Voting Law Proposals and Voting Rights Efforts (5 Viewers)

[MT15]

This is, IMO, going to be a big topic in the coming year. Republicans have stated their aim to make voting more restrictive in just about every state where they have the means to do so. Democrats would like to pass the Voting Rights Bill named after John Lewis. I’m going to go look up the map of all the states which have pending legislation to restrict voting. Now that we have the election in the rear view, I thought we could try to make this a general discussion thread, where people who have concerns about voting abuses can post as well and we can discuss it from both sides. Please keep memes out of this thread and put them in the boards where we go to talk about the other side, lol.

 

[Peace]

Who gives a sheet what you believe. I want to see actual cases, otherwise you don't have a leg to stand on. We don't change laws and rules because we think something is happening, but rather based on what actually is happening.

And I don't give a shirt that you don't give a shirt.

If there's even the possibility that something like mail fraud could happen then you take measures to cut it off. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. That is just wise thinking.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Not really. The situation has gotten so polarizing (which is a good thing) that it's difficult to really know who he can trust.

Polarizing is good and anyone that states facts that prove your position false can't be trusted. Got it.

I'm not the one obsessing over Donald Trump.

I didn't discuss Trump at all, so... cool?

Nope. It's better to keep mail in ballots to a minimum. We let the cheats slip past us last time, so the best we can do now is make sure this kind of thing doesn't happen again.

Multiple people already pointed out to you how ludicrous it is to believe that mail-in ballots were subject to massive fraud. I was discussing voting machines. Would it help if independent groups examined every single piece of hardware and every bit of software, code, logs, etc. to make sure nothing nefarious happened when it comes to voting machines?

That fact that I've found that nothing you say is believable? We're in 100% agreement there.

Another cool story.

Yes, I do realize that. What you don't seem to realize is that the majority of voters in this last election used mail in ballots, and the democrats have never been more desperate to defeat an opponent than they have with Donald Trump. THAT is where the problem lies.

You acknowledge that mail-in ballots are safe and secure but you object on the grounds that Trump lost?

 

[DaveXA]

And I don't give a shirt that you don't give a shirt.

If there's even the possibility that something like mail fraud could happen then you take measures to cut it off. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. That is just wise thinking.

Until you give examples of actual mail fraud, there's nothing to talk about.

 

[Peace]

I didn't discuss Trump at all, so... cool?

Sounds good to me.

 

[Peace]

Until you give examples of actual mail fraud, there's nothing to talk about.

Agreed.

 

[Optimus Prime]

I'll name several where we believe mail fraud could have taken place, and that is key areas in battleground states.

Where I stand is that I believe the election was stolen, but I recognize there isn't any proof to substantiate that belief, so I've decided to stop initiating arguments and look forward to 2024.

and this is why you believe that

 

[DaveXA]

Agreed.

Lol, that was easy.

 

[Peace]

Lol, that was easy.

Was it? Do you think you can keep your mouth shut about DT?

 

[efil4]

Was it? Do you think you can keep your mouth shut about DT?

like you said, its all about "an ounce of prevention"

 

[Peace]

like you said, its all about "an ounce of prevention"

True story.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Sounds good to me.

Can't address the substance of the post, I see. Consider me shocked...

 

[Optimus Prime]

I mean in general.

When I'm talking about election fraud/election denying it's usually in response to someone else's comments. I never initiate conversations on this subject.

Where I stand is that I believe the election was stolen, but I recognize there isn't any proof to substantiate that belief, so I've decided to stop initiating arguments and look forward to 2024.

The bottom line is, you stop talking about this stuff and I will stop too.

and one more thing on this

You admit you have no proof of election fraud

But you don't consider all the court cases alleging it happened that were dismissed, the investigations looking into it that found nothing, the recounts (Hi CyberNinjas) that confirmed the results as proof that election fraud isn't happening?

 

[DaveXA]

Was it? Do you think you can keep your mouth shut about DT?

I'm not the one with a persecution complex.

 

[DaveXA]

and one more thing on this

You admit you have no proof of election fraud

But you don't consider all the court cases alleging it happened that were dismissed, the investigations looking into it that found nothing, the recounts (Hi CyberNinjas) that confirmed the results as proof that election fraud isn't happening?

Yeah, it's absurd. The "evidence" of fraud was simply fabricated and the allegations were nonsense. An ounce of prevention for something that doesn't exist is absurd on it's face.

 

[FullMonte]

And I don't give a shirt that you don't give a shirt.

If there's even the possibility that something like mail fraud could happen then you take measures to cut it off. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. That is just wise thinking.

Fair enough.

There is the possibility that YOU can fraudulently vote. So, you agree we should pass a law that prevents YOU from voting?

 

[Optimus Prime]

Very interesting article
=================
For months, a small Michigan company that sells software to help municipalities manage work schedules and payroll accounts of election workers has been under scrutiny by two prominent members of a conservative “election integrity” group based in Texas that has helped spread false fraud claims about the 2020 election.


Catherine Engelbrecht, founder of True the Vote, and her partner Gregg Phillips alleged that the company, Konnech Inc., had allowed the Chinese government to have access to a server in China that held the personal information of nearly 2 million U.S. election workers — an allegation the company has vigorously disputed.


Then, just days after the New York Times published an account of the company being a “conspiracy theory target,” the Los Angeles district attorney announced that its chief executive, Eugene Yu, had been arrested on charges that appeared to mirror the claims of the election deniers.

True the Vote even issued a news release taking credit for inspiring the DA’s investigation — and Phillips said in a legal filing he had testified before a grand jury to assist the DA.

It seemed a rare case of an alleged election-conspiracy theory potentially having a factual basis.

Yet, in a parallel track in another courtroom, a federal judge in Texas has blasted Phillips, Engelbrecht and True the Vote for their allegations about Konnech.

The judge, Kenneth M. Hoyt, nominated to the bench by Ronald Reagan, even warned the group’s lawyer that “I’m thinking you may be played” by his clients.

Hoyt indicated in an order last week that he would hold the election deniers in contempt for not complying with a temporary restraining order he had issued in September.

The outcome of this complex case may not be clear for some time. But it indicates how election deniers have begun to gain a foothold within the legal system to advance their claims.


The election deniers


Phillips first gained attention when he claimed without providing evidence just days after the 2016 election that he had “verified” that more than 3 million votes had been cast by noncitizens — just enough to wipe out Hillary Clinton’s margin in the popular vote tally. President-elect Donald Trump avidly repeated the claim……..

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/10/26/strange-twists-turns-an-alleged-election-conspiracy/

 

[brandon]

If there's even the possibility that something like mail fraud could happen then you take measures to cut it off. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. That is just wise thinking.

Sure. The problem is, they're using a baseless allegation of mail fraud, of which you admit there's no evidence, as an excuse to enact laws to suppress legal votes from democrats. There's no mail fraud, and importantly, republican leaders don't actually believe there's mail fraud. They know that democrats vote more by mail than republicans, and so suppressing mail-in voting suppresses the democratic vote.

It's really that simple.

 

[Optimus Prime]

A lawsuit filed in US District Court accuses a far-right activist group of intimidating Arizona voters with the “express purpose” of blocking them from casting their ballots in stark violation of federal civil rights protections.

On 24 October, Arizona Alliance for Retired Americans, which represents roughly 50,000 retirees in the state, and voting rights organisation Voto Latino filed a 64-page complaint with a motion seeking a restraining order against Clean Elections USA and its founder Melody Jennings.

“Things are getting worse,” according to the complaint.

Two armed men in tactical gear in Maricopa County were recently filmed watching over drop boxes where voters can deposit their mail-in or absentee ballots.

The following day, armed monitors in “full disguises, tactical gear, and magazine clips” were staking out another drop box in the city of Mesa.

Plaintiffs accuse Clean Election USA of violating the Voting Rights Act of 1965 and the Ku Klux Klan Act of 1871, which prohibits “conspir[ing] to prevent, by force, intimidation, or threat, any citizen who is lawfully entitled to vote, from giving his support or advocacy in a legal manner.”……..

Arizona voting rights groups target far-right intimidation in federal lawsuit

‘Organised vigilante groups’ fuelled by conspiracy theories are turning away voters, according to complaint

www.independent.co.uk