US strikes deal w/ Taliban to remove troops from Afghanistan (2 Viewers)

[Heathen]

Surprised I didn't see it posted anywhere. And to preface -- I know there are too many contextual complexities to name regarding this.

Props to this administration for pushing to get this done. Endless war shouldn't be what American citizens view as 'normal'.

This would be a huge win for Americans and Afghanis if this works out as planned:

Afghan conflict: US and Taliban sign deal to end 18-year war

President Trump says it is "time after all these years to bring our people back home".

www.bbc.com

The US and Nato allies have agreed to withdraw all troops within 14 months if the militants uphold the deal.

President Trump said it had been a "long and hard journey" in Afghanistan. "It's time after all these years to bring our people back home," he said.

Talks between the Afghan government and the Taliban are due to follow.

Under the agreement, the militants also agreed not to allow al-Qaeda or any other extremist group to operate in the areas they control.

 

[Lapaz]

Why didn't we attack Pakistan for hiding bin Laden after 9/11? Why aren't we also tearing down their government and rebuilding it?

Because they are a nuclear power, but I our special forces attack terrorists in Pakistan. Pakistan is a problem, as are other countries, but we were already in Afghanistan offering stability for minimal cost, so we should've stayed.

 

[coldseat]

We will end up pumping more money into Afghanistan than we were spending. You have no idea whether it was possible to get Afghanistan to a good place. There is some history from when we were a more patient country, and I've noted it. That history is Korea. It only stabilized around 1987. Afghanistan may have taken a little more time, but abandoning them was not the right answer. Republicans don't really have the high ground, since they wanted to get out as well, but they didn't actually do it. Since Democrats did it, they will be tarred with that, whether that is right or wrong. On top of the that, the departure was executed terribly.

What the majority of Americans want doesn't make it right. I'm in the minority, but I believe this was a terrible mistake.

I doubt that.

Once we're past this moment and no longer involved in Afgansitan, all of this angst passes sans a terrorist attack out of Afghanistan. Which I don't consider very likely at the moment or in the next few years. Doesn't look good right now, but this is still the right decision.

 

[CoolBrees]

We never had a chance.

Afghanistan fought off the forking Soviet Union for 25 years before we decided to invade. Think about that. The red army didn’t exactly worry about the moral impression back home. They weren’t trying to hold on to a majority in congress. They just forked you up. And for 25 years they were the Taliban’s birch. On horseback no less.

They live in barren mountain land a million miles from anything and the only thing that grows there happens to have a street value of about $50k a kilo. Which makes supplying your militia a lot easier.

Our mission to eradicate their poppy operation stands as the biggest failure of the entire campaign, imo. As long as they were able to finance through the black market that effectively you can’t touch them through normal methods of freezing assets. You have to cut off their cash flow. And their poppy/heroin trade is bigger now than ever.

I think the problem might be that some who wish for us to stay is that they are under the belief that the Afghani people want democracy.

I mean, if they held open elections, the Taliban would win the majority and the Presidency.

So, how many years do you think you have to fight against that mentality?

 

[zztop]

We will end up pumping more money into Afghanistan than we were spending. You have no idea whether it was possible to get Afghanistan to a good place.

I'm actually curious to see if China can succeed there. My understanding is they have already signed some agreements, for massive investment in infrastructure projects in exchange for (presumably) access to the vast untapped natural resources that Afghanistan has

 

[CoolBrees]

Yep.

The Chinese don’t give a shirt about human rights or murderous regimes. They will nation build with the Taliban and just finance the exploitation of the country.

 

[Lapaz]

We never had a chance.

Afghanistan fought off the forking Soviet Union for 25 years before we decided to invade. Think about that. The red army didn’t exactly worry about the moral impression back home. They weren’t trying to hold on to a majority in congress. They just forked you up. And for 25 years they were the Taliban’s birch. On horseback no less.

They live in barren mountain land a million miles from anything and the only thing that grows there happens to have a street value of about $50k a kilo. Which makes supplying your militia a lot easier.

Our mission to eradicate their poppy operation stands as the biggest failure of the entire campaign, imo. As long as they were able to finance through the black market that effectively you can’t touch them through normal methods of freezing assets. You have to cut off their cash flow. And their poppy/heroin trade is bigger now than ever.

I think the problem might be that some who wish for us to stay is that they are under the belief that the Afghani people want democracy.

I mean, if they held open elections, the Taliban would win the majority and the Presidency.

So, how many years do you think you have to fight against that mentality?

The government reportedly had about a 50% favorability rating per a guest on a Sirius program (POTUS) that I was listening to today, and he said that is higher than the Taliban's.

I think a large portion of Afghans wanted us there, while they never wanted the Soviet Union there, so I think we did have a chance, but we needed a lot more patience. I agree that we shouldn't have messed with their national poppy crop. That shouldn't have been our priority. That was another unforced error.

 

[Lapaz]

I doubt that.

Once we're past this moment and no longer involved in Afgansitan, all of this angst passes sans a terrorist attack out of Afghanistan. Which I don't consider very likely at the moment or in the next few years. Doesn't look good right now, but this is still the right decision.

They may not attack the U.S., but I think they will attack the West, and then we will be expected to lead the retaliation. That will end up costing us more.

 

[Lapaz]

Yep.

The Chinese don’t give a shirt about human rights or murderous regimes. They will nation build with the Taliban and just finance the exploitation of the country.

This is probably a positive from a safety perspective, because the more Afghans and the Taliban have to lose, the less likely they will be to engage in terrorism. It is still bad from a moral perspective.

 

[SaulGoodmanEsq]

911 was planned by Al Queda in Afghanistan.

You could plan twelve guys with boxcutters hijacking airplanes from anywhere. As I told one of my friends at the time, you don't fight twelve guys with boxcutters by deploying the army. A fraction of that two trillion dollars spent could have been redirected into national security (CIA, NSA, etc.) for better results. Then you have the other trove of money to spend on stuff that would actually matter in this country like funding free tuition or healthcare.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

We will end up pumping more money into Afghanistan than we were spending. You have no idea whether it was possible to get Afghanistan to a good place. There is some history from when we were a more patient country, and I've noted it. That history is Korea. It only stabilized around 1987. Afghanistan may have taken a little more time, but abandoning them was not the right answer. Republicans don't really have the high ground, since they wanted to get out as well, but they didn't actually do it. Since Democrats did it, they will be tarred with that, whether that is right or wrong. On top of the that, the departure was executed terribly.

What the majority of Americans want doesn't make it right. I'm in the minority, but I believe this was a terrible mistake.

Why stop at Afghanistan? Isn't it mortally correct to spend our blood and treasure to fix multiple other nation's problem as well? We have our own problems that needs serious addressing and we can't afford to continue to spend our blood and treasure abroad, especially in a place whose people are so willing to fall back into the arms of a tyrannical theocracy.

It's been long past time to to get out of Afghanistan because it has been clear since the Karzai days that the Afghan government was unwilling to stand on its own. Their unwillingness to move towards 1st country status was evident by their everyday actions, even down to their attire, they embraced more of their outlaw culture than "western" culture. There were multiple "blue on blue" attacks against U.S. troops committed by Afghan soldiers, the very same ones that were expected to fight for their fellow countrymen. Afghanistan is a failed state not because we left, its a failed state because their government failed to stand up.

 

[SystemShock]

You have no idea whether it was possible to get Afghanistan to a good place.

I do. It was not possible, Afghans are Muslim, and they are aware of the duplicity of the U.S., not only in Afghanistan, but as it relates to Iraq, Syria, Libya, the Kurds, etc. They are also very aware of the U.S. relation with Israel.

There is some history from when we were a more patient country, and I've noted it. That history is Korea. It only stabilized around 1987.

South Korea is a completely different beast. I don't know what you mean by "it only stabilized around 1987". Even during the military regimes, the regimes were friendly with the U.S. and SK saw its economy flourish.

Afghanistan may have taken a little more time, but abandoning them was not the right answer. Republicans don't really have the high ground, since they wanted to get out as well, but they didn't actually do it. Since Democrats did it, they will be tarred with that, whether that is right or wrong. On top of the that, the departure was executed terribly.

What the majority of Americans want doesn't make it right. I'm in the minority, but I believe this was a terrible mistake.

Yeah, let's just occupy any country that looks wrong at the U.S. and impose our will on them by force. YAY, freedom! You sound afraid, but Afghanistan was never going to win or lose the war on terror.

 

[zztop]

just putting this here. I feel for people like this

A 27-year-old female mayor in Afghanistan says the Taliban 'will come for people like me and kill me'

"I'm sitting here waiting for them to come. There is no one to help me or my family," Maidan Sharh Mayor Zarifa Ghafari told the UK's iNews.

www.businessinsider.com

Zarifa Ghafari, 27, leads the city of Maidan Sharh. She's Afghanistan's youngest mayor, became the first female mayor of the Maidan Wardak province in 2018, and has championed women's rights in Afghanistan for years, hosting her own radio show and founding an NGO focused on empowering women economically.

"I'm sitting here waiting for them to come," Ghafari told the UK's iNews of the Taliban. "There is no one to help me or my family. I'm just sitting with them and my husband. And they will come for people like me and kill me. I can't leave my family. And anyway, where would I go?"

 

[superchuck500]

Ron Paul's take: the war "was lost when the US shifted focus from a limited mission to apprehend those responsible to 9/11 to an exercise in regime change and nation building."

Ron Paul: Kabul Has Fallen - But Don't Blame Joe Biden - FITSNews

"Until more Americans demand a pro-America, non-interventionist foreign policy they will continue to get fleeced by war profiteers ..."

www.fitsnews.com

 

[samiam5211]

Ron Paul's take: the war "was lost when the US shifted focus from a limited mission to apprehend those responsible to 9/11 to an exercise in regime change and nation building."

Ron Paul: Kabul Has Fallen - But Don't Blame Joe Biden - FITSNews

"Until more Americans demand a pro-America, non-interventionist foreign policy they will continue to get fleeced by war profiteers ..."

www.fitsnews.com

Regime change was on the table Day 1 wasn't it?

I seem to remember us running off the Taliban who were the devil. If you run off the regime, regime change is what you caused.

I wouldn't trust Rand Paul to renew my glasses prescription.

 

[bdb13]

Regime change was on the table Day 1 wasn't it?

I seem to remember us running off the Taliban who were the devil. If you run off the regime, regime change is what you caused.

I wouldn't trust Rand Paul to renew my glasses prescription.

.. quote was from papa Ron.

 

[J-DONK]

Regime change was on the table Day 1 wasn't it?

I seem to remember us running off the Taliban who were the devil. If you run off the regime, regime change is what you caused.

I wouldn't trust Rand Paul to renew my glasses prescription.

No it wasn't actually. I alluded to this in an earlier post. We missed OBL because we didn't go in with a massive military force to start with. It was after we screwed up at Tora Bora that things changed.

 

[MT15]

Never thought I would agree with Joe Walsh about this, but this is a good take, IMO.

 

[efil4]

The government reportedly had about a 50% favorability rating per a guest on a Sirius program (POTUS) that I was listening to today, and he said that is higher than the Taliban's.

I think a large portion of Afghans wanted us there, while they never wanted the Soviet Union there, so I think we did have a chance, but we needed a lot more patience. I agree that we shouldn't have messed with their national poppy crop. That shouldn't have been our priority. That was another unforced error.

It doesnt matter what the lowly civilian population "wanted" - its what could they GET. And without WIPING OUT the Taliban AND the IDEOLOGY behind them, factions would simply spring up each and every season. You would need to engage in FULL generational change ALONG with religious change. Thats genocide.

That was never going to happen. That "world" they live in- you, me and about 5.5 other billion will never understand it because we dont live it.

They have for eons.