US strikes deal w/ Taliban to remove troops from Afghanistan (1 Viewer)

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Heathen

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Surprised I didn't see it posted anywhere. And to preface -- I know there are too many contextual complexities to name regarding this.

Props to this administration for pushing to get this done. Endless war shouldn't be what American citizens view as 'normal'.

This would be a huge win for Americans and Afghanis if this works out as planned:

The US and Nato allies have agreed to withdraw all troops within 14 months if the militants uphold the deal.

President Trump said it had been a "long and hard journey" in Afghanistan. "It's time after all these years to bring our people back home," he said.

Talks between the Afghan government and the Taliban are due to follow.

Under the agreement, the militants also agreed not to allow al-Qaeda or any other extremist group to operate in the areas they control.
 

coldseat

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Essentially put ourselves into the position where we decided we had to trust the Taliban even as everyone publicly dismisses the idea of being trustful of the Taliban.

There ain't going to be anything that can justify how bad this is all going to look. How many Afghanis who helped us have we now helped to their own executions?

We've removed 100,000 people from that country in a week. Where the people on the list evacuated? Or are they still in Afghanistan?

That news article doesn't say one way or the other. We have to know that first before we can know if it's the wrong decision, I'd think. If it made it possible to get those people out of Afghanistan, as bad as it looks, it's hard to condemn. Regardless, we need a lot more clarity on what happened for sure. This looks all kinds of horible
 

bdb13

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We've removed 100,000 people from that country in a week. Where the people on the list evacuated? Or are they still in Afghanistan?

That news article doesn't say one way or the other. We have to know that first before we can know if it's the wrong decision, I'd think. If it made it possible to get those people out of Afghanistan, as bad as it looks, it's hard to condemn. Regardless, we need a lot more clarity on what happened for sure. This looks all kinds of horible
Taliban said on Tuesday they weren't allowing any more Afghan Nationals out of the country.. my guess is that the ones that weren't able to get through earlier on were probably already in danger with the Taliban establishing control and the US being forced to cooperate with them, but can't imagine that level of danger wasn't increased for some by being on a list provided by the Americans.
 

Saintman2884

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We've removed 100,000 people from that country in a week. Where the people on the list evacuated? Or are they still in Afghanistan?

That news article doesn't say one way or the other. We have to know that first before we can know if it's the wrong decision, I'd think. If it made it possible to get those people out of Afghanistan, as bad as it looks, it's hard to condemn. Regardless, we need a lot more clarity on what happened for sure. This looks all kinds of horible
Its a no-win situation, at the very least. Get as many positive things done like evacuating as many remaining Afghan refugees, translators, interpreters, their wives, girlfriends and extended families and remaining Americans left, documented/undocumented and hope, logistically, that the Taliban won't fork you at any given moment.

Which they have on multiple occasions and probably will continue to do so before we complete our withdrawal timeline.
 

bdb13

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Its a no-win situation, at the very least. Get as many positive things done like evacuating as many remaining Afghan refugees, translators, interpreters, their wives, girlfriends and extended families and remaining Americans left, documented/undocumented and hope, logistically, that the Taliban won't fork you at any given moment.

Which they have on multiple occasions and probably will continue to do so before we complete our withdrawal timeline.
I saw someone speaking on CBSN earlier saying that another dark side of this is that you have Americans With Afghani spouses who are having to make the decision on whether or not to leave because of Taliban is not letting the Afghan nationals out.

So, can all Americans who want to get leave actually get out? Maybe, if you declare "not wanting to leave" includes those who refuse to abandon their families.
 

MT15

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I know the Taliban said they weren’t letting any more Afghan citizens out, but we know that the tens of thousands who left during the last 24 hours weren’t all Americans, so I would take that statement from the Taliban as pure BS.
 

Saintman2884

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I saw someone speaking on CBSN earlier saying that another dark side of this is that you have Americans With Afghani spouses who are having to make the decision on whether or not to leave because of Taliban is not letting the Afghan nationals out.

So, can all Americans who want to get leave actually get out? Maybe, if you declare "not wanting to leave" includes those who refuse to abandon their families.
Wouldn't all these Americans with Afghani spouses or girlfriends and their families fall under some sort of diplomatic immunity privilege, which means if their husband is a military contractor and they've been married for almost 9 years, then yeah, she and any children they might have, have the right to leave the country if their father, husband is a US citizen and carries a long-term work visa or approved passport.

Qualified diplomatic immunity is a universal international right or privilege and should be highly respected.
 

bdb13

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I know the Taliban said they weren’t letting any more Afghan citizens out, but we know that the tens of thousands who left during the last 24 hours weren’t all Americans, so I would take that statement from the Taliban as pure BS.
Or it's more complicated and dependant upon the actual physical location and timing of those Afghani nationals that were evacuated.. meaning that Afghan nationals who weren't able to put themselves in a more fortuitous position earlier on here are now faced with additional resistance from Taliban members on the roads to the perimeter of the airport.
 

bdb13

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Wouldn't all these Americans with Afghani spouses or girlfriends and their families fall under some sort of diplomatic immunity privilege, which means if their husband is a military contractor and they've been married for almost 9 years, then yeah, she and any children they might have, have the right to leave the country if their father, husband is a US citizen and carries a long-term work visa or approved passport.

Qualified diplomatic immunity is a universal international right or privilege and should be highly respected.
I'm saying that he was saying that Americans with paperwork were being let through by the Taliban but their Afghani spouses with different paperwork were not being allowed through checkpoints by members of the Taliban.
 

MT15

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Here’s updated numbers for the evacuation. This was a noble and dangerous mission, and ultimately fatal for some of our soldiers.

 
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Heathen

Heathen

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Our country's longest war. For what? Vengeance?

I'm not saying we shouldn't have retaliated against those who attacked us on Sept. 11th. But the chaos WE have caused by occupying Afghanistan has led to infinitely more unnecessary death and heartache to both Afghan citizens and to US Soldiers.

I can't help but think the obvious answer here is an excuse to keep an industry going...but we don't prosecute heads of industry here.
 

Mr. Blue Sky

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I am sure this will come as shocking information to every single one of you, but i am seeing and hearing lots of folks in the media, as well as on social platforms , blaming JOSEPH R BIDEN for todays events… like, not even one peep about the crazy -*** suicide bombers who perpetrated this… and of course i saw no thread on SaintsReport about today’s events (unless i missed it), becuase we cant come together to mourn the dead without it turning into a political cluster****… so can only discuss it here on the MAP board…. I even saw that two Republicans - didnt catch the names , but I’m sure they are HIGHLY distinguished and reputable- who called for Biden to resign…. I’m trying to remember which Democrats called for George W to resign in the aftermath of 9/11, which was much worse in terms of death toll, and happened on US soil - but i cant seem to recall which Democrats were calling for him to resign at that time, in fact on the same day……. What a country, what a world .
 

MT15

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Yeah, I did see some R say this was not the time for partisan bickering, but he was definitely in a minority. Nor did I see anyone mention that Trump claimed to have wiped out ISIS, or that these terrorists may have been released from prison by Trump.

I was afraid this would happen, it’s a horrible tragedy. But this is far from Biden’s fault.
 

The moose

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Yeah, I did see some R say this was not the time for partisan bickering, but he was definitely in a minority. Nor did I see anyone mention that Trump claimed to have wiped out ISIS, or that these terrorists may have been released from prison by Trump.

I was afraid this would happen, it’s a horrible tragedy. But this is far from Biden’s fault.
Yep not much talking about how the Trump administration got Baradar let out of prison and did sign a deal with him without the government in charge even invited. Without inviting President Ashraf Ghani they handed the country over to Baradar

That in essence was a done deal by the Trump administration that Biden did not back out of. It is understandable that he didn't because the last four years we backed out of every deal possible.

As a nation we need to keep our word and deals.
 

JRad

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I have to disagree with the last few posts. The buck stops with Biden, he’s the commander in chief. We should have had evacuations done before any withdrawal, not after. Maybe that means not sticking to Trump’s deal, but the potential loss of life is worth it. It definitely means don’t take the Taliban their word they will let us get everyone out.

Ultimately, I think Biden was so laser focused on the what, he ignored the how. This was sloppy, and I thought so even before lives were lost. I don’t think the Taliban push is significantly different under anyone else, but our withdrawal needed to be.

Maybe ISIS-K still attacks under the above circumstances, maybe they don’t. But knowing the Taliban pushing in didn’t enable this would certainly make it less hazy.
 

MT15

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Don’t misunderstand me. I’m not saying Biden is blameless, there were definitely mistakes made, especially the one you mentioned-to defer to the Afghan government’s wishes that evacuations not start sooner than they did.

I just see far too many people eager to blame Biden for everything when the situation was largely set by the Trump administration. Trump essentially gave the Taliban the country, he ordered the release of 5000 prisoners on the word of the Taliban. If Biden had done that, then you could lay almost everything at his feet. But the disastrous foreign policy pursued by Trump dealt the US this hand.
 

samiam5211

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This is not just on Trump or Biden, it is on all of us.

We are terrible at democracy.
 

DaveXA

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I have to disagree with the last few posts. The buck stops with Biden, he’s the commander in chief. We should have had evacuations done before any withdrawal, not after. Maybe that means not sticking to Trump’s deal, but the potential loss of life is worth it. It definitely means don’t take the Taliban their word they will let us get everyone out.

Ultimately, I think Biden was so laser focused on the what, he ignored the how. This was sloppy, and I thought so even before lives were lost. I don’t think the Taliban push is significantly different under anyone else, but our withdrawal needed to be.

Maybe ISIS-K still attacks under the above circumstances, maybe they don’t. But knowing the Taliban pushing in didn’t enable this would certainly make it less hazy.
Pretty much where I'm at as well. Good post.
 

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