEED TO!" That's what I...Steve...said!
*
So, you really annoy me cuddlemonkey with the way you frame your question to me. Here's you: "Steve...choose my(cuddlemonkey's) door #1 or cuddlemonkey's door #2
I'll(cuddlemonkey) ignore the fact that you already said you want all people to be able to vote....no person who needs to vote by mail under the Steve plan will denied that opportunity. I'll just ignore that you said that Steve..... and..... I'll just frame my question in such a way as to try to make you look bad. "
You really annoy me cuddlemonkey. I not proposing to stop anyone from voting by mail.
EVERYONE who NEEDS "ballot box access" is please welcome to have it.
I'm not wishing to stop anyone. So exasperating!
I need another break from this forum thanks to cuddlemonkey.
Maybe I'll come back on Friday.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

In the middle of my recent post....in all capital letters I said:
"I AM IN FAVOR OF EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THE NATION WHO HAS A CHALLENGE in their life...ALL OF OUR CITIZENS WHO HAVE A CHALLENGE OF ANY KIND......THEY SHOULD BY ALL MEANS VOTE BY MAIL IF THEY NEED TO!" That's what I...Steve...said!
*
So, you really annoy me cuddlemonkey with the way you frame your question to me. Here's you: "Steve...choose my(cuddlemonkey's) door #1 or cuddlemonkey's door #2
I'll(cuddlemonkey) ignore the fact that you already said you want all people to be able to vote....no person who needs to vote by mail under the Steve plan will denied that opportunity. I'll just ignore that you said that Steve..... and..... I'll just frame my question in such a way as to try to make you look bad. "
You really annoy me cuddlemonkey. I not proposing to stop anyone from voting by mail.
EVERYONE who NEEDS "ballot box access" is please welcome to have it.
I'm not wishing to stop anyone. So exasperating!
I need another break from this forum thanks to cuddlemonkey.
Maybe I'll come back on Friday.

I am well aware of what you said both here and in our private discussion. I can even go back and pull more quotes for context if you would like, but it's just more of the same things you said here.

I understand your position on people who can't make it to their polling place for reasons you have deemed valid. You even tied it specifically to health: "I wish every healthy person who has no challenges of any sort would do what has always been done....vote ON Election Day."

MT15 made some valid, easy-to-follow points that you ignored in order to whine like a child instead. In our conversation, I said that expanded access to the ballot box for all should be the norm, provided it is fair and secure. Your response: "But that takes all the fun and interest out of "Election Night". This new approach makes Election Night not what it used to be. When I go to the polls and vote on election day, millions of people have sent in their wimpy ballot weeks ago. I stinks. I don't like it."

You have decided that what you like is how all presidential elections should be run. When I asked you (twice) whether your notion of an exciting election night was more important than expanding access to the ballot box, you first ignored me, then lost your shirt.

Maybe you'll come back on Friday. Personally, I hope you stay gone if you're going to act like this.